US Politics The 2020 Trump Presidency Thread

[cduggles]

Does anyone think that aul Trumbone is trolling hard and laughing himself to bed everynight?

I don’t think he laughs very much.

 

[JGrimez]

If I were you, I'd be very afraid. Because most of us, even among those who voted for Trump, are not nearly as blindly worshiping of trump.

If this Coronavirus situation goes badly, it could kill his presidency. He is responsible for making huge cuts to the health budget, to health related departments. For years he and other presidents have ignored repeated warning that a serious pandemic was inevitable. Far from spending money on preparing for he, he wanted his stupid wall.

From just 2 years ago..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/05/10/top-white-house-official-in-charge-of-pandemic-response-exits-abruptly/

He has been repeatedly going on record saying that everything's fine and under control. Which will make him look even more incompetent if people start seeing people die around them.

And then of course there's the economic damage. Destroying his biggest political asset.

The democrats will no doubt hammer all these points home over and over up to the election.

So yeah, it's by no means certain, as this election never has been. But I'd say this has made things much more uncertain than they otherwise would have been.

Should I be afraid of Trump losing re-election or corona-chan?

 

[JGrimez]

This is one theory. I wouldn't put it past Trump's enemies to cause widespread fear, panic and a recession in order to try and remove him.
It's apparent by now that they don't actually care about the future of the USA, they just care about power

 

[JessFR]

Please... The Coronavirus media fear is all over the world. If news articles causing fear about Coronavirus is an attack on trump, that means the entire planet is in on it.

It's pathetic. It's just trump being a good narcissist and thinking everything is always about him.

 

[JGrimez]

The globalist media around the western world follows the the lead of US mainstream media where the talking points originate (often straight from the US intelligence agencies).

It's naive to not accept that any piece of news that can be used against Trump in a negative way is exaggerated to that effect. We've seen it literally for years now.

For perspective:

 

[JessFR]

I don't give a shit when it was officially declared a pandemic, I give a shit about the pragmatic, practical differences.

Under trumps watch resources to fight pandemics have been removed. He removed the position from the NSC. And the state of the American Healthcare system is appalling. So long as health care is so expensive, people who are sick will not get treated and instead keep spreading the disease.

Better social protections would do a lot of good but trump opposes them. Now he's not alone there, but here's the president now and he's responsible for the situation with health care now.

I don't really give a shit what Obama did or didn't do. This whataboutism seems to frequently be your go to response, but it's meaningless. Even if you're right that Obama got a free pass while doing the wrong thing, that doesn't justify looking the other way over trumps actions.

Even if the previous president had been worse than trump, it wouldn't just make trumps incompetence and negligence OK.

 

[JGrimez]

I don't really give a shit what Obama did or didn't do. This whataboutism seems to frequently be your go to response, but it's meaningless. Even if you're right that Obama got a free pass while doing the wrong thing, that doesn't justify looking the other way over trumps actions.

It exposes the hypocrisy of the anti-Trump Leftists and Liberals. "Whataboutism" was a made-up phrase used by hypocrites to deflect the truth, back when people were pointing out that there was much more collusion and conspiracy between Russia and Clinton/Obama/Mueller than there ever was with the Trump campaign (I believe they found zero collusion there after a lengthy and expensive investigation. I wish they investigated Uranium One with the same ferocity).

Even if the previous president had been worse than trump, it wouldn't just make trumps incompetence and negligence OK.

Officials admit it: Trump saved lives and spared America from worst of coronavirus

Officials admit it: Trump saved lives and spared America from worst of coronavirus

President Trump has been outrageously lied about by Democrats, who invented a claim that he called the coronavirusa

www.americanthinker.com

President Trump has been outrageously lied about by Democrats, who invented a claim that he called the coronavirus a "hoax," and he's also been subject to assorted howls of "chaos" and unreadiness and doing nothing–ness from other quarters of the pious left.

Turns out none of this was true. Here's what is true, in Trump's own tweet:



Trump's fast, decisive, and serious action, taken in the smog of the Democrats' impeachment stunt, has saved America from Italy's, Iran's, and South Korea's high casualty and big shutdown fate, saving America lives. Here's more:

New York Times science reporter Donald G. McNeil Jr. noted that the Trump administration took "aggressive measures like barring entry to non-Americans who were recently in China and advising Americans not to go to China or South Korea," and that this strategy worked, despite the fact that the World Health Organization officially opposes travel and trade restrictions, and "reiterated that even as it declared the epidemic a global emergency on Jan. 30."

