The Absolute dissolution of identity in Psychedelics its an energetic state and it can definitely be triggered 'naturally'

[ItsclearlyFake]

Have you had those moments tripping where the visuals and physical euphoria its so intense that even the notion or feeling of having a body (or you being someone inside a body) completely disappears, and there is a subtle but strangely clear intense feeling of just pure bliss-peace? That reality its experiencing itself to itself but you are no longer there?

I have done many drugs but nothing came close to what of my first psychedelics experiences with LSD when I was in my early twenties. Until not long ago I believed that state was a product of Psychedelic and unique to those class of drugs.

However, I have started recently to experience the same moments of experience with 'sober' methods. Precisely, while holding a mudra (its a hand posture on the Yogic sciences). When holding this mudra, if previous spiritual practice has been done and certain energetic recognition in your body has been developed, one can 'annihilate' almost instantly the feeling of separation and even existence, leaving only your surroundings 'alive', if that makes sense.

This state of mind, which is really incorrect to call it like it, because its an energetic state in which its realized your surroundings are 'your body', its absolutely the most intense absolutely beautiful most powerful state there has been ever realized. It feels like God looking at his creation, absolutely untouchable, just basking in how reality is by itself, in a ever ending act of Love within itself.

 

[Foreigner]

The dissolution of ego/identity leading to bliss is really just the ground level reality. When everything else ceases, there is just the ground. It can't be "peeled back" further. In Vedanta this bliss is called Ananda. It isn't an experience, it's the natural state or the ground state of Satcitananda ("existence, consciousness, bliss"). It's what lights up the mind-body, and once the mind is lit up, it can project an ego which is in the realm of experience. It becomes the personality that we mistakenly think is the "experiencer". The ego then perceives that bliss is just another experience and goes about seeking to repeat the experience, through various idle pursuits. The bliss, however, is the ground state of reality. It's the rock bottom. It is the absence of experience. Because ego is in the experience realm, it can never truly understand this, so it tries to "find the bliss" through things like drugs, sex, marriage, having a family, religion, whatever. It can't see or understand that the experience of bliss is actually being lit up by bliss, which is its source. In other words, if you think an experience is giving you bliss, it's actually just cutting through all the window dressing to the bedrock of reality, which is existence/consciousness/bliss. Like when people say "shit gets real", they are awakening to the bedrock that illuminates their whole experience. It's eternal and unchanging. It has no judgments or "I". The mind-body, which is illuminated by it, feels great because true nature is blissful. The mind-body can only experience it temporarily but Satcitananda is permanent because it does not rely upon an experience to be what it is.

There are all kinds of practices, tricks and doctrines about how to get the ego and mind-body associations to step aside so that reality becomes apparent. The goal (if you want to call it a goal) shouldn't be to use those practices forever to "find bliss". The goal "should" be that you don't need any practices to see that it is bliss which illuminates all of our apparent reality in its many varied forms. Even when "you" suffer, that is lit up by bliss. It never changes just because the experience realm has the appearance of constantly changing.

I put "should" in quotes because there is no goal. Whether you "figure this out" or not doesn't matter. It doesn't change what is lighting up Samsara. A total dolt who has zero awareness of this and no interest in this is still lit up by the same existence/consciousness/bliss as an enlightened person who gets it. There is only one thing happening here, only one reality, and from it is projected an endless multitude of forms, time and space that are all lit up by that one thing.

 

[Brendan12]

Now that you've learned this skill.. do you think taking psychedelics can magnify this feeling even more?

You should make a post next time your tripping and tell us if you can get even more intense feelings..

 

[-=SS=-]

Now that you've learned this skill.. do you think taking psychedelics can magnify this feeling even more?

You should make a post next time your tripping and tell us if you can get even more intense feelings..

This is a common misconception due to western thinking of 'more is more'. It's the other way round. Less is more. You peel away that which is false and you get a greater appreciation of that which is.

I have done many drugs but nothing came close to what of my first psychedelics experiences with LSD when I was in my early twenties. Until not long ago I believed that state was a product of Psychedelic and unique to those class of drugs.

NN-DMT is considered to be the holy grail of psychedelic experience. I have experienced the same state endogenously, through sleep states and meditation. Which backs up the idea that anything you experience on psychedelics is not caused directly by the substances themselves, but in some way they are intersecting or interrupting a normal flow in our physiology which reveals what is actually already there. I have often had the sensation that I'm actually dreaming all the time, I can almost 'see' it in my minds eye in an intuitive sense.

