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US Politics the 2025 trump presidency thread

white MAGA anti-culture that has taken hold
culture to destroy all cultures. It is still gulf of mexico and I don't give a fuck if american version of google maps begs to differ.

I followed some conversation about topic while ago and it dawned on me that maybe fascism, uncreativity and unartsiness go all hand in hand and that is why nazis had to invade into skinhead scene and try that with punk scene too (latter having more stout success in kicking them out); they just can't make anything valuable on their own. Maybe formal leather military suits in 193x-1945 being exception. I heard they were unpractical in many ways tho'.
 
culture to destroy all cultures. It is still gulf of mexico and I don't give a fuck if american version of google maps begs to differ.

I followed some conversation about topic while ago and it dawned on me that maybe fascism, uncreativity and unartsiness go all hand in hand and that is why nazis had to invade into skinhead scene and try that with punk scene too (latter having more stout success in kicking them out); they just can't make anything valuable on their own. Maybe formal leather military suits in 193x-1945 being exception. I heard they were unpractical in many ways tho'.
I don't believe that culture will ever be subsumed by anticulture. It may be infiltrated, it may be oppressed, and it may be banned, but it will always flourish in spite of such things. I am a child of house music, birthed of the death of disco and the oppression of LGBTQ+BIPOC people, which emerged into rave and generation ecstasy (where bluelight has it's roots), and flourishes in spite of it's suppression. Anywhere you can have a turntable you can have a revolution.
 
Awesome to finally have all the wasteful spending being slashed in Washington!



I'm informed that due to the 'heightened risk' Donald Trump is under (due to saying the quiet bit out loud on the subject of Gaza), his security are now flying several Trump Force One aircraft to confuse terrorists.

In the great scheme of things, multiple planes is a small ticket item, but when someone announces they intend to reduce government costs by 25%, flying multiple aircfaft has terrible optics. The only other leaders I KNOW do this are Putin, Pezeshkian and dear old Kim Jong Un. I'm not saying that's an exhaustive list. In fact, I'm told that two or three different modes of transport are always ready and at the very last moment, those leaders randomly choose one option.
 
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Awesome to finally have all the wasteful spending being slashed in Washington!

right?

so much of his admin. is performative.

remember, we're talking about this guy:

trumptweets03.jpg


trumptweets07.jpg


in his first term, trump took 378 days of vacation at a cost to u.s. taxpayers of $144M.

he averaged 95 days vacation a year. for comparison, obama - whom he frequently criticized - averaged 41.

alasdair
 
The thing is - the entire authoritarian populism movement is not based on a coherent set of principles. In short everyone has been promised SOMETHING and that's all they care about.

But lack of self-reflaction should come as no surprise. I imagine all ex-presidents get a security detail for life, I'm sure Donald Trump had one so it would be interesting to know if that figure is true and if Donald Trump has cost the tax payer as much. I mean, he MIGHT have paid for it all himself...

Oh wait, Palm Beach Sherrif's office recently asked for $45 million for the overtime they had to pay for Donald Trump's security JUST FOR ONE YEAR. That was for when he was an ex-president (detail of 100 as opposed to 300 people). To be fair, it was only $12 million the year before.

You can point these things out but you cannot use rational argument with someone whose beliefs are irrational.

Apply the appropriate razor and move on.
 
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Can you please click "reply" so that my post is quoted? I'm not getting notified that you're replying to me.

But you rejected the left<-->right paradigm, appeared to agree with the authortarian popularist concept, or at least didn't see fit to disagree when I first suggested it, then went straight back to using the left<-->right paradigm in later answers.

I'm not doing this he said she said thing for something that you can easily scroll up and read.

You seem to be a big fan of either/or choices when it comes to spectrum definitions and I don't operate that way. I didn't explicitly agree with anything you said.

You know, it almost appears that a paradigm is FINE until it shows something you disagree with.

Are we going to return to talking about the subject anytime soon, or...?

So I would appreciate selecting an appropriate paradigm as without it, all we end up doing is gainsaying which is of no value to anyone. If the 'situation' is merely 'what is most amenable for this one moment', that's EXACTLY what authortarian popularism is based on. A lack of coherence - which I pointed out long ago. So in a way, you have somewhat shown the precice problem here.

Look at the mental gymnastics here. I somehow proved your point without knowing it? No, I didn't. You can't twist people's words like that. If I didn't explicitly say that, then your conclusion is wrong.

I'm not having this lame conversation with you anymore. You've forced it into really abstract territory and now that I'm showing disinterest, you're trying to shoehorn my prior posts into your ideology. So boring.