Republican Senator Tom Cotton said on Friday that "The single most consequential and valuable thing done to stop this virus from already spreading throughout the United States was when President Trump decided to shut down travel to China last month." He also acknowledged that "the so-called experts who opposed the decision at the time" eventually admitted that it "bought valuable time to prevent the spread of this virus in the United States."

We know that it was painful for them to "admit" this, forced into crediting President Trump for leadership well done.

There's also the word of China and East Asia expert Gordon Chang:







China was in denial. South Korea was in denial. South Korea was even prioritizing good relations with China over its own citizens' welfare. It's likely that at least some of the other hard-hit countries enacted the same position. Only Trump recognized the threat for what it was and took the only known steps that could stop it, by shutting the border, even as the left howled.

Now the U.S. is largely safe from the coronavirus, fingers crossed, but the nations that dismissed the threat are suffering significantly. Obviously, we all want everyone to get well who's affected. But it's worth noting that these new infections need never have happened. Next time, these affected nations ought to listen and follow President Trump, a man who consistently recognizes enemies both political and external.

Kudos to our president. This man protected us in the face of harm and ignored the flak he got for it, and the results now speak for themselves.

So what specifically regarding Trump's actions do you have a problem with? Or is this just Orange Man Bad? Trump even ignored the reckless and unintelligent advice from the WHO and still took decisive action.

 

[JessFR]

I've already told you what actions of his I have a problem with, twice. His administration is a shambles. With him saying one thing only for other executive representatives to say the opposite. Reducing resources for health care and pandemic response for years. It's beyond obvious that he is incompetent and only acts in his own interests with no care at all for the interests of the country. Expecting loyalty to himself personally like he were a dictator, and then calling anyone who prioritized the country they serve over him as disloyal. It's all a joke. It's all a bad joke.

I don't care what the democrats supposedly said, I don't care what the "leftists" supposedly said, I don't care about their hypocrisy. You clearly do, but I don't. I am not "the left", I am not "the democrats". I'm an individual not the personification of some political group. So I don't really care what they said or did.

 

[JGrimez]

So vague.... not a response to concrete examples of direct action. Sounds like anti-Trump blahblah.

"Reducing resources for health care" can be re-framed from "cutting wasteful expenditure". The power of perception.

And you should care what Leftists say or do because you parrot or align with many of their talking points, so I know where you're getting them from even if you don't know or don't care.

 

[JessFR]

There's nothing wasteful about pandemic preparedness. He cut funding to the CDC. Got rid of the the people responsible for pandemics on the NSC. Appointed Mike Pence, a man who's record on health is health policy is quite poor, rather than someone more knowledgeable to handle the response.

That's not eliminating waste. It's incompetence and dereliction of duty.

.
And you should care what Leftists say or do because you parrot or align with many of their talking points, so I know where you're getting them from even if you don't know or don't care.

And this is exactly why your constant claims of being "insulted and attacked" for your views are so hypocritical. You act all offended for being called a climate denier for denying climate change, but so readily just label people "the left" and say they just parrot what they hear. All the while frequently brazenly parroting shit by just posting links to shit you agree with and not actually saying anything of your own. Even right now on the Coronavirus thread you have piles of links and quotes of articles having said barely anything of your own. I actually write my own posts in my own words and you say I'm the parrot!. It's such hypocrisy.

You can and will believe whatever you like. But if you keep just pointing to "the left did this" or "Obama did that" I'm just gonna keep ignoring it. I'm not Obama, I'm not "the left".

 

[JGrimez]

He cut funding to the CDC.

Almost half of the WHO's taxpayer-funded $2 billion budget went to 1st class airfares and 5* hotels. Roughly 1/4 of their budget is paid by US taxpayers. If Trump cut funding to the WHO then you'd claim he's being dangerous and incompetent, yet I'd bet you don't care enough to actually look at where that money is going, if it is being wasted, and if it would be more responsible to allocate it elsewhere. It's simply "Trump cut funding therefore that's a bad move and Trump is stupid". I don't buy it.

That's not eliminating waste. It's incompetence and dereliction of duty.

Via your assumptions.

And this is exactly why your constant claims of being "insulted and attacked" for your views are so hypocritical. You act all offended for being called a climate denier for denying climate change

calling me a climate change denier would be the equivalent of me calling you a libtard or a snowflake. Calling someone a Leftist when they espouse Leftist views is not offensive, because that's the actual name of the group that they align with. If you called me anthropogenic global warming skeptic, I wouldn't be offended for simply being placed into that category for espousing those views. You don't seem to understand that "climate change denier" is a slur and an insult that's meant to discredit people. "The Left" aren't automatically discredited by using that term, as they do still have (a few) good ideas.

