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The afterlife...

Foreigner said:
So what everyone else experiences and feels is just a fantasy, but what you believe is real? Sounds like a lot of certitude going on there to me.

Billions of people... just coping and nothing else. There is literally no other layer to their experience, it's just a coping mechanism.

Do you know how ignorant you sound?



You can't know that for sure and if you tell yourself otherwise you're delusional. There's no functional difference between something having never happened and you simply forgetting it happened. A lot of faiths believe in the veil of forgetting, which serves many functions. Some people who have had NDEs have had momentary glimpses beyond this veil, whether "real" or not.

I don't live in a world of certainty like you do. I have some beliefs but they are changeable.

Your world must be very comfortable and secure.
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You can't forget something that never happened ffs. You didn't have a brain or consciousness. You literally did not exist in any sense of the word. That's scientific FACT, not my personal opinion.
 
It's an opinion. Science doesn't do facts.

What came before the big bang? Something? Nothing? Science tends to fall silent on this sense we can't test it.

Consciousness and its nature has similar problems.

Consider as a possibility that the universe is cyclical. And time is infinite. Over a long enough time line, every possible thing that could happen will.

Therefore you could have lived this life before. You in every way in which you are now, separated only by time and space.

Is that reality? Unknown.
For that matter what even is "you". That's a philosophical question outside of the ability to test scientifically.

It's an opinion.
 
These aren't unknownable questions though they have been solved for thousands of years by shamans and the vedas who went within to travel the infinite fractal reality. Time, big bang, physics etc all these are effects and not causes. The unchanging primordial eternal source is infinite consciousness. The nature of nothingness means its infinite many mathematician PHDs have written theories on the empty space or nothingness. A nothing is still something it is the negative of something.

im not going to hold someone down and force a pipe of 5-meo dmt into their mouth to understand existence but for the people so sure of their ways what scares you from doing this? Does it scare you that everything you believe in is false and wrong and you don't want to realize you are just a speck of dust less important than the steaming dogshit on the sidewalk? Meditation is science its a way of knowing what is within what is the self and realization of your true unchanging being under the farce and masks where wear of our egos to nagiatve the physical realm.

Dying is a release to another dimension beyond this world a learning experince the wheel of existence spins around in a eternal cycle all things change the only unchanging thing is the source or the true-self the ultimate reality which gave arise to everything.
 
How many people have shamans sent to the moon?

EDIT: sigh, so that was a needlessly dismissive comment. What I'm saying here is that I don't trust this stuff because it always seems to turn out that everything promoted in the way of supernatural or some grand great truth, is always by its nature scientifically untestable.

Given sciences track record at shaping the world and understanding things that were previously not understood, in ways that can be relied upon. I trust science as the method to study the universe.
 
How many people have nasa sent to other dimensions and met aliens?

True travel is within the paths of inner space to outerspace.

Science is way of understanding our physical reality but comes up short on many questions. As a chemist the nature is a miracle and intelligent design is without a doubt real. A natural scientist who does not become a mystic was never a natural scientist. Anybody can have this experince and the experinces are proven in method and in labs.

Science is a small glimpse to understanding how the world works. Meditation and the vedas is a science of the mind understanding beyond the veil of our eyes how reality truly operates and works. This is what psychonautics is about traveling and critically assessing the information to understand reality on a deeper level. Final truth is death only then will you truly be free on the limitations of our existence and move onto another adventure and thus continue to seeker a deeper understanding of reality til the ultimate realization is reached.
 
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Let me put this another way.

If you could get a group of say 50 people. Give them all drugs, and have them find a way to communicate with each other in their travels to other dimensions or whatever. That would be proof.

Without that, you're just believing it because your senses showed you it. And we already know our senses are crap at objective perception. Even with the most basic mundane stuff.

Ultimately, all belief is a choice. But I feel it's a far more valid choice to trust what multiple people can see through scientific observation. This kinda stuff fails that standard.

That's why I don't believe. But if you believe, that's fine. I'm not asking you to stop believing. Just to try and understand why some of us don't.
 
That has already been done in every ayahusca circle ever. I have been removed from this universe and traveled to the same realms as friends while on high dose acid cannabis and DMT all together.

Anybody can experience this and then realize what it truly is. I know that if somebody who hasent broke on DMT would never even being to understand the experince or why people become believers in something greater you just have to do it yourself.

All the same answers have been reported by ten and millions of peoples over human history and written in books older than the bible.

