The Big and Senseless Mass Shooting Thread

[spacejunk]

It's not reallg what i was getting at - cars and mass car reliance does a lot of harm besides aside from their potential to be used as weapons.
Pollution, oil wars, environmental destruction for the sake of construction of roads, parking etc etc.

This may read like an anti-car rant, but frankly there are too many cars in the world, and in their current form they are unsustainable.
Having spent some time in a town with a great public transport system and walkable accessibility, but living in one of the most car-reliant cities in the world, I have had a pretty great time getting around via tram/train/bus and - when absolutely necessary - friends' cars.
The cost of the current car fetish on humanity is much more significant than the instances of vehicular homicide.

Plus, to their credit, cars have a practical purpose besides killing. As analogies go, it's pretty hyperbolic.

 

[Bardeaux]

To acquire a gun legally you do have to register it and have your fingerprints taken.

No you don't, on both points. Maybe in your state, but not in mine (no fingerprints) and certainly not federally. This is really a major check on the agenda for the "gun control nutters".

But I think you guys are missing my point.

I own two of them. Enlighten me?

 

[nuttynutskin]

Good lord... My whole point is that if someone wants to kill people they're going to find a way to do it with or without a gun. In a lot of cases a bomb would be a lot more effective than a gun for causing the most casualties. Just look at the Oklahoma City bombing.

 

[Bardeaux]

right...20 years ago.

And 9/11 14 years ago.

The main problem isn't mass shootings and massacres, these account for a tiny portion of gun homicides in the US. The mass production and flooding of them into the market place in less than ideally regulated conditions make for very easy access to am illegal weapon.

Why do you think I own two of them? Because every other person also owns two of them. I'm not worried about getting killed by a bomb or a spree shooting. I'm more concerned with desperate people doing desperate things. It's an arms race.

 

[alasdairm]

My whole point is that if someone wants to kill people they're going to find a way to do it with or without a gun.

guns are (relatively) easy to obtain and effective, at close range, for causing a lot of damage, by a single person, quickly. other methods are not.

In a lot of cases a bomb would be a lot more effective than a gun for causing the most casualties. Just look at the Oklahoma City bombing.

then why aren't these people carrying out their crimes with bombs? because guns are...

alasdair

 

[spacejunk]

guns are (relatively) easy to obtain and effective, at close range, for causing a lot of damage, by a single person, quickly. other methods are not.

Recent case in point; the tragic killings in sweden last week.

 

[nuttynutskin]

guns are (relatively) easy to obtain and effective, at close range, for causing a lot of damage, by a single person, quickly. other methods are not.
then why aren't these people carrying out their crimes with bombs? because guns are...

alasdair

Did you not see the article I just posted of the woman who killed 4 people with her car and hurt countless others?

Recent case in point; the tragic killings in sweden last week.

What case in point is that? That you don't have to have a gun to kill people?

 

[alasdairm]

Did you not see the article I just posted of the woman who killed 4 people with her car and hurt countless others?

that was surely a drunk driving incident? how often are murderers - deliberately intending to kill - using cars as their weapon of choice? adam lanza didn't drive a car into sandy hook school did he? james holmes didn't drive a car into a movie theatre in aurora, co did he? eric harris and dylan klebold didn't drive cars into columbine high school did they?

but, you seem to be really pushing this 'guns are no different to cars' point so you agree with all the regulations i suggested in post #338. you've missed/ignored/dodged it a couple of times now.

What case in point is that? That you don't have to have a gun to kill people?

your counterpoint sounds like playing dumb.

sandy hook: 27 dead. 2 injured.
aurora: 12 dead. 58 injured.
columbine: 13 dead. 21 injured.
trollhattan, sweden: 2 dead. 2 injured.

sure, you can kill people with a sword but it's an awful lot faster and easier with a gun.

alasdair

 

[Droppersneck]

Open carry dildo protest: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/10/10/ut-gun-carry-protest/

Students Plan To Open-Carry Dildos Over Controversial Texas Campus Gun Law
Author: Joe Fletcher October 10, 2015 11:31 pm



More than 1,000 people have RSVP’d to attend an unusual protest at the University of Texas. In protest of a law that permits students to carry concealed weapons on campus, students are going to come to class wielding dildos.

After the legislation was signed into law by Texas Greg Abbot last June, protests at the University located in Austin have garnered national attention. The description for the protest’s event page reads:

“On June 1, 2015, Gov. Greg Abbott signed S.B. 11, also known as the ‘campus carry’ law. S.B. 11 provides that license holders may carry a concealed handgun throughout university campuses, starting Aug. 1, 2016. The law gives public universities some discretion to regulate campus carry.”

More than 160 professors at the university signed a letter speaking out against the law. One professor even went as far as to resign over the matter. The organizers of the protest want to point out the fact that while it would be perfectly fine for a student to carry a gun into the classroom, bringing a dildo in would get them in trouble. So now students are calling for people to take up the cry #CocksNotGlocks.

“The State of Texas has decided that it is not at all obnoxious to allow deadly concealed weapons in classrooms, however it DOES have strict rules about free sexual expression, to protect your innocence. You would receive a citation for taking a DILDO to class before you would get in trouble for taking a gun to class. Heaven forbid the penis.”

