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US Politics The 2020 Trump Presidency Thread

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I don't see the evidence behind the FBI as pro-Clinton* when literally the most consequential action on the part of the agency during 2016 hurt Clinton's campaign. I remember that moment in 2016 well, it came about towards the end as the race tightened, in the aftermath of some of the incidents which had shook Trump's campaign early in the season & without a doubt benefited Trump and his campaign, which is evident by his own public statements during that time period. Whether or not they backtracked later doesn't matter so much, because at that point it had already been portrayed as, the head of the FBI has found something so serious and so consequential over the course of this investigation into Hillary Clinton that he's circumventing protocol to let everyone know about it, and they're re-opening the investigation. That's how it was being reported in the media during that time.

Also during 2016, you had the Carter Page FISA stuff etc. But that stuff wasn't in the public consciousness at that time, and the Russia story didn't really take flight until around early 2017, with the Steel Dossier/pee tape etc. allegations from Buzzfeed

*I mean, of course they're pro-Clinton in the sense that Clinton is in the ruling class and, like all law enforcement agencies, they ultimately serve the interests of people with economic and political power. Which is why you can see all kind of shady domestic history of the FBI including in Pine Ridge during the American Indian Movement, the Civil Rights movement, and a variety of other examples. I actually see the allegations re: FISA to be quite serious, they're quite serious allegations violations of the rights of an American citizen (Page). But Trump and some of his supporters claim that, beyond that general framework of the FBI serving primarily the wealthy and powerful, there's a pro-Clinton and anti-Trump partisan faction that's used their public office to conspire against him, and I haven't seen much significant evidence for that. The main FBI story of 2016 was the Clinton email investigation,..as far as 2016 scandals go, the Access Hollywood tape was like a heart attack but the Clinton email (and DNC hack) story was like a slow, degenerative cancer, and the capstone to it all in 2016 was the unsolicited message by Comey.
 
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"was it good? i don't know."

of course you don't know. that would mean making an informed statement.

the category is "best picture" not "best american picture".

alasdair
 
My favorite part is the very end, when he says "best foreign movie! No, it was the - (and then he has one of those Trump brain reset moments) has this ever happened before?"

Yep, pretty sure foreign films have won best picture in the past
 
"was it good? i don't know."

of course you don't know. that would mean making an informed statement.

the category is "best picture" not "best american picture".

alasdair

Hasn't there always been a Best Foreign Film category? I couldn't care at all but it felt in the same vein as a token diversity hire.
 
He hasn't done that at all though. Just because he may have an inflated ego doesn't mean he's abusing his power. He hasn't even really cracked down on immigration

Of course he's done that, he does it all the time. He tweets that he's doing it. Firing people for testifying against him. Interfering in Roger stones sentencing among other judicial matters.

This is the kinda shit authoritarian regimes engage in. It's wrong. And it's so abundantly clear that if you can't see at least that much, then we're really in a lot of trouble.

It's one thing to politically disagree about what to do about immigrants or climate change or something. It's a whole other to not only regularly engage in corrupt behavior and undermine the democratic safeguards that are at the core of our democratic systems.
 
Of course he's done that, he does it all the time. He tweets that he's doing it. Firing people for testifying against him. Interfering in Roger stones sentencing among other judicial matters.

This is the kinda shit authoritarian regimes engage in. It's wrong. And it's so abundantly clear that if you can't see at least that much, then we're really in a lot of trouble.

It's one thing to politically disagree about what to do about immigrants or climate change or something. It's a whole other to not only regularly engage in corrupt behavior and undermine the democratic safeguards that are at the core of our democratic systems.

Considering that Trump has been the most scrutinised, demonised and investigated POTUS in history, if he was engaging in the type of behavior that you're alluding to, then he would have been removed and/or charged. But the irony here is that his detractors are the more corrupt ones engaging in much more corrupt behavior, they just have the power of the establishment to protect them. So in this case the claims and shrieks against Trump are massively exaggerated, overblown, misconstrued etc..
 
Considering that Trump has been the most scrutinised, demonised and investigated POTUS in history, if he was engaging in the type of behavior that you're alluding to, then he would have been removed and/or charged. But the irony here is that his detractors are the more corrupt ones engaging in much more corrupt behavior, they just have the power of the establishment to protect them. So in this case the claims and shrieks against Trump are massively exaggerated, overblown, misconstrued etc..

If you can see what he does in undermining separation of powers. Trying to order apolitical investigative agencies to do him political favors. Pardoning people he likes who've broken the law while using any weapon he has to punish "disloyalty" like the dictators he keeps praising. And you think that's OK just because "ooh well other politicians are corrupt too!".

Then what hope is there for America? And no the biggest contribution trump has made to America is showing us all that the presidency needs way more oversight that it has. That we don't have effective ways to stop such corruption in practice.
 
If you can see what he does in undermining separation of powers.
How so exactly? Before Trump it was the previous administrations (bipartisan) that funneled power towards the executive.

Trying to order apolitical investigative agencies to do him political favors.
Who? Was it illegal?

