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The Big and Senseless Mass Shooting Thread

Considering how this attack took place in California, with it's strict gun laws, shouldn't we wait a bit and figure out how they got their guns before blaming the NRA?

I'm apathetic towards the NRA, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) I don't see anything plausible regulation that would have stopped this attack.

The last two major terror attacks took place in areas with strict gun laws. So, how exactly can anyone say that more gun laws are the answer? I mean yeah, California's gun laws aren't near as strict as France's, but still What can we do? Ban guns entirely? Are we as a society prepared for the backlash that would follow? I myself would have no problem with stricter gun laws, but there are a significant amount of people in this country that would revolt. Even now as we speak gun sales in California are sky rocketing. Mainly due to black Friday sales though, but still. That's a lot of guns.

Also, let's say we do ban guns or even just specific firearms, that would turn millions of gun owners who already own these particular firearms into criminals overnight. How exactly would turning people into criminals help anything? Are we really sure it would be a good idea to start a "war on guns"? Look how the "war on drugs" turned out. Cops meticulously target minority drug users. Do we really want to give them even more incentive to go after minorities? I personally think gun bans would be disastrous. It would create more crime than solve.
 
Oh great, the islam-bashing has infected another thread.

If only we could keep the xenophobic rants in the discussions of their origins, huh?
We all know that prejudice outbreeds rational thought, etc etc etc 8)
How on earth is that Islam bashing?. Do you disagree that one of the reasons behind terrorists acts is to give the sense of strength on their side and weakness on ours for recruitment reasons?.
Even if it was "islam bashing" the largest demographic change in western history, is worth a talk or two in my opinion. Even if every muslim in the western world was the epitome of moderation. It seems dicey putting the future of western civilisation in the hands a religion that shows considerable intolerance to alternative belief systems without much though into the issue. Speaking of intolerance why is always those that speak of diversity and openness are so hostile to anything outside there orthodoxy. I wont make any more comments in here not directly related to gun control.
I have personally never felt the need to own a gun. If I lived in the US that may be different though. I wouldn't be all proud about it though.
 
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The vast, vast majority of your posts on this forum have been anti-inmigration, anti-islam.
You bring the topic of "muslims" into every political discussion you've contributed to.
It's pretty repetitive, tiresome and not convincing anyone that doesn't already agree with you.

Can we keep those rants in the 2 or 3 threads already concerned with those topics, rather than have them pollute every tenuously related subject?
We know you have a bee in your bonnet about people of the islamic faith. You've made it clear.
 
The vast, vast majority of your posts on this forum have been anti-inmigration, anti-islam.
You bring the topic of "muslims" into every political discussion you've contributed to.
It's pretty repetitive, tiresome and not convincing anyone that doesn't already agree with you.

Can we keep those rants in the 2 or 3 threads already concerned with those topics, rather than have them pollute every tenuously related subject?
We know you have a bee in your bonnet about people of the islamic faith. You've made it clear.
This is the second thread so already below your arbitrary figure. Plus it was a discussion about immigration, what else would you like me to write about.
 
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Washington Post said:
MULTAN, Pakistan — Syed Rizwan Farook, Chicago-born, a college graduate working steadily in Southern California, was a quiet and devout man who went in search of a wife. He eventually found one, a woman named Tashfeen Malik who lived in a distant land and had never been to America.

What happened next — and the question of how and why a suburban couple with a new baby decided to become mass murderers — is the subject of a frantic global terrorism investigation that includes Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and San Bernardino, Calif.

The FBI is looking at the dynamic between Farook and Malik, who a couple of years ago did not even know each other but wound up dead on a San Bernardino street, riddled with bullets after they had killed 14 people at a holiday party and wounded 21 others.

Did he lead her down the path of radicalization? Or did she lead him? Did they have direct ties with the Islamic State or other international terrorists, acting as part of an elaborate conspiracy, or were they a freelance operation drawing only inspiration from abroad?

A senior U.S. law enforcement official said one possibility is that Malik was already radicalized before she came to the United States last year as Farook’s new bride.

“Was she the hit, or was he already headed down that road?” said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation.

Farook’s profile is relatively robust. He was 28, born to parents who had immigrated to the United States from Pakistan. He attended high school in San Bernardino and graduated from the state university there. He had a good job as a county health inspector, making sure restaurant counters were clean, food service workers had properly washed their hands, and public pools were safe for swimming. Although he was something of a loner, plenty of people knew him at the office and at the two mosques where he often prayed.