Even right now on the Coronavirus thread you have piles of links and quotes of articles having said barely anything of your own. I actually write my own posts in my own words and you say I'm the parrot!

This is just nonsense. I don't know anything about the virus so I'm linking information that's potentially extremely important and could help people in times of crisis or pandemic. If I was a virologist or immunization specialist then I could offer some of my own thoughts. I am however a political science graduate so I am able to offer many of my own opinions on most other topics that I've come to through personal research.

You can and will believe whatever you like. But if you keep just pointing to "the left did this" or "Obama did that" I'm just gonna keep ignoring it. I'm not Obama, I'm not "the left".

So there's no need to take it personally then, or just go ahead and ignore it. When I point out something like that then it's directed at the people (many here) that absolutely love and adore Obama and excuse and apologize for him for all the fucked up stuff he's done, yet rag on Trump and claim he is evil incarnate for doing things that don't even match to the level of Obama. If that's not you then just ignore it or you could even agree with me.

 

[JessFR]

I see you quote articles saying what you wanna believe every day. You only post the ones you agree with. I've never ever seen you post an article that disagrees with your opinion that I can recall.

calling me a climate change denier would be the equivalent of me calling you a libtard or a snowflake. Calling someone a Leftist when they espouse Leftist views is not offensive, because that's the actual name of the group that they align with.

Who provides the official names of these groups? What department is responsible for determining that "leftist" is proper while "climate denier" isn't?

Nobody does. So suggesting that your offensive labels are fine while others aren't on the basis that in your determination one is "official" and another isn't or one's offensive and one's not is a very weak argument.

You're not in charge of determining what is an offensive label and what isn't. Now you could argue that people should respect other people's preferences and avoid insulting them provided the request is reasonable. The problem is that you don't do it yourself. You just decide that terms you don't like are wrong while one's other people don't like are fine. Climate denier is wrong. But calling someone a Leftist or brainwashed is fine? Bull.. Shit..

 

[JGrimez]

Who provides the official names of these groups? What department is responsible for determining that "leftist" is proper while "climate denier" isn't?

Study political theory to get an understand of left-wing and right-wing. Nobody "denies climate" (what does that even mean?) and nobody credibly denies that the climate changes. So by calling someone a "climate change denier" when they're a manmade global warming skeptic, you're manipulating language in order to attack and dismiss credible opposition.

You're not in charge of determining what is an offensive label and what isn't.

Ohhhh, so who is?? Leftists?? Are you denying that I am offended when people use blatantly incorrect and dismissive terms to label me? When I criticize Leftists, it's because the Left-wing espouse a view that I disagree with.

Now you could argue that people should respect other people's preferences and avoid insulting them provided the request is reasonable.

Those are the rules here. I just want the rules to be applied equally and calling me something ridiculous like "climate change denier" is insulting and offensive to me, a student of language and science (it violates both). I don't personally call you a Leftist after you requested that I did not (even though I don't think that term is offensive or insulting) yet you continue to call me a denier (with all the unintended connotations of denying the Holocaust).

The problem is that you don't do it yourself. You just decide that terms you don't like are wrong while one's other people don't like are fine. Climate denier is wrong. But calling someone a Leftist or brainwashed is fine? Bull.. Shit..

I can see how 'brainwashed' could come off as offensive, but calling someone a Leftist? That just means that you think that there's something wrong with the Left, but it is a legitimate political label.

 

[JessFR]

What does being leftist mean, how can politics be left or right?

It's a label, and like many others people know full well it's not strictly literal. Just as "climate denier" isn't someone who denies the existence of climate. And "brainwashing" doesn't literally mean a washed brain. How can you take out and wash a brain?

You seem to only struggle comprehending the terms that you don't like. Climate denial is a very commonly used term. Now sometimes what people find offensive isn't entirely rational, and I'm inclined to try and not use the term climate denial if it offends you so much.

What I won't however do is stay silent when you keep doing the same kinda thing all the time and come up with these excuses for it.

 

[JGrimez]

What does being leftist mean, how can politics be left or right?

You're a moderator on a politics sub-forum. That's how people are grouped based on their ideas. So not that long ago, just a few years the political spectrum was quite different. People who held certain beliefs back then were called liberals, but we now we call them classical liberals, because the left-wing of politics seems to have been hijacked and pushed to very extreme Left. So those people who refused to radicalize and were left behind became either politically homeless (sometimes called political refugees). Or they began to feel more at home with right-wingers (who really just seemed normal and sensible), so the Left radicalizing may have even influence many 'classical liberals' to become more conservative in their views. But the Rightwing in general has also shifted noticeably left too.