Trump is not a far-right fascist or a nazi. There's no concrete evidence for it, at least not yet. That's all I really came to this thread to say. I'm not at all interested in your highfalutin paradigms approach, or any of the other mouth foamers here who have been bending over backwards to convince the world that Trump is a far-right existential threat.

It's a simple matter of Occam's Razor. You don't need to go so far out into abstract political philosophy territory to figure it out. Trump is not a nazi. Neither is Musk. Neither of them is even far-right. If that changes I'll be one of the first people to say.
 
Trump is not a far-right fascist or a nazi. There's no concrete evidence for it, at least not yet. That's all I really came to this thread to say. I'm not at all interested in your highfalutin paradigms approach, or any of the other mouth foamers here who have been bending over backwards to convince the world that Trump is a far-right existential threat.

Fair enough - you have said it now.
 
I just re-read an article from many years ago. It seems Donald Trump did own a copy of 'My New Order' but whatever else you may think, the author was certainly gifted in his delivery of speeches. I don't think one can assert that anyone who takes inspiration from the book neccicarily agrees with the sentiments therein, but it's unarguable that there are similarites in the delivery. I mean, a lot of politicians study the great speeches of the Roman Ceasers and nobody thinks badly of them for doing so.

-State that there are only two options and repeat that as fact many many times (the either/or fallicy)
-Identify the words that are most effective and repeat them many many times. Repetition is powerful.
-Invent slogans that use simple words, are simple to remember and importantly, that are unfalsifiable.
-Employ the crowd. If you have supporters who turn up to every speech, ensure that they are made to feel welcome and 'part of the team'.
-Stick to a small number of easily understood points. Repeat. Repitition is powerful.
-Ensure that the media is provided with a copy of each speech as it is written so they are able to employ sections of if.

I'm the first to admit that this is no secret but again I say, whatever else you may think, Donald Trump is able make people feel special.
 
Well yes, it's certainly the case that Ralph Wigham's catchphrase (which he repeats again and again) is his assertion of just how special HE IS.

It is the case that very few people who enter politics are truly from a working class background. After all, it's hardly certain career. For every person who makes it to the top table, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail; often through no fault of their own. But they can take risks because if they don't succeed, they have a network of family and friends who will ensure that they won't ever want for food or shelter, safery or warmth.

In fact, whose to say that there weren't thousands of kids who were given the same financial support as Elon Musk but who did fail. Conformation bias that Elon Musk is 'special' Because we never hear about them. They end up working for a family or friend but they don't starve.

So it's really no surprise that Elon Musk really has no idea what it's like to end up struggling for year after year, decade after decade. He seems so unsuited to the job that you might think he would employ someone who DOES know. But from what I have seen of the man, he does not take criticism well or accept that much of his success was luck (parental loans tying for first place). But I sense he really thinks that everything can only be measured in terms of profit.

Here in the UK we are, I suggest, around five years ahead of the curve. We got rid of the people who cynically undermined social support. But what I have noted is that when support is lost, it quickly becomes the new norm. Like it's normal for kids to be hungry...

I don't know. I'm interested to know if his newly minted quango actually has the powers or indeed will be given the power. Because if I were cynical, I might think Donald Trump is quite prepared to let Elon Musk fail and if history is any guide, throw Musk under a bus and assert that he 'always knew tha man was weak'. That Donald Trump repeatedly seems to employ 'weak' people, you have to wonder if it's convenient to have a hatchet man who can be discarded should there be a political backlash...
 
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Trump originally said that USAID gave Political 8 million to write favorable stories about Democrats
Then he said that the 8 million was given to Politico from USAID for subscriptions.
Politico and other outlets sell high end subscriptions with reference material, etc., for about $10,000
The subscriptions, which include Politico Pro or E&E News by Politico, offer paywalled content including policy tracking and exclusive reporting. Federal agencies also paid for subscriptions to many other news outlets in 2024, including The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal.
Turns out that the 8 million was from all government agencies for those Politico subscriptions.
Politico was paid $24,000 from USAID for subscriptions in 2024.
I went to the Govt website USAspending.gov and verified that. I linked that up in my last post in this thread.
Yet after that it's still being said in this thread that, "the USAID audit is showing that left-wing organizations were receiving massive funding from the Fed to sow divisions, including the media itself"
Repetition indeed, @4DQSAR
Screen-Shot-2025-02-11-at-5-06-49-PM.png

Estimates on Trump's Super Bowl attendance have it costing taxpayers anywhere between 10 and 20 million. He left before half time.
 
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I'm sure you are only to well aware of the Greek myth that gave rise to the axiom 'The lie can run around the world before the truth gets it's boots on'.