I think it's the way we compartmentalize our physiology and our concepts about it that obscures what may really be going on. All the thoughts, visions, etc, are not really taking place locally to you but in a collective mind at all times. Psychedelics somehow tweak the normal flow and reveal certain streams to us. And we can certainly tap into these streams without psychedelics, because ultimately that collective mind is us. How this is done is up to the individual to discover, as every house has a different interior.

 

[ItsclearlyFake]

, it's actually just cutting through all the window dressing to the bedrock of reality, which is existence/consciousness/bliss

Amen!

The goal "should" be that you don't need any practices to see that it is bliss which illuminates all of our apparent reality in its many varied forms. Even when "you" suffer, that is lit up by bliss. It never changes just because the experience realm has the appearance of constantly changing.

I respectfully disagree. IMO, State is more important than thought,

Now that you've learned this skill.. do you think taking psychedelics can magnify this feeling even more?

You should make a post next time your tripping and tell us if you can get even more intense feelings..

I don't think it can't be magnified more. Because it's not actually an experience or a feeling, it's absolute and 'total' Love.

in some way they are intersecting or interrupting a normal flow in our physiology which reveals what is actually already there.

All the thoughts, visions, etc, are not really taking place locally to you but in a collective mind at all times. Psychedelics somehow tweak the normal flow and reveal certain streams to us. And we can certainly tap into these streams without psychedelics, because ultimately that collective mind is us. How this is done is up to the individual to discover, as every house has a different interior.

You get it man!

 

[Foreigner]

Amen!

I respectfully disagree. IMO, State is more important than thought,

State and thought are the same thing because they are both taking place in the temporary experience realm. (Not arguing with you btw, just discussing. I am cool with whatever you decide is right for you.)

The reality of bliss/consciousness/existence is the core. A thought or state of bliss is a temporary experience that resonates with the core reality, but isn't the core reality. In Vedanta they call this the bliss sheath.

For example, when you are temporarily angry, you are bliss experiencing anger. When you are sad, you are bliss experiencing sadness. When you are blissed out, you are bliss experiencing bliss. It's often easy for practitioners to see through other emotions and temporary states but when they experience bliss they tell themselves that "they've got it", however the bliss experience is also temporary. That's why the bliss sheath has its own specific term. The state of bliss is so close to resonance with the core reality that they are almost indistinguishable. But one is a temporary experience, you can still see through/beneath it and realize it's not part of bliss/consciousness/existence. And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with seeking blissful experiences; I'm just saying that if we're trying to get at the truth, the experience of bliss is not the truth. Whereas, the core is the core, you can't get anymore "into" it or go "beyond" it. It just is.

Basically, if it's an experience, it's mind-body. What I'm trying to point to is the... reality... which lights up the experience. That is the source of the bliss and it doesn't require a temporary experience to see. It is available whether or not you're having an experience of bliss and you don't need to seek out blissful experiences to access it.

Btw, I'm not hung up on Vedanta, it's just the only system I've found that has any language remotely applicable to these realizations.

I don't think it can't be magnified more. Because it's not actually an experience or a feeling, it's absolute and 'total' Love.

This is accurate. Apply this statement to what I wrote above.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Sure you can experience that without drugs…..

But do you get insanely beautiful visuals as a bonus!?

 

[Foreigner]

Sure you can experience that without drugs…..

But do you get insanely beautiful visuals as a bonus!?

If what you're seeking is a spiritual experience, then keep doing drugs.

If you're seeking the truth of reality, then drugs can only take you so far.

That's all I'm saying. All we're talking about here is the truth. If you don't care about the truth (which is fine), then keep seeking those insanely beautiful visuals. They're fun

 

[specialrelativity]

Above, how much Dimethyltryptamine have you done?
Mark

 

[Brendan12]

SS.. are you claiming that using drugs is a falsehood?

 

[SpiralusSancti]

No. Exactly the opposite.

