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US Politics The 2021 Former President Trump Thread - I look very much forward to showing my financials, because they are huge.

We may be a two-party system, but a system in which 1/3rd of the voters feels completely separated from the political process (which would accelerate in the event of uncontested dominance by the Democratic party, assuming that there is a significant schism in the GOP regarding Trump) is something that is very dangerous to the political system IMO. That's exactly the kind of situation in which extremism flourishes.

The system could absorb that threat if they did some kind of outreach to those people, but I haven't really seen anything meaningful in that regard. From what I've seen, the Democrats, at least the "mainstream" ones, have pretty much written off the 70+ million Trump voters, especially after the events in January of this year. As far as the Republicans go, yeah, they can try to just copy and paste Trump's style without Trump himself, but so far their ability regarding this has been abysmal. Republicans (like Ted Cruz) have actually tried to do this, copying Trump's vulgar and reactionary demagogue-style rhethoric on social media, and it always just comes across as the pathetic, unconvincing imitation that it is. As I've said before here, Trump has natural political ability that these other tools don't have...maybe they will get someone in the future whose got that kinda mojo but so far they haven't found that person.

My own perspective is that the main division in the country today is "establishment vs. anti-establishment", not "left vs. right" (as that can even be considered in a country like the USA, where the so-called "left" Democrats are actually a center-right wing party). There's an anti-establishment element in both the Republican party, the MAGA folks, which Trump pretty much has a 100% lock on, and the Democratic party, with Sanders as the most well-known member of that contingent. It's actually a somewhat difficult thing to ascertain with Trump specifically, because while Trump often trafficks in anti-establishment rhetoric, I think that the people with real money and power in this country are totally fine with Trump, despite his rude tweets or whatever. As other politicians have done, he opportunistically presents himself as an anti-establishment force while his actual policies help the establishment & capital's rapacious desire for profits.

The same kind of antagonisms exist in the Democratic party, where almost 90 percent of Democrats support Medicare For All yet only about 50 percent of elected Democrats in Congress do. The progressives have been less successful in remaking the Democratic party than the MAGA people have in the Republican party, though, at least as far as outward appearances go.

They've done polling recently (the news report I heard on this said the polling was done in January 2021) that revealed that almost half of Republicans are ready to join some new kind of Freikorps to "liberate" the country from the corrupt and venal establishment they believe that they live under, to take violent means to solve political questions. Under the kind of conditions we live under now, with such extreme levels of inequality, corruption and ecological collapse, the period of stagnation will probably be followed by either a FDR or a Hitler...either way, I don't think anyone is going to be running back to the Liz Cheneys, Ted Cruzs and Jeb Bushs of the world. They've had a taste of a "new" style of political organizing and rhetoric and I don't think that there's any going back, at least not in the short term.
 
Georgia is investigating Trump’s phone calls to “find 11,780 votes” for him to win. I think this case has legs.

Georgia secretary of state's office investigates Trump phone call asking to 'find' more votes​

The president contacted Brad Raffensperger on Jan. 2.​

"All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state," Trump said during the phone call, first revealed by The Washington Post.

The investigation by Raffensperger's office is in a fact-finding stage, Jones said, and any further legal action would be conducted by the state's attorney general, Chris Carr. Carr's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Reuters first reportedthe investigation into Trump on Monday.


Jason Miller, Trump's senior adviser, retorted in a statement Monday that there was "nothing improper or untoward about a scheduled call between President Trump, Secretary Raffensperger and lawyers on both sides."

“If Mr. Raffensperger didn’t want to receive calls about the election, he shouldn’t have run for Secretary of State. And the only reason the call became public was because Mr. Raffensperger leaked it in an attempt to score political points," Miller said.


Raffenseperger said last month that an investigation into Trump would be unlikely to be conducted by his office, but wouldn't rule out at the time a criminal probe by the Atlanta-area district attorney.

Georgia elections officials, including Raffensperger and Gov. Brian Kemp, repeatedly affirmed up until Inauguration Day that the final election results were fair and pointed to a Biden victory. Raffensperger rebuffed Trump during their phone call, telling him: "The data you have is wrong.”

House Democrats cited the phone call in their article of impeachment, charging Trump with willfully inciting an insurrection.
 
Serious question here- is it not simply unconstitutional, to impeach a civillian?

Surely the impeachment process is for in role presidents only?
 
Trump would steal quite a few senate seats with his voter base from the republicans i think it would be the other way around the republican party dies and the trump party becomes the major party vs democrats.
 
Serious question here- is it not simply unconstitutional, to impeach a civillian?

Surely the impeachment process is for in role presidents only?

If they weren't ever president maybe.

When they stopped being president after the impeachment? Or course not.
 
Trump would steal quite a few senate seats with his voter base from the republicans i think it would be the other way around the republican party dies and the trump party becomes the major party vs democrats.

Yeah no, I don't think so.

Why would the crazy minority become the predominant party over the stable majority?

If you have twice the number of votes, you don't disband your party to join one with half your number.
 
