The April getting/staying sober thread vs Moonwalking ( backward steps )

[Serotonin101]

Congrats RX I know how hard it is battling opi addiction. Stay strong

 

[Timber]

Okay, my GP, neuro, rheumatologist, or anyone else in the process is going to help me with the fatigue or I am going to reach across the table and ... Lets just say, I've hit the end of my rope with that issue. Its not addiction or even withdrawal related, its just a consequence of who knows what, most likely a leftover from being severely ill that has been going on for more than 2 years. I'm just no longer willing to pay the costs to my life to have it be, and am so beyond it today that I am ready to snap. If I have to keep a book opened with a post-it note that says "Do not kill your physician" during those appointments, I will do it. Emotionally though -- Yeah...

I did a lot of soul searching on that issue. While morphine used to dull out the emotional edge of it: I'm not annoyed with anyone I shouldn't be or don't have a legit reason to be, I'm angry with anyone I shouldn't be or don't have a legit reason to be. I maybe feel it a minor bit more acutely, but I should be feeling it more. I've reached a point I can no longer hold off the consequences for more than a brief period of time. Something has to change, and damnit, it will change.

Still free of opioids 23 days later, even though the automatic refill fairy dropped off another box of them at my doorstep along with the few remaining medicines I do actually take. They will likely drop off another box of them 3 weeks from now even if I tell them not to. The whole lot just went into the safe with the rest of them. Not that I didn't pause for a minute before doing that. When I quit I quit with two huge bottles of everything in front me as a reminder that I didn't want to have to dig into a bottle every 4 or 8 hours. I stuck those in the safe a few days ago, and let my wife keep the combo to it. Its nothing I couldn't open if I truly wanted, but keeping them on my desk no longer serves a purpose -- even if my desk is 60 miles from where I lay my head most of the week.

I actually took a little time at home today, and it wasn't too bad. I couldn't stay, but it was nice to actually have dinner at home for a change, play with my collie, and be at home. The cost for lightening my load is obscene, but its sorely needed.

 

[RedLeader]

^ Timber, I hope you realise how big of a victory that was for you. If the heroin fairy came to my door, I would be FUCKED. What you did is the kind of thing that a lot of people say they would do, but only a small fraction actually really would. But you did it, and that right there is telling of just how strong your resolve to be clean is. Proud of you.

I would try and have your wife lock it all up in a safe deposit box somewhere, though, just in case. Or have her check the safe daily to keep you accountable. I know most of my relapses happen during that one hour in the week when I just can't keep it together.

 

[neversickanymore]

@ timber.. limbic system controls fatigue, sorry it probably is part of the addiction,, which means it will get better.. get moving it helped loads with my fatigue, yeah it was really really hard for me to do.. it goes away completely.

 

[Zwanya]

30 days today

Hi everyone,

I'm new to BL as a user, but I've been a reader for a long time. I have tremendous respect for all of you and your motivation to live life in a healthier way.

I have had a massive pain killer addiction for the last 12 years, and have been on subutex for the last year and a half. After being diagnosed with ptsd from a trauma that happened in September, I've been put on an antidepressant (prozac) and am taking around 10 different mineral, amino acid, and herbal supplements to help me recover. So I decided that alcohol, medicinal marijuana, and all other substances had to go in order to make room for the medication to work.

I have been using medical ganja regularly for about 15 years (most of my adult life) so this hasn't been easy. Still on subutex so I don't consider myself 100% "clean," but certainly sober. It is 3:40 in the morning here in Oakland. I'm wide awake and have been since I got in bed at 11. I have had insomnia on and off since I quit 30 days ago. But aside from the sleep issues, I feel better and more present with every passing day. These are some techniques I've found to be helpful in battling cravings and feeling better:

1. Exercise. This has been the single best deterrent from using that I've found. I just make myself do 30 minutes a day. Even just jumping rope or doing crunches. The natural endorphins feel better than advil and tylenol for headache/CP, and I also am distracting myself while I do it. Switching up my workouts helps too: I do yoga, climb, walk, surf, jog....if its outside I feel even better. Sunshine always helps.

2. Sober friends. I can't do it alone: if I could, I would have already. Having a few friends, not all of them, but 3 or 4 friends who I can trust and who are also substance free has been key for me. Meetings help too.

3. Meditation. For me, this means simply focusing on my breath, and on the present moment without judging myself or my thoughts. I do this sitting in a comfortable, quiet place for as long as I can. It brings serenity and calm, but it also allows me to watch as my crazy, withdrawing brain sends thoughts my way. I let them pass and keep breathing.

