tathra
bluelighter
"all or nothing" is only how i do my drugs. i buy my plug out and then shoot it all in one shot ?
Election 2020 The 2020 Candidates: Right, Left and Center!
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Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
oh baby that's how I like it too
I would debate shadow more on the classes of society thing but I'm hanging IRL with someone so I'll probably just stfu and let y'all be right for a change.
I would debate shadow more on the classes of society thing but I'm hanging IRL with someone so I'll probably just stfu and let y'all be right for a change.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
I'm curious how BLers feel about the Dems wanting felons to have the right to vote? Of course, the right paints it as killers and rapists, when in fact there are a shit ton of convicted felons who are for the most part a normal average American who violated the law (I'm thinking of some of my BLer friends, as a matter of fact). So, are we good with the platform of giving felons the right to vote? Is it viewed by you as a ploy to get more votes on the part of the Democrats, or an effort to be more fair to your average American in general (I am confident there are plenty of Rep felons, they aren't all Dems).
Ref. Article
What's your take. And for those of you leaning left, how do you view the recent words of Mr. Sanders (which I'll note, the right is leading thread titles of "Sanders wants Boston Marathon bomber's vote"):
Ref. Article
What's your take. And for those of you leaning left, how do you view the recent words of Mr. Sanders (which I'll note, the right is leading thread titles of "Sanders wants Boston Marathon bomber's vote"):
cduggles
Bluelight Crew
Bernie made a good case, but for me voting is a 'time served', post-incarceration thing. You lose many of your freedoms in prison, and that includes voting.
I see where he's coming from tho.
I see where he's coming from tho.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I think felons after being released should absolutely be allowed to vote. Actually the whole prison system marginalizes people forever who made a mistake, sometimes that mistake was smoking weed (in certain populations especially). There's no reason you shouldn't be able to live a normal life and have the respect of others and job opportunities, and vote, if you served your time. A buddy of mine had been to prison twice for selling weed, and could basically only get under-the-table jobs, he ended up homeless eventually because no one would hire him or places were not paying him and it was off the books and I haven't seen him since, it was really sad because all he was doing is what numerous states are doing totally legally now.
Anyway, felons IN prison... not sure. I do definitely see Bernie's point, it could be a slippery slope, but you could also just say, if you're in prison, no voting, and that's it. But at the same time, when you combine police targeting of certain populations, there are a lot of people that don't need to be in prison who are, and who have opinions on who should run their country regardless of whether they're in jail or not.
Anyway, felons IN prison... not sure. I do definitely see Bernie's point, it could be a slippery slope, but you could also just say, if you're in prison, no voting, and that's it. But at the same time, when you combine police targeting of certain populations, there are a lot of people that don't need to be in prison who are, and who have opinions on who should run their country regardless of whether they're in jail or not.
cduggles
Bluelight Crew
tathra
bluelighter
like it or not the two choices are bernie or trump
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Yeah, probably... I really hope the "pink scare" of AAHH OMG SOCIALISM!!!11! doesn't make it impossible for him to actually win because I really like the majority of his ideas and feel he has integrity and has been working for civil rights all his life. Some don't realize it but ALL of our civil rights are being systematically eroded and have been for some time.
Pink scare... the dilution of red scare. Basically socialism has been turned into the new bogeyman, drawing on the fear of communism from the cold war era. Which was also purposely instilled through propaganda. Communists are all evil people, obviously, who will eat your children.
Pink scare... the dilution of red scare. Basically socialism has been turned into the new bogeyman, drawing on the fear of communism from the cold war era. Which was also purposely instilled through propaganda. Communists are all evil people, obviously, who will eat your children.
ac360
Bluelighter
I hate how the party has split this cycle around into traditional liberal and then socialist. I'm more moderate which is weird to say because none of these people are moderate the party has just been dragged so far left by bernie propaganda. My picks are Klobuchar, Buttigieg, Swalwell, and Biden. I agree with the really socialist policies actually but first and foremost I seriously doubt bernie, warren, or kamala could ever win a general. My other issue is that the biggest proponents of these policies are sanders and warren have a history of ignorance towards race and are also comeplete frauds, especially bernie. The extreme left of the party always bitches about corporations having so much influence which DUH and you're stupid if you think that's gonna change anytime soon. Also all the lies and ripping apart candidates who dont 100% embrace socialism. The number one priority right now is getting trump out of office not putting up the most liberal dem. The other thing is that the extreme dems are tainting the party as a whole with ideas that would never pass even through a democratic congress. Hardcore berners may as well be democrat MAGA hat wearers, they all spread lies about HRC in 2016 and think a white guy in his late 70s is gonna magically fix all of their problems. It's not gonna happen
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Interesting take. So, you REALLY support the socialist policies, but don't have a candidate that can carry them to the white house? Is the concern over a lack of a strong enough candidate, or that there isn't a majority who support the policies and just need a face?
This is my biggest observation of Dems over the past few years. It's more about tearing down anyone and everyone, without realizing you aren't building anything. Destruction does not inspire, or generate support, or paint any sort of hope for the future. It's about destroying the now, while ignoring the future.