We can only tell with time how many still love trump secretly but wont openly admit it. either his son or ivakana will become the head of the party.
 
If they weren't ever president maybe.

When they stopped being president after the impeachment? Or course not.
Thanks for your reply Jess. However I still question whether we actually now this for certain.

I mean surely this is the first time an ex, non president, of effectively civillian status has been under impeachment??

It seems rather odd to me anyway, but I admit I know nothing of US politics.
 
Pfft. This "they love him but won't admit it" shit is nonsense. It's the other way around. I bet a large number of republican politicians hate trump but won't admit it. Bet a lot of Republicans voters do to.

Again, you don't join a crazy party you don't much agree with anyway and which requires absolute loyalty to a nutjob who will stab you in the back as soon as its useful to him, rather than stay in a party with twice the voters.
 
We can only tell with time how many still love trump secretly but wont openly admit it. either his son or ivakana will become the head of the party.
I think Donnie Jr has done little credit to his Dad. To me he really lacks any actual mental intellect, acumen and tact. I don't think he personally helped the cause despite I'm sure meaning well.

Better if he would have zipped it up a bit IMO.
 
Thanks for your reply Jess. However I still question whether we actually now this for certain.

I mean surely this is the first time an ex, non president, of effectively civillian status has been under impeachment??

It seems rather odd to me anyway, but I admit I know nothing of US politics.

My apology I phrased my reply more like an argument against someone else making an argument. I shoulda paid more attention to when you said it was a serious question.

Ok, so, you're right, this is a legally untested question. A more accurate answer is that the majority of legal scholars believe that yes it's constitutional and I think it's quite likely the Supreme Court would agree if it were to be challenged.

The thing is, the constitution allows for an official to be barred from running again, that implies impeachment is intended to prevent officials who've abused their power coming to power and doing it again.

The fact that option exists means it makes little sense that an official could escape that punishment by just immediately resigning before they're impeached.

For that reason, impeachment, at the very least provided it's started before the official leaves office, and at most provided they've ever held office, is constitutional.

Because it makes no sense that the framers would provide a way to prevent an official from running again but also provide a loophole to let them avoid that fate. Meaning it has to be assumed there is no intention for such a loophole. And courts tend to defer to legislative intent.
 
None of his kids share his talents.

But they do share something more valuable. His name.

Trump has cultivated a cult of personality. And personality cults, well they'd like monarchies, dictatorships and the like, Infact that's frequently where you find them. They tend to become hereditary.

I wouldn't entirely count his kids out.
 
Surely the impeachment process is for in role presidents only?

the u.s. senate debated this point yesterday and voted, 56-44, that the impeachment of an out-of-office president was constitutional.

republicans on convicting trump during his term: you can't! he's in office!
republicans on convicting trump after his term: you can't! he's out of office!

:\

alasdair
 
My apology I phrased my reply more like an argument against someone else making an argument. I shoulda paid more attention to when you said it was a serious question
No apology of any sorts was warranted there Jess in my mind. You just answered my question. Which yes, was serious and entirely non provocative nor biased.

You speak your mind. I will always respect that highly. We sit so poles apart but I do respect you for that, and I appreciate it a lot that we have discoursed se freely and openly from such opposing positions mostly.

Thanks for the further explanation.

Just trying to sort my head out now on hopefully my FINAL acid trip for a while, as I watch the crazy merry-go round world go by lol.
 
the u.s. senate debated this point yesterday and voted, 56-44, that the impeachment of an out-of-office president was constitutional.

republicans on convicting trump during his term: you can't! he's in office!
republicans on convicting trump after his term: you can't! he's out of office!

:\

alasdair
Thanks. You guys would know. Hence me openly asking.
 
Trump's 2nd impeachment defense (literally):

"If you charge me for causing violence then there will be more violence"

The 15 year old childish mentality has come full circle.
 
No apology of any sorts was warranted there Jess in my mind. You just answered my question. Which yes, was serious and entirely non provocative nor biased.

You speak your mind. I will always respect that highly. We sit so poles apart but I do respect you for that, and I appreciate it a lot that we have discoursed se freely and openly from such opposing positions mostly.

Thanks for the further explanation.

Just trying to sort my head out now on hopefully my FINAL acid trip for a while, as I watch the crazy merry-go round world go by lol.

It's also just that what I said wasn't very helpful and it was spoken from a frame of mind of "this person is just arguing that it's unconstitutional". Which was just me jumping to conclusions. So when I realized you were actually honestly asking I felt bad and wanted to rereply from the standpoint of properly explaining the situation, as best I understand it anyway. :)
 
It's also just that what I said wasn't very helpful and it was spoken from a frame of mind of "this person is just arguing that it's unconstitutional". Which was just me jumping to conclusions. So when I realized you were actually honestly asking I felt had and wanted to rereply from the standpoint of properly explaining the situation, as best I understand it anyway. :)
Thanks, but I honestly didn't take it that way at all, originally. (Maybe you aren't half as mean as you sometimes see yourself(?) Jess lol. ;) )

Elaboration appreciated all the same.
 
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