4. Nature. I live near lakes, mountains, the pacific ocean, and many redwood forests. i make sure that I spend a day each weekend getting out of the city. I'll hop on my bike or drive to the forest, hike a trail, write in my journal, and go on my way. For me, it is as grounding and peaceful to just sit in nature as it is to do yoga.

Just my experience so far. I am glad that this and last month's threads exist. We are going to be okay. Thanks for inspiring me to work even harder for the next 30 days.

 

[Black Rabbit of Inle]

Hi Zwanya,

Congrats on 30 days That's great news. It was a good decision to give up everything in order to get the most out of your medication. The insomnia should diminish the longer you go without any substances, although if it doesn't seem to be getting any better, talk to your GP, as it is a common side effect of both Subutex and Prozac.

 

[Zwanya]

Thank you, Re-distributed.

That's good advice about talking to my doc if my insomnia persists. I have been weary of mixing subs with anti-depressants, but I have no choice in the matter at this point.

I finally got to sleep from 5 to 8 am. I woke up drenched in sweat. I'll take it. Anything to get the toxins out quickly. Does anybody have any advice on specific techniques/herbs for detoxing? I've got dandelion root, milk thistle and grape seed oil for my liver.

 

[helium-4]

I just lost my job because of some straight bul shit at work. I worked my ass off, and got fired because some redneck cunt went off like a faggot to get my fired. I fucking busted my ass at this job. I just wanna get high so bad., I wanna get fuckedup I may have some blues or hopefully opana coming my way. well see.

 

[neversickanymore]

Okay, my GP, neuro, rheumatologist, or anyone else in the process is going to help me with the fatigue or I am going to reach across the table and ... Lets just say, I've hit the end of my rope with that issue. Its not addiction or even withdrawal related, its just a consequence of who knows what, most likely a leftover from being severely ill that has been going on for more than 2 years. I'm just no longer willing to pay the costs to my life to have it be, and am so beyond it today that I am ready to snap. If I have to keep a book opened with a post-it note that says "Do not kill your physician" during those appointments, I will do it. Emotionally though -- Yeah...

I did a lot of soul searching on that issue. While morphine used to dull out the emotional edge of it: I'm not annoyed with anyone I shouldn't be or don't have a legit reason to be, I'm angry with anyone I shouldn't be or don't have a legit reason to be. I maybe feel it a minor bit more acutely, but I should be feeling it more. I've reached a point I can no longer hold off the consequences for more than a brief period of time. Something has to change, and damnit, it will change.

Still free of opioids 23 days later, even though the automatic refill fairy dropped off another box of them at my doorstep along with the few remaining medicines I do actually take. They will likely drop off another box of them 3 weeks from now even if I tell them not to. The whole lot just went into the safe with the rest of them. Not that I didn't pause for a minute before doing that. When I quit I quit with two huge bottles of everything in front me as a reminder that I didn't want to have to dig into a bottle every 4 or 8 hours. I stuck those in the safe a few days ago, and let my wife keep the combo to it. Its nothing I couldn't open if I truly wanted, but keeping them on my desk no longer serves a purpose -- even if my desk is 60 miles from where I lay my head most of the week.

I actually took a little time at home today, and it wasn't too bad. I couldn't stay, but it was nice to actually have dinner at home for a change, play with my collie, and be at home. The cost for lightening my load is obscene, but its sorely needed.

Hey timber I thought of something that may help you allot... you need to have your testosterone levels checked.. cronic opiat use can cause natural testosterone to go to almost 0 I got mine checked rite away and it was almost zero.. I got on testosterone replacement therapy and my fatigue almost vanished..

"They come in saying they feel excessively fatigued, weaker, depressed, and that they have lost their sex drive -- all common symptoms of a drop in testosterone." http://men.webmd.com/features/low-testosterone-explained-how-do-you-know-when-levels-are-too-low

http://www.everydayhealth.com/sexua...0-symptoms-of-low-testosterone.aspx#/slide-10

Also look at opiate abuse and testosterone levels.. you also may want to check how long it takes testosterone levels to rebound AND SIDE EFFECTS of testosterone therapy, I believe on is that it makes you almost sterile.. but I'm not planning on having more kids at this exact moment and I really feel great.. maybe the low testosterone is a major driving force in opiate paws? any way I IM it because if you use the gell you put females in your life at considerable risk, but since I am already a diabetic I have had to learn how to deal with cravings and heavy triggers.. I crush them.. Ha hope this helps.

