if immigrants commit less crimes per capita than natural born citizens, when immigrants come to an area that means that overall crime per capita goes down
so how is immigration bad
are you gonna drive the taxis? do you hate food that tastes good?
US Politics the 2025 trump presidency thread
- Thread starter alasdairm
- Start date
so how is immigration bad
are you gonna drive the taxis? do you hate food that tastes good?
You did not just post that, you should be a politician
"Overall crime" goes up if you have native person A committing a crime and immigrant person B committing a crime. Who cares about "per capita", you have extra crime on top of the crime already present.Taxi's got driven quite fine before Pakistani's came here. If there was a gap in the market, it would get filled. And kebab tastes like fucking garbage - not forgetting the incident up North where one shop murdered a British girl and turned her into kebab meat..
Exactly - I still think that the obama examples should have been afforded some degree of due process (as I believe that the state has an obligation to treat everyone equally, citizen or not), but what is happening in the US today is something I find much more concerning, both in who has been targeted, and through what means.
point I have been waiting for, like, 10 years to make; making this so big deal, implying immigrants ain't worthy and raising opposition and hatred towards them, you are contributing to second set of problems. Maybe it would have been easier to just go along with different people than forming narrative different people bring so many problems that opposing their immigration is not creating more problems than it resolves?
And this is why we're in the mess we're in, because people on your side of the equation can't come to the table for a serious discussion about immigration without accusing everyone else of "spreading hatred". You can't see the nuance and the need to think deeper about the topic - this is why when posed the question "at what point is there too much immigration?" all you get is vague deflections.
It is possible to have a healthy immigration system you know. It doesn't have to be this binary choice between a free-for-all or zero immigration. The error your side makes is that because you lean towards the free-for-all and subsequently "everyone is equal" mentality that you automatically give up the right to discriminate between the people coming in, when in reality everyone is not equal and a lot of people should not be coming here at all.
The hatred you refer to is a by-product of this failure. The overwhelming majority of people do not care about immigrants so long as they adapt to our way of life, and treat the country with respect. But when you bring in masses of people, culturally incompatible and not honouring their role as guests in the host nation, then that breeds hatred because people think "Why am I breaking my back to pay taxes and be law-abiding when these people are coming here and mugging us off".
The solution is not to turn away like you want to do, and just believe everything will work out. That is an ideological position divorced from reality, and the situation will continue to deteriorate until reality forces people like you to turn back around and come to the table for a serious adult discussion on how we move forward.
but there is a far larger number of natural born citizens who commit those crimes, its like there's a bunch of explosives on the ground and you found a firecracker and threw it out of the area and said "there I solved the problem!"
I wholeheartedly agree. This zero sum this or that is a false equivalency. We should aspire to better systems, not one sized fits all solutions that have obviously failed by either being too restrictive/harsh or too lax/weak and prone to abuse.
I agree - I would like to think that you've taught me a thing or two about this issue and how I view immigration overall. While I think that authoritarian crackdowns and measures aimed at preserving monocultural purity are dystopian, I do see your point that a system without onramps that help new entrants into it become accustomed to the norms and cultural mores of the society people immigrate to.
technically, authoritarian crackdowns and measures aimed at preserving monocultural purity are not just dystopian but are ethnic cleansing and eugenics
I disagree with sentiment that racism is caused by lack of "healthy hostility and suspicion towards aliens" or however you want to verbalize it. I think racism is basically caused by lesser racism in the past and it will lead to greater racism in the future.
Ethnic cleansing and eugenics can certainly be a part of it, though there are other softer evils that can be part of it as well that do not rise to the same level that are nonetheless dystopian and cruel. Cold rather than freezing, if you will
SO WHAT. We can - rhetorical - have a conversation about the root causes of that, but what is the point of having natives AND immigrants committing crimes, when you can just narrow it down to just the natives by having a sensible immigration policy.
Your logic is basically natives (probably white) are doing bad things, therefore it's excusable for immigrants to do the same. Which is ridiculous, as I said right at the beginning.
I could make the same argument in the other direction. Importing huge swathes of people who breed prolifically and are encouraged to abuse the benefits system, so that they outbreed the host population, is long-game ethnic cleansing.
White Brit's are already no longer the majority in London and Birmingham. In a couple of decades we won't even be the majority in the country (if nothing changes).
hostility and suspicion toward aliens is simply the definition of xenophobia
my point is that there would be a much larger reduction in crime if people focused on making the lives of everyone better rather than pointing the finger at some outside group
ah yeah the good ol' "new concept or food or drug or ethnic group that is introduced to population/system has to be exhaustively proven to be far more safe than anything that has ever existed in the population/system for it to be carefully accepted, but will be mostly avoided anyway"
Rubbish. The UK is an order of magnitude safer and prosperous than Pakistan, just by coming here their lives are already better, not to mention getting lots of free benefits. Why do you think they come here in the first place? The food and weather? There is absolutely nothing that could be done on our part to stop the rape gangs. It is cultural incompatibility, full stop.
Second, by cramming in lots of people in short order you are diluting the job market and housing, which is going to breed crime. The lives of people already here are made worse by this, not better. Asking them to play nice with the newcomers on top of that is taking the piss.
You make everyone's lives better by not having mass immigration and helping the nations where they come from better so they don't want to leave in the first place. Of course there are exceptions, like Pakistan.. and many Islamic countries.. because they don't want to change for religious reasons.. which is fine, their choice, but in that case we have to say "nope, we don't want you, thanks".
you just explained why immigrants commit less crime, now perhaps we can do the same to improve the lives of everyone who exists in poverty
markets are not diluted when immigrants come because they produce more demand for everything in that locale, they improve the economy
Yeah, and? You wouldn't just invite some random bum off the street into your home would you? No, you wouldn't, because you know he might decide to steal your stuff, shit in the wardrobe, or maybe go psychotic and stab you.
It's healthy to have boundaries, to say "no" to things. That's not fascist, that's self-preservation. Even your pet dog discriminates when foreign people trespass onto your property, it's completely natural to not just let your guard down. Only a human being that is mentally ill would be caused to think otherwise, because it is potentially suicidal behaviour.
News moves so fast these days I can pull you up this exact example, from just four days ago:
Woman ‘beaten to death with mallet by homeless man she took in’ - The Telegraph
Made me chuckle
jasperkent
Bluelighter
Since I had to work today, I was unable to attend the anti-Trump protest here. But I am wearing a prominent NO KINGS button.
Passing thru the dining room, I was complimented by a sweet little old lady who said she & her husband were heading to the demonstration after they ate.
Warmed my heart.
Passing thru the dining room, I was complimented by a sweet little old lady who said she & her husband were heading to the demonstration after they ate.
Warmed my heart.