And nothings wrong with taking 2c-b or any “candypsychedelic” to experience mind-blowing visuals and euphoria as an reminder on how fucking beautiful world is. Nothing naturally superior in smoking 5-meo-DMT and experiencing unity with universe without real visuals. Same as doing mantras, tantras, yantras and all other tras isn’t any guarantee to get anything more than with drooping acid and being a good person. Ofc as you push it more and more, appeal of that techniques gets clear. All of that can be utilized in a good or bad/wrong way, if there's even such distinction....

 

[Brendan12]

That's very interesting SpiralusSancti.. but I was actually targeting SS.. just as those 2 letters together..

 

[-=SS=-]

SS.. are you claiming that using drugs is a falsehood?

I'd say they can perhaps be useful on the journey towards truth, but they're not going to give you truth. The rate at which people use/abuse them isn't useful though, and I think many people really underestimate the hinderance they cause and overestimate their usefulness. For that I blame people like Leary, McKenna, etc, who sold their concepts much like Freud and Jung sold theirs, instilling people with the belief in a perceived lack of something.. that there was a 'shadow' to overcome, or an 'calciferous ego' to be dissolved. Psychedelics can really mess up the minds of people by hooking them on a certain train of thought, due to their powerful visual and emotional content.

In actuality a person doesn't need repeated use of psychedelics. If people decluttered themselves first then the message would come through loud and clear on the first call.

It's comparable to dreaming. It's very easy to get caught up in the dreams themselves, what you saw, and trying to extrapolate meaning from it. That's where our focus naturally falls because the process of dreaming is captivating, like a psychedelic state. It's only when you experience a true lucid dream for the first time that you finally tweak that the dreams themselves are not actually that important, but the act of dreaming and your relation to that process is. Getting 'behind' the machinery is what is important - know thy self. Psychedelic states, dreams, or mystical visions generally, are in the end a hinderance because they take your attention away from where it really needs to be.. if you actually want to know the truth.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

I think there is a difference between ego loss and identity loss, or identity loss is ego loss taken much further.
Ego loss to me is when you are no longer thinking in words, you are just you experiencing. But you are still you.
Identity loss is something I've only experienced once on a high dose of 5Meo-DMT.

 

[iridescentblack]

I love the feeling of connecting with my environment as if "the trees and I are one". It makes navigating life much more manageable for someone like me.

 

[Brendan12]

I think, SS, that there is a difference between psychedelics and how you relate them to dreams..

Compared to stimulants or dissociatives.. which people just take to have a good time and not to learn something about enlightenment.

People do drugs to have a good time all the time!

Alcohol and caffeine included here..

But the idea that you can't learn(gain) something from psychedelics is a falsehood itself.. at least in my thinking process(knowledge)..

 

[-=SS=-]

I think, SS, that there is a difference between psychedelics and how you relate them to dreams..

Compared to stimulants or dissociatives.. which people just take to have a good time and not to learn something about enlightenment.

People do drugs to have a good time all the time!

Alcohol and caffeine included here..

But the idea that you can't learn(gain) something from psychedelics is a falsehood itself.. at least in my thinking process(knowledge)..

The point about dreams was that both dreams and psychedelic states are visionary experiences, both taking place in the minds eye, and in both cases it's incredibly easy and really the default experience to get swept up in the visions themselves. Which is fine, there is nothing wrong with that in itself.. you can learn things and provoke new thinking, receive psychic impressions and so forth.. or as you said just to have fun.

But you specifically used the term 'falsehood', which is what I was relating my entire response to. If you want to know the truth then there's a certain way of going about things. Indulging in visions and experiences, in themselves will not give you the truth. They may contribute, as all of life may, to leading you to realise intuitively that the way to truth is not marching toward anything but retreating away from the false. And in the end, the visions are 'false'.. as in, not truth. They are a picture show, like all of life is, like dreaming is. Truth is found beneath all of those states, and adding more states (visionary or otherwise) to your view only adds more layers to the onion instead of subtracting.

 

[Brendan12]

Truth is the same as being honest.

Can a person be honest and say "I would like to try a psychedelic"?

 

[Opana313]

The point about dreams was that both dreams and psychedelic states are visionary experiences, both taking place in the minds eye, and in both cases it's incredibly easy and really the default experience to get swept up in the visions themselves. Which is fine, there is nothing wrong with that in itself.. you can learn things and provoke new thinking, receive psychic impressions and so forth.. or as you said just to have fun.