Sorry about the job cloudy.. man think about if you want to deal with this buy gettn all laid back, going to erase all that you did??

 

[Serotonin101]

^^ so I assume you are on trt or hrt still? If so how is it working out and how did you go about pursuing it?

 

[RedLeader]

zwanya: Welcome to the forum. You sound like a really good person making an honest effort at this.

As for detoxing, saunas have often helped me feel rejuvenated. Spray some eucalyptus oil and just lay back and try and meditate. If it's painful at first, do 5 minutes in, 5 out over the course of an hour. This can be helpful for sleep as well.

 

[neversickanymore]

^^ so I assume you are on trt or hrt still? If so how is it working out and how did you go about pursuing it?

Yes am still on it.. and in hind sight it could be making a big difference in the addiction.. but for sure it made a immediate difference for me. I am a more mood altering, and i guess given the difference that this could have made, It could be considered mood altering, but I guess I feel, if it did, return my mood to allot more normal. I take it just as prescribed,but i definitely don't need to look at the calender to know when to take it, I will have to pay attention to addict like syptoms in the last three or four days before redose. taken Im it is given every two weeks, and I DEFINITELY experience more frustration, fatigue, and a a certain low level depression as well as a discontent with life at the end of the cycle. I have a friend who has also mentioned the same thing with out any comment buy me.

I see a very good internist, the same doctor that prescribed me the opiates and is aware of my addiction now. He was the one that suggested it, apparently this is something that is so common with chronic opiate use that he was aware if not expecting it. I have experienced no compulsion towards using more or doing anything crazy like iving it... but I also have had no use or problems with steroids before and are unaware of there DS. the one thing with you tonin101 is that you are relatively young and may or may not want a family at some point soon, so I would DEFINITELY check into it but research the possible negatives to make an informed decision. The process just involves asking a dr for a blood draw and test for testosterone, resultant levels indicate where you are and whether you could use trt.

as I said I do not want a child at this point so at least that the effect of low sperm count is is almost desirable.. I am in the upper quarter quadrant of normal test level, I have been on it for eight months, I have no desire to abuse it for any reason, I have put on a great deal of muscle and feel a difference between day three after administration compared to the end, yeah im pretty ripped, but i have a pretty physical job at the moment and am working out light three times a week. to tell you the truth I love it. i have not noticed or heard of, as my woman knows i'm on it, shes a x junky with ten years, well i guess not clean, she stays away from EDIT: yeah not important . so i feel totally comfortable talking and asking her to look for changes in behavior, she has seen none. Little increase in labito a couple days after administration and a little thickening of facial hair.. yeah so far its all good..

 

[Timber]

Hey timber I thought of something that may help you allot... you need to have your testosterone levels checked.. cronic opiat use can cause natural testosterone to go to almost 0 I got mine checked rite away and it was almost zero.. I got on testosterone replacement therapy and my fatigue almost vanished..

"They come in saying they feel excessively fatigued, weaker, depressed, and that they have lost their sex drive -- all common symptoms of a drop in testosterone." http://men.webmd.com/features/low-testosterone-explained-how-do-you-know-when-levels-are-too-low

http://www.everydayhealth.com/sexua...0-symptoms-of-low-testosterone.aspx#/slide-10

Also look at opiate abuse and testosterone levels.. you also may want to check how long it takes testosterone levels to rebound AND SIDE EFFECTS of testosterone therapy, I believe on is that it makes you almost sterile.. but I'm not planning on having more kids at this exact moment and I really feel great.. maybe the low testosterone is a major driving force in opiate paws? any way I IM it because if you use the gell you put females in your life at considerable risk, but since I am already a diabetic I have had to learn how to deal with cravings and heavy triggers.. I crush them.. Ha hope this helps.

Testosterone level is certainly worth a look. Other than fighting off some anemia (its not severe enough to account for this, and is more recent) I've had about every other hormone or thing I can reasonably pry the pen of my physicians to check. It is quite annoying at this point. It wont stop me from asking them to try a spaghetti approach, because I don't have the luxury of time to play with if that comes back normal or borderline (which is likely). My sex drive has been pretty darn dead, which is the opposite of my last quit. Then again, my relationship with my beloved isn't exactly on fire at the moment either, and this likely contributes.