This protest is absolutely hilarious. American culture is absurd, we glorify violence in our media but vilify sex. This confronts that head on in a creative way. The protest is scheduled to take place on August 24, 2016. The organizers are encouraging everyone to come to the protest, even if they do not attend the University of Texas.

If there was even a single child in the presence of this ignorant protest I'd hope they would file indecency chargers on all offenders. The stupidity is almost painful I don't know what texas's stats are on permit holders that commit crime but it is extremely low I am sure like .01%. Besides a mass shooter is not going to give a shit about permit laws on the campus. Also the fact that there weren't any pocket vaginas in the protest just makes it down right masogynistic.

 

[nuttynutskin]

This all made me think of one comment that I think was on here about giving teachers the option of concealed carrying... Someone said something along the lines of what if a teacher gets mad and shoots the students. I mean really? I really don't get people that think registered concealed carriers are the problem but it's probably futile to try to convince them otherwise.

Besides a mass shooter is not going to give a shit about permit laws on the campus.

Yup. That's what I've been saying all along.

Also the fact that there weren't any pocket vaginas in the protest just makes it down right masogynistic.

Lol

 

[nuttynutskin]

that was surely a drunk driving incident?

It helps to actually read the article...

Blood samples taken shortly after Chambers’ arrest will determine her alcohol toxicology at the time of the deadly collision, though witnesses have suggested she was distraught from losing her job — not drunk.

but, you seem to be really pushing this 'guns are no different to cars' point so you agree with all the regulations i suggested in post #338. you've missed/ignored/dodged it a couple of times now.

I agree with the restrictions that are already in place. Other than that I think it's smart for a new gun owner to take a safety course if they don't have someone else to teach them, but I don't think it should be required.

your counterpoint sounds like playing dumb.

Whatever.

 

[Bagseed]

Switzerland is often being brought up because of it's liberal gun laws but low crime rate. well to put it this way: in middle europe you don't grow up being indoctrinated that everybody is potentially out there to hurt you, rob you, maybe even kill you.
it seems that in American culture, there is a big theme of being afraid of the people around you. this summer a girl from New Jersey was living in our apartement (Vienna, Austria) for 2 months. there is a spot directly in front of our house where people (mainly africans) are dealing drugs. when she was passing them by, she was suspicious all the time, sometimes even imagined that they said something to her. nobody I live with here (both men and women) were ever threatened by those people, and we don't grow up being told that danger might be everywhere.

 

[jammin83]

Yeah^

It's partly our media but they do it from birth on. From LSD stickers, to razor blades in apples on halloween, somebody is trying to hurt/kill you and invade your home. Since 9/11 its gotten worse. I have a syrian name and I get searched EVERY time i'm at the airport. People are just paranoid as fuck all of the time. I really don't think it's going to get any better, probably a lot worse. Seems like cops kill more people than anybody else aside from gang violence. America is such a police state and our justice system is fucked. The culture here is really starting to get to me.

I know...don't like it, don't live here. I think I'd like that.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

it seems that in American culture, there is a big theme of being afraid of the people around you.

While in Laos earlier this year we met two lovely young people from America in Laos. Realizing we were quite well travelled they asked us for our advice on where they might spend the last 2-3 weeks of their vacation, having already been to the 'usual' spots (Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam etc). They were joyful, liberal types. We suggested, having spent six weeks there, Malaysia. Their faces turned to horror and immediately the question came "but isn't that a Muslim country?"

And no, I'm not going to excuse their question as 'understandable'. You wanna get out in the world and discover other cultures, great. But you have no justification to wipe out roughly one third of the worlds countries based on the actions of 26 nutters from Saudi Arabia. It did make me realise the impact 9/11 had in the USA. It doesn't make that impact right or justified.

 

[Bagseed]

unfortunately, xenophobia and racism is (again) on the rise in europe, which you can see in how the EU deals with the refugee crisis, and the success of right wing parties all over the continent. and unfortunately, as much as I use my country as an example of social politics here, Austria isn't an exception to this. the far right party FPÖ is the second strongest in our capitol, all supported by fear and ignorance.
if Europe wants to be what people envision it to be, then we must overcome these tendencies.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Can I just say off topic, I drove through a lot of your country this summer (I was going to Croatia and back) and, having never visited, I thought your country was beyond gorgeous, absolutely stunning.

 

[Droppersneck]

Austria is actually in the process of building a wall. I agree there is a lot of fear in the U.S. This all comes back education, decisive politics, and genuine reasons as we have a very dynamic population. Europe will change a lot in their policies now that they will be tested economically with this mass flow of people. Basically the utopian era has come to a close.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Austria is actually in the process of building a wall.

Not a wall, a fence. And only on a small area which happens to be a major crossing point from Slovenia. The first place I entered Slovenia from Austria was 3000m up a mountain. Trust me, Schengen is under no challenge up there.

 

[Droppersneck]

Mmm that reminds me of a delicious deli I ate at in the small Quebec town of saint agathe called Slovenia. Veal sandwiches were on point. Any way back to my point so in these early stages it is just fences and way to process but once the economic safety net is pressed to the max and the populations speak out I garuantee you the policies will be hardline or "mean spirited"

 

[Bagseed]

believe me, I am not happy with this fence being built. but that's the problem of the social democrats basically being a bitch to the conservatives nowadays. I won't deny that Austria is a very racist country, but there are also developements in the other direction (150.000 people on the streets in early October to speak up against this shit).