It's a label, and like many others people know full well it's not strictly literal. Just as "climate denier" isn't someone who denies the existence of climate. And "brainwashing" doesn't literally mean a washed brain. How can you take out and wash a brain?

There are people out there. Extremely intelligent people. PhDs, climate scientists, acclaimed scientists in many fields, who have published peer-reviewed papers, who are skeptical of anthropogenic global warming. You would consider them "climate change deniers". If you called them that to their face many would be offended. So you would risk offence based on something that you understand far less than them, or it would be from your assumptions that every single one of them is working for nefarious interests. If I met a trans person I would call them "she" even if I personally don't believe that they're a woman. Because I'm a decent person and I don't like to offend people (unless they start it).

You seem to only struggle comprehending the terms that you don't like. Climate denial is a very commonly used term.

Another commonly used term is "you can't be racist against white people". Just because it's commonly used doesn't mean it's correct or that we should even use it. I assume that there are certain words that you don't say because it's offensive to certain groups.

Now sometimes what people find offensive isn't entirely rational, and I'm inclined to try and not use the term climate denial if it offends you so much.

I'd prefer if you didn't because it's also generally used in a dismissive or discrediting manner. You can just say 'skeptic' and that's even less letters so easier for you to type. Also for your own sake, because people who use that term do not come across as intelligent or as independent-thinkers.

What I won't however do is stay silent when you keep doing the same kinda thing all the time and come up with these excuses for it.

I will work on being less loose with labels and flippant insults.

 

[alasdairm]

Fed study: Trump tariffs backfired, caused job losses and higher prices

President Trump's tariffs on imports — meant to boost the economy — ultimately led to job losses and higher prices, a new study from the Federal Reserve has found.

"We find that tariff increases enacted in 2018 are associated with relative reductions in manufacturing employment and relative increases in producer prices," the report by Fed economists Aaron Flaaen and Justin Pierce reads.

tired of winning yet?



alasdair

 

[JGrimez]

"Does anyone get the feeling that some groups would like to use this outbreak to attack President Trump?"

We already know the answer to that is yes. When Trump specifically ordered that people weren't brought to the US from somewhere (I can't remember if it was Korea or Japan), and that if it was necessary, he was to be informed first...

...some agents from the State Department arranged for them to be flown directly into the US, and didn't inform Trump or, apparently, the chain of command until they were basically here.

YES, there are absolutely people in our government and society trying to increase a Covid outbreak here, despite the hardship and even death it would cause, as well as to cause a recession ENTIRELY so they can beat Trump.

and yes, that's terrifying to think about.

 

[JessFR]

As I recall those people were Americans.

Americans have an absolute right not to have their government deny them entry. They can be quarantined or isolated at home. Which is exactly what happened. Their actions won't cause more people to die, that's crap.

But noo, trump is a narcissist and famous germophobe. So all that matters is he feels safe and the constitution and peoples rights be damned. Right JGrimez?

This is why trump disgusts me as a president. He doesn't give a crap about America, or Americans. It's all always about himself. His personal concerns. The law doesn't matter, the people don't matter, other than their utility to him. It's deplorable.

Once again "deep state" is code for people in authority who remember they never swore a personal oath to trump.

Washington Post: Trump furious after officials let Americans with coronavirus return to US from Japan

President Donald Trump became enraged with senior advisers this week when 14 Americans who tested positive for the coronavirus were brought back to the US from Japan after he had been told they would remain quarantined overseas, administration officials told The Washington Post.

amp.cnn.com

 

[JGrimez]

Americans have an absolute right not to have their government deny them entry. They can be quarantined or isolated at home. Which is exactly what happened. Their actions won't cause more people to die, that's crap.

They were flown back on a plane with non-infected passengers. If that happened contrary to Trump's wishes, or he wasn't notified about it, and then it was published in the media and he copped the blame for it - then that's unfair, disingenuous and quite frankly TDS-level behavior.

 

[JessFR]

They were flown back on a plane with non-infected passengers. If that happened contrary to Trump's wishes, or he wasn't notified about it, and then it was published in the media and he copped the blame for it - then that's unfair, disingenuous and quite frankly TDS-level behavior.

I haven't seen anyone blame trump for them being brought back. Have you?

They probably shouldn't have been flown back on a public plane I agree. From what I've heard precautions were taken to keep them isolated from the other Passanger. But I'd agree that's probably not good enough.

But the point I'm making is they should have been flown back. Take the precautions that need to be taken, but trump has no right to stop Americans returning home.

Id say it was also disingenuous that you didn't see fit to mention that these were Americans being brought home in your initial post.