 

[Darksidesam]

<snip: Your second sentence covers why>

This is a good thing, a very good thing indeed. I like bluelight a lot however i do agree with some people sometimes who say they can find it triggering, but not anymore, as there is now this place here,,

i keep abusing valium and i was abusing codeine for a while , not much only 60mg - 90mg sometimes 120mg every 2-3 days
...need to exercise more, i smoke weed but i mostly vaporize it, i am able to function later after smoking it, i am tolerant to it in that sense.

 

[Zwanya]

Redleader: Thank you for the encouragement and the welcome.

I love saunas too, that's a great idea. I have some experience with hot yoga, but I hadn't yet thought of your idea of meditating in the heat with eucalyptus. Cheers.

 

[ad lib]

My cravings are so intense

 

[neversickanymore]

^^ RX.. man think of how good you have been feeling lately, yeah if you go back you will feel ok for a week or so, then you will go back to being a slave to the drug and will use the drug and not even feel as good as you do 90% of the time now.. In other words in a week you will need the drug to feel worse than you do most of the time now.. and you will realize that with in a couple of days of being back out.. then you will have to plod down the same path out of hell you already passed through.. you got this RX.. hold on.. I know you have tons of support here at BL.. think about the real world.. have anything set up there?? Thanks for reaching out.. you know the BL and DS mods will support you.. There isn't anything left there.. you don't have to go back to make sure, just take my word for it.. its over

 

[RedLeader]

My cravings are so intense

You can always get high tomorrow.

I feel ya, though. I have had a string of bad events today and have a fat tax return coming to me. I have had a few 30 second fantasies. But ya, just heard a friend of mine relapsed and she kept telling me how it wasn't worth it and what she thought would be a half hour of effort turned into like five hours in the hood chasing after it (and then it was garbage). Take the money you would spend on it and instead buy a nice dinner or a new outfit. When the craving eases up, which it will, you will be proud of yourself. You ain't alone, it is extremely difficult. But not nearly as hard as the first day off, right?

nsa: Didn't forget about the PM...I will try and reply later.

 

[oxyschottin]

man im just having the worst time clean, its been 2 n a half weeks since my last dose of fent or hydromorphone. I went thru 7 days of hell taking all the otc and prescription meds i could to feel better. i still feel like shit, ive been taking tramadol to help cuz i have chills costinantly cant sleep dont enjoy a damn thing all day and i told my doc about my abuse and now i cant even get my damn ambien. I feel like im failing. im taking multivitamans emergen cy, clonidine and tramadol ( between 200-400) usually less and it doesnt help at all. my legs are restless. im almost feel worse than when i quit. im losing my mind, my family wont let me seek any other drugs such as benzos because they are afraid i will abuse them and i just want to get loaded but i know i cant. i dont know if i should even be taking the tramadol but because of my tolerance i dont even notice it just feel like i cant function without something on those receptors. i feel lost. i feel like i should have started to feel better. worst of all its my birthday tomorrow. what a way to spend it feeling like this. i just want these chills to go away and to go asleep. and its ignorant as hell but i dont see its fair. fuck fuck fuck fuck

 

[soundsystem00]

man im just having the worst time clean, its been 2 n a half weeks since my last dose of fent or hydromorphone. I went thru 7 days of hell taking all the otc and prescription meds i could to feel better. i still feel like shit, ive been taking tramadol to help cuz i have chills costinantly cant sleep dont enjoy a damn thing all day and i told my doc about my abuse and now i cant even get my damn ambien. I feel like im failing. im taking multivitamans emergen cy, clonidine and tramadol ( between 200-400) usually less and it doesnt help at all. my legs are restless. im almost feel worse than when i quit. im losing my mind, my family wont let me seek any other drugs such as benzos because they are afraid i will abuse them and i just want to get loaded but i know i cant. i dont know if i should even be taking the tramadol but because of my tolerance i dont even notice it just feel like i cant function without something on those receptors. i feel lost. i feel like i should have started to feel better. worst of all its my birthday tomorrow. what a way to spend it feeling like this. i just want these chills to go away and to go asleep. and its ignorant as hell but i dont see its fair. fuck fuck fuck fuck

Tell your family at your birthday that you want to go to a nice rehab for your birthday.

That would be a good birthday present.. Sobriety.. For real.

Don't take any other opiates. Detox cold turkey. It will only last a week or so, and they'll give you benzos temporarily.

There's a light at the end if the tunnel. Remember this post and the one you posted to remind you of the hardships.