But you specifically used the term 'falsehood', which is what I was relating my entire response to. If you want to know the truth then there's a certain way of going about things. Indulging in visions and experiences, in themselves will not give you the truth. They may contribute, as all of life may, to leading you to realise intuitively that the way to truth is not marching toward anything but retreating away from the false. And in the end, the visions are 'false'.. as in, not truth. They are a picture show, like all of life is, like dreaming is. Truth is found beneath all of those states, and adding more states (visionary or otherwise) to your view only adds more layers to the onion instead of subtracting.

I think I understand what you are getting at now.

My question and I think what others are curious about is...when on the quest for truth, does a psychedelic experience occur? Like if I was doing mantra/meditating to seek truth, would I be submerged into a display of visionary like psychedelic visions(similar with hallucinogenic drugs) as the dissolution of my ego or identity or before the ego death disappears while finding this "truth"???

I am pretty sure I know the answer is yes but I would appreciate if you would go into depth of the falsehood of visions(I understand that beautiful or terrifying visions should not be anything to cling to even with its miraculous glory. I understand not to indulge BUT what is this like? Are they open eye intense visuals/ CEV or subtle? Duration? And then when you reach your goal of TRUTH, is there still a lingering afterglow?

I know the body & mind are very much capable of accessing things like psychedelic states-- to pain relief and drugs are in fact a tool. A great tool to easily access or enhance certain states or feelings..


Also curious of your method, how long you must do such method in order to peel back and obtain dissolution of ego?
I think I would very much enjoy this practice of meditation or yoga and would definitely trip while in the process to see if ego death comes faster or easier and hopefully overall enhance the fuck out of the psychedelic experience.

 

[-=SS=-]

My question and I think what others are curious about is...when on the quest for truth, does a psychedelic experience occur? Like if I was doing mantra/meditating to seek truth, would I be submerged into a display of visionary like psychedelic visions(similar with hallucinogenic drugs) as the dissolution of my ego or identity or before the ego death disappears while finding this "truth"???

I am pretty sure I know the answer is yes but I would appreciate if you would go into depth of the falsehood of visions(I understand that beautiful or terrifying visions should not be anything to cling to even with its miraculous glory. I understand not to indulge BUT what is this like? Are they open eye intense visuals/ CEV or subtle? Duration? And then when you reach your goal of TRUTH, is there still a lingering afterglow?

Actually the answer is no I think this is probably the most common misconception people have when thinking about Truth/God/Absolute/Enlightenment, that it is a visionary experience in itself because we are so used to associating what we can see with what we believe reality to be. This is further solidified by all our scientific concepts about matter and the physical universe, we have this intellectual foundation that is very bound to the perception of sight and spatial dimensions. Understandably so, of course.

That's not to say you won't experience visions or mystical states along the way. I think anyone who pursues this sort of thing is bound to experience at least lucid dreaming, which is a visionary state, and perhaps an astral type experience (very similar to NN-DMT). But the actual realization itself is not a visual thing because it is to do with that which is perceiving, and not that which is perceived. Again going back to the lucid dreaming metaphor, once you experience a fully lucid dream you sort of get it.. that the dreams themselves are not actually that important, what is imminently more important is that which is now immediate and obvious.. which is 'you'. Up until the point you have a fully lucid dream it is a bit like trying to describe colour to a blind man, it's something you have to experience directly and then you really 'get it'.

It's impossible to describe such a thing as realisation, because you can't describe something that is not. Imagination can't conceive of it and language can't convey it, because anything that they come up with will forever be not it. It's like trying to describe what empty space objectively is.. it has no actual properties, and whilst you can use various concepts and language to relay what we think it is they still don't actually describe what it is.. it's impossible because it is absence. How can you describe absence of falsehood about yourself? I can do it for myself but it will be utterly meaningless to everyone else - paradoxically those with strong intuition, or who have had similar direct experiences, may be able to pick it up through the language though.

Also curious of your method, how long you must do such method in order to peel back and obtain dissolution of ego?
I think I would very much enjoy this practice of meditation or yoga and would definitely trip while in the process to see if ego death comes faster or easier and hopefully overall enhance the fuck out of the psychedelic experience.

Who can say? Everyone is at differing stages of ripeness. Even then it's not necessarily a linear or predictable thing, the only predictable thing is that you will succeed if you want to succeed.