Recovery The 2022 alcohol support thread

[Jabberwocky]

I still haven't tried kratom so I don't know what it's like, but do you mean that the strains are different, akin to differences in weed strains?

Fairly similar, yeah, but chemically even more different between strains.

Kratom has 2 main opioid alkaloids which are responsible for the bulk of effects, but every strain has a variety of 20+ others which make each strain feel a bit different.

Once you become tolerant to one strain switching to another will feel stronger for a few days until you become tolerant again to that specific alkaloid profile.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Fairly similar, yeah, but chemically even more different between strains.

Kratom has 2 main opioid alkaloids which are responsible for the bulk of effects, but every strain has a variety of 20+ others which make each strain feel a bit different.

Once you become tolerant to one strain switching to another will feel stronger for a few days until you become tolerant again to that specific alkaloid profile.

Ahhh interesting

 

[bird.is.the.word]

I quit drinking about a month ago. My wife thinks I'm an alcoholic. I've been struggling with that idea for a long time. I don't know what an alcoholic is. I'm a problem drinker, sometimes. Most of the time, I'm not a problem drinker. I have committed to stopping drinking for a year. She never wants me to drink again, which I think is unfair / unrealistic. I've gotten much better. I used to drink whiskey straight out of the bottle while walking back from the bottle shop. That was over 10 years ago. These days, I rarely have more than a six-pack. Leading up the incident a month ago, I was having one can of bourbon and coke a day.

I went to AA and they kept telling me that I was in denial, but they couldn't actually define what an alcoholic is... which struck me as a bit odd considering it's one of the As in AA.

During COVID, I was drinking so much that I often spent the next day with my head in the toilet vomiting bile for literally hours until my throat and my gums felt like I just drank battery acid. I got to a point where I decided to limit my drinking. I haven't been perfect since then, but I don't want to completely give up on my ability to moderate.

I am not powerless to alcohol.

My name is bird and I am not an alcoholic.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I went to AA and they kept telling me that I was in denial, but they couldn't actually define what an alcoholic is... which struck me as a bit odd considering it's one of the As in AA.

Yeah, it's really a spectrum, which is the reason the medical world really doesn't use the term "alcoholic" anymore. They now use Alcohol Use Disorder which is more representative of being a spectrum.

 

[Jabberwocky]

OK, well, now I have to stop for sure. Here comes the psychosis.

It always starts with auditory hallucinations for me and progresses from there.

Doorbells ringing, glass breaking, people laughing. Random stuff. Slightly disturbing.

Also left the oven on with a pizza inside all night, smells awful.

 

[AbbeyLee]

I found my notes on alcohol which keep disappearing thanks to iCloud I think. So here's this thing again for anyone who hasn't seen it.



Of all the drugs known to man, there is only one capable of raising five, sometimes six, of the eight neurotransmitters that shape the way we experience life. That drug is alcohol. We in the detoxification profession refer to it as the mother of all drugs or the kick-ass drug. The pharmaceutical industry has never produced a drug as all encompassing in its effect as alcohol. Most drugs will raise one or two neurotransmitters at a time.

Often antidepressant medications will raise serotonin and possibly a little noradrenaline. It is rare to find pharmaceutical agents that will raise two or three neurochemical systems. Wellbutrin (bupropion), the most powerful pharmaceutical agent out there, is an antidepressant medication that will actually raise three in somewhat of a reasonable manner: noradrenaline, dopamine, and acetylcholine.

Alcohol is the ultimate stimulant for the brain. To date, we know of no other agent that comes close to matching its power; alcohol’s effect on the human body is unprecedented. This influential drug is ultra-powerful as a neurotransmitter agonist. It moves the brain’s neurochemicals like no other drug on the planet.

Alcohol raises serotonin, GABA, endocannabinoid, glutamate, and at high dose, increases the release of opiates. It also has a significant end-result effect on dopamine (which is very euphoric), adding up to a total of six neurotransmitters being affected. All this stimulation makes alcohol a powerful anti-depressant (not to mention highly addictive) and an even more powerful depressant once it wears off, causing neurotransmitters to plummet.



When an active alcoholic suddenly stops drinking, they experience severe withdrawal. The GABA drops dramatically, creating a marked imbalance between GABA and glutamate. Glutamate, like race cars in the brain going hundreds of miles an hour with no stop signs, goes higher and higher, causing more and more agitation. This increases the severity of withdrawal symptoms and leads to delirium tremens.

By the second or third day of quitting, the alcoholic starts to experience confusion, agitation, and the shakes. The periphery of the body is a strong indicator of what is happening internally. Tremulousness, shakes, sweaty palms, and hyper-agitation of the body are all symptoms of the elevated glutamate’s effect in the brain.

At the 72-hour mark, the glutamate suddenly stops rising and begins to decrease over time while the GABA levels slowly increase.

--Dr Fredrick Von Steiff​

Brain in Balance: Understanding the Genetics and Neurochemistry Behind Addiction and Sobriety​

Brain in Balance | Understanding The Neurochemistry Behind Addiction

Dr. Fred Von Stieff explains the complex world of brain chemistry and it's relation to addiction, sobriety and genetics. Learn the science behind addiction.

www.braininbalancebook.com

 

[Crash Override]

Not sure if this is right place to ask this, what are peoples opinions on alcohol being a lesser of two (or more) evils?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Not sure if this is right place to ask this, what are peoples opinions on alcohol being a lesser of two (or more) evils?