If a politician is constrained to telling the truth, they will do so but in the best light possible.

If a politican isn't constrained by the truth, they can simply assert ANYTHING because before anyone can correct them a news cycle has passed and the lying politician has told a new lie.

That Donald Trump refused to debate if real-time fact-checking was used, that should have been a massive red flag to everyone. But I am reminded that people are often irrational. They are happier with fiction that lines up with their prejudices than to ever apply critical thinking. Because if there is one great thing Donald Trump sells, it's certainties. Yes, they are utterly false BUT there are many people who prefer to believe the lie than to be put in a position where they might have to think for themselves.

Authoritianism is based on the concept that there is a large percentage of every population who feel more comfortable being compelled to do or not do something. I guess because they can fool themselves into thinking they bear no responsibility. Be it Russia 1917 or Germany 1921, after the fact it appeared that NOBODY had ever supported the auhortarian regime - but they did. As long as they weren't the ones being daemonized, they looked the other way. The Stanford Prison experiment shows how people honesltly don't think they are in any way to blame because they were cooerced. Cooersian should be another clear warning sign. Even if it's just chanting along, each person reenforces the others.

I note that the penny will be phased out in the USA. Well, copper coins last for decades but I am old enough to remember when the ½p coin was phased out. Retailors obviously rounded up. Isn't the smallest coin going to be 5 cents? So depending on how the penny is phased out, you might see some inflation. Not a vast amount, but it's many small things that keep inflation under control.

OT check out what they did in Russia. They dropped the 10 Ruble note for a coin, but the economy is in such a state that they brought back the note. Why? Because coins tend to end up in piggy banks while notes are spent. So there is recent evidence of how the forms of currency affect inflation. I'm told US prices are through the roof and rounding up will hurt the poorest.
 
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I'll tell ya what's really special:

The wealthiest man in the world, an immigrant to America, telling a federal agency that feeds starving children "You guys have too much money."

What a gross oversimplification of the audit.

Musk uncovers massive reckless spending, corruption, and probable money laundering, and the left is doing its usual "look over there" tactic of focusing on a super niche issue.

Did you look at the ledgers of the programs getting the axe? The overwhelming majority are bullshit and have nothing to do with survival aid. Fucking basket weaving workshops in Africa for $2 million or some shit.

It's like nobody has any interest in trying to trim the national deficit. They would rather just mindlessly attack the Trump admin like TDS zombies instead of take a step back and acknowledge ONE GOOD THING happening: a fiscally conservative audit of the entire Fed.

We have been waiting for this for 30+ years.
 
Back again? Quite a volteface.

Simply asserting a statement does not make it a fact but It may well reveal a person's prejudices (I believe I previously mentioned this detail).

Application of Hitchen's Razor seems appropriate in this case.

Put simply 'That wihich can be asserted without evidence may safely be dismissed without evidence'.

The burden of proof lies with the person making the statment. There is no burden on others to prove a statment false. Manipulation of 'facts' relies on elements of FLICC:

1- Fake evidence (bulk fake experts, magnified minorities, fake debate)
2- Logical fallicies (ad hominem, 'slippery slope', misrepresentation, ambiguity, false equivelence, false balance, straw man, unfalsifiable statements)
3 - Impossible expectations (moving goalposts, anchoring, reframing)
4 - Cherry picking (anecdote, wishful thinking, quote-mining, outlier data)
5 - Conspiracy theories (contradictory, imune to evidence, overriding suspician, apophrenia, persecution complex, externalization of internal conflict)

In fact, even if provided with evidence, some people will continue to repeat a statement as 'factual'. They may simply be unaware that a statment had later been found untrue. Factors may also include the 24 hour news cycle, social media (the algorithm), self interest and peer pressure. The seminal Soloman Acsh conformity experiments showed that humans will conform with groups they are parts of, especially if deviation risks ostraicm. Each is coersian of a sort.

Gainsaying is not the same as rational argument, but your post does serve as an example of how uncritical people can be sometimes. That which aligns with a person's prejudices is accepted uncritically, it having the ring of 'truthiness'. But even when said statement is shown to be false, it retains it's truthiness and may be repeated for years; decades sometimes. I suggest much of this caused by the news cycle, (previously mentioned), social media, media manipulation and polerisation (again, I mentioned the'either/or logical fallicy AKA black-and-white thinking). Only a minority of people care to know what lies a politician told yesterday, they DO care what a that same politican says today. Sadly, this is part of human nature.

I suppose that the Sophists make a fair point in asserting that direct experience is the closest we can possibly get to certainty, but even then, there will always be a certain amout of doubt. But doubt is scary. Thus it is human nature to seek certanty.
 
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