Pardoning people he likes who've broken the law
Nothing new. Bill Clinton pardoned Mark Rich which was ridiculous. Trump didn't pardon Papadopolous and he worked directly for his campaign. There was one pardon I did agree with because that person was unfairly targeted by Obama (if you want to discuss abusing power, Trump is no match for Obama. But y'know double standards and all that...) I don't know enough about the other people but I would agree with a pardon for Michael Flynn and Roger Stone. The only way that I would disagree with those pardons is if the FBI did their job and prosecuted Hillary, Abedin, Mills, Comey etc for committing the same crimes. Otherwise it's just political attacks. But if you're serious about weeding out corruption, then you must go after the Clinton camp more than the Trump admin.

while using any weapon he has to punish "disloyalty"
Not true in the slightest. He could've sent Jim Comey to jail and he didn't. If someone is disloyal, dishonest or subversive then he has every right to fire them. But you're acting as if he's throwing all of his enemies into jail. While he could (and should), he's not doing anything remotely close to that.

like the dictators he keeps praising.
Diplomacy is fine if it can improve global security and help prevent any conflicts. I got no problem with him stroking Kim Jong's ego if that relaxes tensions in the region (which it seemingly has). This is such a lame accusation... Roosevelt met with Stalin.

And you think that's OK just because "ooh well other politicians are corrupt too!".
I don't think it's OK for governments or politicians to be corrupt., just come with something substantial and I'll agree with you (as I've written about I've got plenty of gripes with Trump).

en what hope is there for America? And no the biggest contribution trump has made to America is showing us all that the presidency needs way more oversight that it has.
One of the upsides to Trump winning is him exposing a lot of corruption within the government, especially the FBI. Too bad a lot of people don't see it this way because they're on the side of the FBI since they're attacking Trump. So if that's the sentiment, then one doesn't actually care about corruption. It's phony.

That we don't have effective ways to stop such corruption in practice.
It's funny because you don't seem to care (or actively deflect/dismiss) the anti-Trump corruption. That's all well and good for some people. Or it's not even corruption at all because it's going after Trump's alleged corruption. This is why I don't take feigned outrage or crocodile tears seriously.

For example if you don't think Hillary should be in jail for her extremely serious abuses of classified information yet you're all gung-ho against what Trump has done (which is nothing compared to that) then you're a hypocrite, an unreasonable never-Trumper and I'm gonna find it hard to take your criticisms seriously.
 
Did you know:

Russia donated over $145,000,000 to the Clinton Foundation

Hillary Clinton sold 20% America’s Uranium to Vladimir Putin

Yet she's calling President Trump "Putin's Puppet," despite the fact that a 3 year, 40 million dollar investigation found no collusion.

🤔
 
yesterday president trump appointed richard grenell as acting director of national intelligence.
  • grenell has no intelligence experience
  • grenell did consulting work for a moldovan politician who is barred form entering the u.s. under anti-corruption sanctions
  • grenell failed to disclose the work under the foreign agents registration act
  • official policy of the office grenell now leads specifies that among the “conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying” are: “Failure to report or fully disclose, when required, association with a foreign person, group, government or country; “Substantial business, financial, or property interests in a foreign country … that could subject the individual to a heightened risk of foreign influence or exploitation or personal conflict of interest”; “Acting to serve the interest of a foreign person, group, organization or government in any way that conflicts with U.S. national security interests”
  • kel mcclanahan - executive director of national security counselors, a d.c.-area non-profit, public interest law firm which specializes in national security law and information and privacy law - “If he were one of my clients and just a normal [federal employee], he would almost assuredly not have a clearance.” (my emphasis)
he's now the acting director of national intelligence.

only the best people...

alasdair
 
Looks like a good move, Grenell wasn't too popular in occupied Germany. Director of National Intelligence is an oxymoron.

Do you dismiss him because because he is gay republican? or for some other reason? perhaps like not being gay and a registered democrat? He really can't do much worse than the Booz Hamilton asshat he is replacing.

Aldrich Ames had huge amounts of intelligence experience as did Christopher Steele, look where that lead.

Trump is an asshole, but there doesn't seem many bright shining lights on the other side either, I nominate Maxine Waters for director of national intelligence.
 
i didn't even know he was gay.

i dismiss him as he appears unqualified and corruptible and, as such, a security risk.

#fillingtheswamp

alasdair
 
Hate to sound like a broken record but if this was on the other foot the media would not stfu about it. Especially if it was a white perpetrator and they could blame it on dangerous white supremacy:


"A couple in Indiana were arrested after allegedly driving two teenage boys off a road because their bikes had Pres. Donald Trump flags attached to them, police said." https://t.co/t0v6qaNBbI
 
Appears based on what?

You can't be that dense. Is this intentional, this 'based on what?', right after he laid out several points to support his view? You may not agree that the points support that view, but you seriously cannot post such a response unless you're trying to troll.
 
You can't be that dense. Is this intentional, this 'based on what?', right after he laid out several points to support his view? You may not agree that the points support that view, but you seriously cannot post such a response unless you're trying to troll.

I just woke up gimme a break
 
he asked me why i dismiss him and i answered. i'm not trolling.

alasdair
The point is you clearly run a double standard. Any Trump appointee is woefully under qualified a security risk or whatever. It is a cheap shot.
There are plenty of Obama appointees who bought their positions were utterly incompetent and clear security risks. Even the GAO had raised eyebrows whan it came to Obama appointees and the revolving door.
You are holding Trumpian appointees to a standard that Obama appointees didn't make, it is sad how low the bar is but failing to clear it is not just a trumpian failing. I really dislike Trump and everything he is, but I do like how we get to see behind the curtain at the bullshit in glorious technicolor.

They are all equally useless, corrupt and pointless, Trumpian appointees are nothing special in that regard. The general term for this complete incompetence and general ineptitude is Government.

On that basis we could discuss for example the pluses and minuses of say Geoffrey R. Pyatt? an Obama appointee? Or shall we discuss the behavior of Dem linked advisors selling pay to play access under Obama? Nursultan Nazabayev buying access for example
 
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