[Remembering the victims in San Bernardino]

Much about the 29-year-old Malik, however, remains a mystery. More than three days after Wednesday’s massacre, no one had surfaced as a friend — or even an acquaintance — of Malik’s in San Bernardino.

She was always veiled, wearing a niqab, a covering that left only her eyes exposed. She did not drive. She was known to stay in the car when her husband prayed at the mosque.

But new details about Malik surfaced Saturday during interviews in Pakistan. She came from a prosperous Pakistani family and grew up in Saudi Arabia. She returned to Multan, Pakistan, about 100 miles from her ancestral village, in 2007, pursuing a pharmacy degree at Bahauddin Zakariya University.

One of her closest friends, Abida Rani, said Malik changed around 2009, suddenly paying more attention to Islamic studies than to pharmacology. Malik would travel across town, nearly every day, to a madrassa, where she would spend her evenings, Rani said. Rani added that she thinks the madrassa belongs to the Wahhabi branch of Sunni Islam, a particularly conservative interpretation of the faith that is widely practiced in Saudi Arabia.

“We were like, ‘What happened to Malik?’ ” said Rani, who attended school with Malik all six years. “She became so religious, so serious and so focused on Islamic teachings, and she lost her interest in her studies.”

While students at the university were busy socializing, Rani said Malik would watch one of Pakistan’s 24-hour Islamic television channels.

She always wore a burqa. She never sat in the front row in class. She would not interact with young men.

“She was conservative but calm,” said Atif Nisar Ahmad, a professor at the school.

During her final year at the university, Malik became so rigid in her conservative Islamic religious beliefs that she refused a staple of college life: getting photographed. When Malik graduated from pharmacy school, she tried to remove all of her pictures from university databases. She collected all of her university identification and library cards and destroyed them.

“I don’t want any pictures without the veil,” Malik said, according to Rani.

Malik’s religious conservatism did not carry any hints of radicalization, though, according to people who knew her. Her conservative attire was not unusual; about half of the female students at the school were fully veiled, according to local residents.

Khalid Janbaz, one of Malik’s pharmacology professors, said Malik never discussed her personal beliefs, even though professors often tried to engage students in freewheeling discussions about science, philosophy and medical ethics.

“She never said to others: ‘You should do this or you should that,’ ” Janbaz said. “I don’t see any evidence how she could move from that into a shooter.”

According to relatives, Malik’s parents moved from the Layyah district of Pakistan’s southern Punjab province to Saudi Arabia 25 to 30 years ago after a family dispute over property. Malik Anwar, who is Malik’s uncle, said the family was estranged from the rest of the family that still lives in the Layyah area.

Some of Anwar’s distant relatives did travel to Saudi Arabia over the years to visit Gulzar Malik, Tashfeen’s father, Anwar said. They reported back over the years that Gulzar Malik had become increasingly religious while in Saudi Arabia.

After Malik graduated in 2013, she moved back to Saudi Arabia. It was apparently there that she connected with Farook, who had been searching for a wife on Internet marriage sites.

They were legally married in the United States in August 2014 in Riverside, Calif., although a lawyer for Farook’s sister said they were married at an earlier ceremony in Saudi Arabia.

Amir Abdul-Jalil, 50, who knew Farook and prayed with him regularly at a San Bernardino mosque, said Farook told him that his family and Malik’s family had arranged the marriage.

“After he got married, I didn’t have the same connection with him,” said Abdul-Jalil, who was visibly upset after learning that Farook had been the shooter in San Bernardino.

Another friend, Rashid Thompson, said Farook had become more distant recently.

“Once he got married, it was just him and his family,” said Thompson, who last saw him at the mosque two months ago.

Farook, Malik, the baby and Farook’s mother lived together in a two-story townhouse on a residential street in Redlands. The interior of the rented apartment, which the landlord opened to reporters on Friday, revealed what appeared to be the elements of an ordinary life: baby formula, books, personal documents. A tub of laundry detergent and a partially eaten plate of food sat on top of an appliance in the kitchen.

What reporters did not see were the items the FBI said it had already taken away, including 4,500 rounds of ammunition, a dozen pipe bombs and materials to make other bombs.

A U.S. official confirmed Saturday that Farook had attempted to reach out to the terrorist groups al-Shabab, which is based in Somalia, and Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Qaeda’s affiliate in Syria. It wasn’t clear when or how Farook made those attempts.

The couple had four guns in their arsenal: two assault rifles and two handguns. The two assault rifles were different brands, but they had been accessorized in a similar way, with identical slings, grips and optics. Husband and wife could use either one interchangeably. That is how the U.S. military trains small units, so that one person can use another’s weapon if necessary.