In DMT you no longer have senses or the human experience same with salvia its like just one mega sense its just experience without filters.

I have proof of NDEs giving access to unknowable information. Some people have encountered maria sabina spirit while on very heavy mushroom trips without even knowing about her.

The true power of LSD discovered by communes of people all dosing 500 ug are what anybody who hasent experinced it for themselves would never believe.

I was never a believer in most things til i went their and saw it for myself.
 
Just having a bunch of people do it and compare their observations is NOT scientific.

You have to separate them for the duration of the experience. Debrief them separately. Give them directions of what to communicate.

You could do this, but I suspect it'll turn out to show nothing just like every time science tries to establish statistical significance of stuff like this. Before long someone will suggest that the nature of what it is prevents any scientific study. Just like with ghosts or telepathy or anything else like this.

The question here is if the experiences reflect something that exists in a more literal way. People dream, are the contents of dreams literally happening somewhere? I mean you can experience them and they seem real at the time.

So we know the mind is capable of doing this kinda stuff already. That doesn't prove it's actually real beyond what's in your mind.
 
Separate them during the experince doesn't work like that. Its about sitting together and blasting off out of body if you have see people in these states they are paralysed in trances blank stares into infinity not a single world coming out of them once they come back you could seperate them and ask them what happen and then compare. Rick strassman has tried to prove these things. The government wont fund studies like this. I would be sign up and prove it myself if they did allow such a study.

I also know there are many traps in the experince this is why it takes years to critically assesss these trans personal experiences to dig deep and understand it all.
 
TripSitterNZ said:
That has already been done in every ayahusca circle ever. I have been removed from this universe and traveled to the same realms as friends while on high dose acid cannabis and DMT all together.

Anybody can experience this and then realize what it truly is. I know that if somebody who hasent broke on DMT would never even being to understand the experince or why people become believers in something greater you just have to do it yourself.

All the same answers have been reported by ten and millions of peoples over human history and written in books older than the bible.

In DMT you no longer have senses or the human experience same with salvia its like just one mega sense its just experience without filters.

I have proof of NDEs giving access to unknowable information. Some people have encountered maria sabina spirit while on very heavy mushroom trips without even knowing about her.

The true power of LSD discovered by communes of people all dosing 500 ug are what anybody who hasent experinced it for themselves would never believe.

I was never a believer in most things til i went their and saw it for myself.
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Something of interest to you.

www.gaia.com

People Meet Similar Entities on DMT, Scientists Want to Know More | Gaia

People have strikingly similar experiences under the influence of DMT, describing analogous entities and places they travel to. Now, a doctor at Johns Hopkins is asking for people to tell him about their experiences to find out more.
www.gaia.com www.gaia.com
 
TripSitterNZ said:
These aren't unknownable questions though they have been solved for thousands of years by shamans and the vedas who went within to travel the infinite fractal reality. Time, big bang, physics etc all these are effects and not causes. The unchanging primordial eternal source is infinite consciousness. The nature of nothingness means its infinite many mathematician PHDs have written theories on the empty space or nothingness. A nothing is still something it is the negative of something.

im not going to hold someone down and force a pipe of 5-meo dmt into their mouth to understand existence but for the people so sure of their ways what scares you from doing this? Does it scare you that everything you believe in is false and wrong and you don't want to realize you are just a speck of dust less important than the steaming dogshit on the sidewalk? Meditation is science its a way of knowing what is within what is the self and realization of your true unchanging being under the farce and masks where wear of our egos to nagiatve the physical realm.

Dying is a release to another dimension beyond this world a learning experince the wheel of existence spins around in a eternal cycle all things change the only unchanging thing is the source or the true-self the ultimate reality which gave arise to everything.
Click to expand...
Have you ever studied Hindu metaphysics? Or Buddhist metaphysics? My Hindu friends who by their own admission are not that religious say that Buddhism is a branch or off-shoot of Hinduism, and they become very confused or laugh when I told them how some 'buddhists' in the Western world say that Buddhism and Buddhists are all atheist.
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
Have you ever studied Hindu metaphysics? Or Buddhist metaphysics? My Hindu friends who by their own admission are not that religious say that Buddhism is a branch or off-shoot of Hinduism, and they become very confused or laugh when I told them how some 'buddhists' in the Western world say that Buddhism and Buddhists are all atheist.
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i have many books on Buddhism and Hinduism. buddah was a reformist among the times where spiritual practice consisted of just starving yourself etc and put forward the notion of the middle path. They both have the same goals self-realization via whatever path they follow. Hinduism itself has many offshoots Buddhisms foundations is in hinduism but they reject the notion of a underlying self which is sets them apart. Hinduism details each path of yoga. Jesus drawed on hinduisms path of yoga unconditional love and devotion. While buddhists could seem to draw on the path of meditation.