I originally started drinking heavily when I got off hard drugs. I thought, well, it's not as bad as heroin right? I used this excuse to just drink as much as I wanted without oversight.

I think it's both true and untrue.

I can function better in some ways, but worse in other ways. I spend slightly less money on it.

But the trade off was causing even more damage to my body and brain.

Now I'm just an alcoholic instead of on drugs. It's a sideways maneuver...

I don't think it's a good or productive way to look at things. It's not a lesser evil, just a different evil.

 

[Crash Override]

I originally started drinking heavily when I got off hard drugs. I thought, well, it's not as bad as heroin right? I used this excuse to just drink as much as I wanted without oversight.

I think it's both true and untrue.

I can function better in some ways, but worse in other ways. I spend slightly less money on it.

But the trade off was causing even more damage to my body and brain.

Now I'm just an alcoholic instead of on drugs. It's a sideways maneuver...

I don't think it's a good or productive way to look at things. It's not a lesser evil, just a different evil.

I think i knew that would be the answer. It's what I rely on when I'm not on anything else and it always gets worse when I'm not taking anything else. Some people say it's better to be drinking than on drugs but others say its not. It's the one thing I can't give up for any amount of time unless forced to. I think I piss people off just as much whether it's drink or drugs I'm on

 

[Crash Override]

Why is it so easy to rely on and so hard to give up

 

[Jabberwocky]

Why is it so easy to rely on and so hard to give up

Out of all the drugs out there it's one of the best for numbing the pain of life. It also does so many things. Painkiller, anxiolytic, stimulant. Hits every part of the brain.

And it's always just 2 minutes away, around the corner. They never sell out. It's cheap. It's everywhere. You can make it yourself.

The combination of all that... I can't stand it.

 

[Crash Override]

Out of all the drugs out there it's one of the best for numbing the pain of life. It also does so many things. Painkiller, anxiolytic, stimulant. Hits every part of the brain.

And it's always just 2 minutes away, around the corner. They never sell out. It's cheap. It's everywhere. You can make it yourself.

The combination of all that... I can't stand it.

True dat

Alcohol also seemingly makes you say shit phrases like that

and it makes me feel all those emotions all at the same time which is a blessing and a curse

I feel more dirty buying the cheapest vodka than i do scoring actual drugs

Fuck this actual shit

I don't know what I'm saying any more

 

[bird.is.the.word]

Comparing alcohol (a drug) to all other drugs doesn't make sense.

Heroin is worse than alcohol IMO.
Weed is better.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I quit drinking about a month ago. My wife thinks I'm an alcoholic. I've been struggling with that idea for a long time. I don't know what an alcoholic is. I'm a problem drinker, sometimes. Most of the time, I'm not a problem drinker. I have committed to stopping drinking for a year. She never wants me to drink again, which I think is unfair / unrealistic. I've gotten much better. I used to drink whiskey straight out of the bottle while walking back from the bottle shop. That was over 10 years ago. These days, I rarely have more than a six-pack. Leading up the incident a month ago, I was having one can of bourbon and coke a day.

I went to AA and they kept telling me that I was in denial, but they couldn't actually define what an alcoholic is... which struck me as a bit odd considering it's one of the As in AA.

During COVID, I was drinking so much that I often spent the next day with my head in the toilet vomiting bile for literally hours until my throat and my gums felt like I just drank battery acid. I got to a point where I decided to limit my drinking. I haven't been perfect since then, but I don't want to completely give up on my ability to moderate.

I am not powerless to alcohol.

My name is bird and I am not an alcoholic.

I'm not sure I understand your question, are you overwhelmed trying to drink, go AA, and get nagged by your wife all at the same time? That's seems really overwhelming to me, have you considered divorcing your wife and see if that improves your drinking problem?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Or just bite the bullet and work the steps? I mean I've met a lot of really alcoholics who work a great program, don't let anyone intimidate you and tell you Step One is the only step you need work, that's not true. And you know if you're starting out in AA I'm sure there lots of other alcoholics going through the same thing or similar.

 

[RC-Lover123]

I've been taking kratom for 10 years and I have to disagree

Can you offer a pharmacological explanation for the effectiveness of strain switching? Varying amounts of mitragynine and 7OH-mitragynine?

Well, I can, actually. When you've got a potent strain for a while and switch to a less potent one, which will inevitably happen, you effectively reduce your dose and give your receptor system a much needed brake. The same could be done with lowering your dose of the good stuff. I never liked strain switching, whenever I got really great stuff (green malay, usually) I immediately ordered several kilograms of that same batch to avoid having to use weaker stuff.

An alcoholic could probably switch from hard booze to beer for a few weeks, which would reduce tolerance and be beneficial.

 

[Jabberwocky]

And don't worry if you have a relapse in AA, some people are in an out of AA every 60-90 days trying to work the 12 Steps and never get it their whole life.

 

[Nas47]

Never been an alcoholic,but of of rhem lookin for rehab.other got naltrexon depot after detox,others took meds..It's a heavy addiction

 

[bird.is.the.word]

I'm not an alcoholic. I don't need to work any steps. Not going to get divorced so I can keep drinking.

@The Axe

 

[Jabberwocky]

Well there's always marriage counseling, maybe it will give your wife a chance to "dig deep" into her issues (maybe even appointments without you) while you "dig in" to those AA meetings. When you say you're not an alcoholic, and I'm saying this as gently as I can, but I think you're in denial about your alcoholism and (rampant) drug use, sir.