There are still many uncertainties, but also some hard facts. The couple left the baby with the grandmother at home. They attacked the Inland Regional Center just before 11 a.m. Wednesday, and soon after the shooting, apparently from a mobile phone, Malik went on Facebook and pledged allegiance to the leader of the Islamic State.

About four hours later, Farook and Malik were spotted by police and made their last stand on San Bernardino Avenue, firing from their SUV. They were surrounded by nearly two dozen officers.

At some point, Farook made a dash for it but reached only the far curb of the street before he fell to the pavement. Malik stayed in the SUV. Between them, they fired off 76 rounds. Police fired 380.

Their baby is in the custody of child protective services. A hearing is scheduled for Monday.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fr...-malik/ar-AAg4eEP?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout
 
Why is the United States' media or at least that last article acting as though the guy involved in the San Bernardino attacks was just your normal average American and his wife was not extremist either? When obviously they were.
 
They will have to be. A welfare state only can exist when everyone feels a part of it. A predominant sense of give and taken in the culture. A large percentage of people entering with only an interest in what they can take. Also an unfortunate increase in indigenous Europeans with a similar mindset.....and of course it will fall apart.

Exactly and all of these refugeesin large bring very little to the table as far as skill sets go. Even after only eight years of far left ideas being pushed, massive expansions of government, and further reductions in freedom America is yet again swinging back to the right. The cycle is disheartening to say the least..
 
Why is the United States' media or at least that last article acting as though the guy involved in the San Bernardino attacks was just your normal average American and his wife was not extremist either? When obviously they were.

Our president wont even say the word terrorism anymore. It is not politically correct to call a spade and spade if it is what is considered to be a marginalized group. Reminds me of the 1950s-80s Russia in its design of thought process.
 
Why is the United States' media or at least that last article acting as though the guy involved in the San Bernardino attacks was just your normal average American and his wife was not extremist either? When obviously they were.

Everywhere I look the media just talks about an Islamic terrorist and his Pakistani wife who swore an oath to ISIS a week before the attacks, over and over again on every network and article. I'm not sure where you get your media.

Our president wont even say the word terrorism anymore. It is not politically correct to call a spade and spade if it is what is considered to be a marginalized group. Reminds me of the 1950s-80s Russia in its design of thought process.

Yea, it's just like Soviet Russia. Isn't that what your guns are for, to prevent that from happening? Less talk, more fighting tyranny imo

The president seems to address specific terrorist organizations rather than umbrella terrorist activity. I don't think this is necessarily the right thing to do, but it's what he's doing.
 
Our president wont even say the word terrorism anymore. It is not politically correct to call a spade and spade if it is what is considered to be a marginalized group. Reminds me of the 1950s-80s Russia in its design of thought process.
Do you remember a time before you were born in a place you have never been too? Impressive.

I thought it was the "land of the free"?
Can i still call a spade a spade? I call it a troll 8)
 
This is a question for psychologists to answer I think. My sociological research has holds in it.

What makes a rampage killer tick?

i find it totally implausible that ANY couple with a 6 month old baby would decide to suicide by crazy rampage.
 
It is astonishing that people spend 4 to 7 years of their life at higher education. Yet all it seems to produce is a cloned mindset without an original thought of their own.
 
Exactly and all of these refugeesin large bring very little to the table as far as skill sets go. Even after only eight years of far left ideas being pushed, massive expansions of government, and further reductions in freedom America is yet again swinging back to the right. The cycle is disheartening to say the least..

What constitutes these massive expansions of government, and what freedoms were lost?
 
...massive expansions of government
really?

when obama took office in january 2009, the federal government employed 2.792 million people. by august 2014, that number had dropped to 2.714 million. (source: newrepublic.com)

hardly a huge drop but by no definition a "massive expansion". so please define this massive expansion?

putting it in context, here's how obama's presidency compares in terms of number of jobs in the public sector:

e1507bfc2ea0deec4bf115f898a33ca85adea0c8.jpeg


increases under reagan, both gw bush and ghb bush and clinton. a decrease under obama.

related reading: The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

alasdair
 
The freedom to live in this country without being taxed 800 dollars for not having/ affording insurance. The freedom to keep the doctor you so choose, etcetera

None of this would have been a problem had democrats jumped on board with the single payer option.

Nevertheless, my favorite line from the last dem debate was "My tax plan won't be quite as progressive as that socialist Eisenhower's" - Sanders
 
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