The upanishads and the gita should be read by everyone.
 
Im sure we all instantly wash our hands of all of our vices in this life. Vices are the result of our weaknesses and denial and fear, and failure to get ultimately real but ourselves and do what is best pass and others around in life which is what we are here to learn today so we will not be feeling any attachment two or missing our advice is once we pass quite the opposite we will say my god how ridiculous and weak and silly and pathetic that was I've learnt from that and moved on I won't be doing that again but thank god for those lessons and that lifetime because now I realise xxx blah blah.

I certainy, do t mean we regret them.there are no regrets when you are temporarily Awakened to the eternity of all things.

Trivial mortal sentiments we'll go right out of the window in place of true peace and understanding.

Until you suddenly find yourself to be frog in the Amazon rainforest,(possibly, possibly not. I think I would rather be that frog than a fish in our local dirty polluted river or one of the ducks or seagulls flying back and forth across the river in search of bread donations all day long.)

But hey, WHO REALLY knows? Not me, I just try and keep my mind open to every possibility but I do struggle to think that there is no such thing as reincarnation.
 
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ChemicallyEnhanced said:
You can't forget something that never happened ffs. You didn't have a brain or consciousness. You literally did not exist in any sense of the word. That's scientific FACT, not my personal opinion.
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It's actually not a scientific fact that consciousness cannot pre-date birth. It's an area that science is not qualified to examine because consciousness is non-material and science can only concern itself with materially examinable things. Science actually has no claim on this either way.

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that consciousness can possibly exist separately from the body. The NDE and OBE research shows this -- thousands of cases. In the 60's and 70's Russia even did formal scientific investigations on this. Again, because science can't totally qualify this, the results are inconclusive. It's not like the Russians were able to say for sure... but there is reason to question.

If (big if) consciousness can act separately and on its own, then that calls into your question that a brain is needed for there to be conscious existence.

It is 100% your personal opinion. Don't pass the buck, just own it. There's nothing wrong with your opinion, but your overriding certitude and hubris are annoying. You can't possibly know for sure, no one can. And it's not like those of us questioning are just randomly doing so for no good reason... there are so many case reports out there, enough to form entire paranormal research institutions on.
 
Foreigner said:
It's actually not a scientific fact that consciousness cannot pre-date birth. It's an area that science is not qualified to examine because consciousness is non-material and science can only concern itself with materially examinable things. Science actually has no claim on this either way.

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that consciousness can possibly exist separately from the body. The NDE and OBE research shows this -- thousands of cases. In the 60's and 70's Russia even did formal scientific investigations on this. Again, because science can't totally qualify this, the results are inconclusive. It's not like the Russians were able to say for sure... but there is reason to question.

If (big if) consciousness can act separately and on its own, then that calls into your question that a brain is needed for there to be conscious existence.

It is 100% your personal opinion. Don't pass the buck, just own it. There's nothing wrong with your opinion, but your overriding certitude and hubris are annoying. You can't possibly know for sure, no one can.
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It is definitely 100% fact that you cannot have consciousness without a central nervous system.
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
It is definitely 100% fact that you cannot have consciousness without a central nervous system.
Click to expand...
its not a fact and what is consciouness? No a single person on earth has even proven the question of what is consciousness and where is it located?

Its located everywhere considering reality needs a observer to be observed or else the system doesnt work. Atoms are conscious everything is this universe built from the ground up is intelligent in the way it works.
 
I dont know,nobody does. I don't think I've ever experienced complete ego death on psychedelics and if I have I can't remember. I think that's the whole point, like when you die.

I would like to think that identity dies and we merge with everything that is as energy. Maybe that energy manifests into substance once again and we're reborn back into this realm or another. We leave everything behind including vices.

Whilst we're here in this plane we procreate and I think this is were vices are passed down. I believe scientifically that they have found evidence of this,that we are predisposed genetically to pass down addictive behaviours. I think that's why some people love some drugs over others,they fit like a glove.

Maybe it's not an after life but a continuation of the life force that is present throughout everything. It just evolves.
 
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