I'll rip on AOC 24/7, but I'll stop here and now and credit her and the others on the New Green Deal. It's full of unrealistic and unattainable wishes, but it is the first look forward I've seen from either party. I'll give her and her peers credit for at least looking forward and putting something out there. While the remaining Dems continue to tear everyone down, even their own party's candidates, I look across the aisle to the Reps who, to me, are sort of in a daze not knowing who they want to be or what they want to put forth...or they just want to stand in Trump's shadow long enough to survive a Dem meltdown and then step out of his shadow and try to be someone later on. Neither party inspires, IMO.
ac360
Bluelighter
Well the socialist policies would not win an election. And we put up the first female major party candidate which gave me and many others an immense amount of hope and optimism and then she was defeated by a misogynist, racist, transphobic, xenophobic, lying, and unqualified candidate. HRC was one of the most qualified candidates ever nominated in a general election and minimal issues in her past were given equal weight with Trump's unprecedented awful comments and fradulent past. So, yes the goal is tearing down what he's done because he goes against our values in every single area. There's no point in putting up a candidate with radical ideals who inspires the dem base, repels independents, and leaves us in 4 more years of hell on earth.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I do agree the most important thing is to get Trump out of office so he won't inflict 4 more years of damage to hard-earned progress that has been made to civil rights for all, environmental protection, and so on. I I do fear with Bernie that the specter of "SOCIALIST" will make it impossible for him to win. I hope it's not the case though because I like his ideas for the most part and he's had a long history of fighting for civil rights.
How is Bernie a fraud, ac360? Genuine question as to me he seems like the most believable candidate in terms of not bullshitting and saying what he means.
How is Bernie a fraud, ac360? Genuine question as to me he seems like the most believable candidate in terms of not bullshitting and saying what he means.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Well, you certainly make your position very, very clear. Thank you.
I'm curious, then, how you view Trump's win? Was it because the majority of America thought he was a better choice? Or that Hillary was a worse choice? I'm not trolling you, I'm honestly wondering your reasoning on Trump's Presidency given HRC was so great and Trump was so wrong...how did he win? What does that say about American majority and the future?
I agree, the socialist policies won't win an election. There's too much ingrained capitalism that would rear up to fight it, I think not just for Reps but for the middle or conservative Dems (albeit quietly). I'll give Dems credit for getting the first African American into the White House, and putting up the first female candidate with a legitimate shot at it. You don't see much beyond the white male same-as-ever offering from the Reps. Though, as others and yourself point out - radical ideas won't win the White House, so Dems have to be somewhat tamed from the far left and Socialist corners in order to draw a majority vote. But can they, when they are tearing at eachother so much? I'm not sure of it, but it very much feels like a split within the party is not far away, and that will leave both parts too small to win, IMO.
Quite the image, but probably not far off.
ac360
Bluelighter
He's promoting an agenda he could never implement, talks about all of the greed of millionaires while being one, claims to be in support of minority rights but has diminished or dismissed the issue on multiple occasions. He is running in the democratic primary meanwhile tearing the party apart and will rescind back to being an independent after this bid just like 2016.
ac360
Bluelighter
I would say that Trump won because there is a nasty group in the country that supports all of his hateful rhetoric and backwards policies. I'd also say that Hillary's treatment in general was due to her gender, from part of the bernie and trump coalitions, the people who went from Bernie to Trump after HRC won the nomination. Also I'm sure you predicted I would bring up that 3 million more Americans voted for Hillary so it's not the majority are behind him, and he has the lowest approval rating of any president in recent history. I see the election of Trump as the resurgence of backwards ideals following the first black president and the legitimate chance of a woman doing so. His really unprofessional way of speaking (I'm not sure how to describe it) was also appealing although I still don't know why. He also hyped up racism and fear of immigrants and muslims in those already backwards voters. Outside of the diehards, I assume it was an anything-but-a-democrat idea as well as the now proven lie that Trump is a good businessman and his name recognition.
tathra
bluelighter
except they will?
fox news viewers responded extremely well to bernie and his "socialist" policies. fox news viewers
fox news viewers also support bernie more than trump
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Well he was relatively wealthy (but under $1M) before he wrote a book pretty recently, which put him solidly into millionaire status. So I hardly think he qualifies as one of those corporate fat-cats. And he's been in politics a LONG time, too. Most of those guys are extremely wealthy. I mean what if you wrote a book and it sold well and you made $3 million off of it? Should we fault you for that?
I get the running as a Democrat thing, sort of. But on the other hand does he want a chance of actually winning so he can try running the country as he feels would be best? He can't run independent.
I watched a debate he had with some people and what he was saying made sense to me. He was talking about how to pay for what his plans are. Socialized healthcare is not a pipe dream. We could do that, it's about using tax money for something that benefits society instead of stuff that benefits the wealthy.
I can admit it seems like it would be difficult to pass such legislation given where we're at But does that mean we shouldn't have someone trying? If no one tries it definitely won't happen.
Anyway I think some of the stuff you're attributing to him is rather unfair and not something I agree makes him a fraud.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
I didn't know if you would or not, but even when I wrote my words I knew it wasn't the right wording.
While I'm not a die hard Trump fan (if I sound like one at times, it's mostly a weak attempt on my part at poking my lefty friends in here), you may find that you and I have very different views of the same events. With that said, I greatly appreciate your honesty and respect your views. Thank you very much for answering my questions. Cheers.
ac360
Bluelighter
Yes, he garners a lot of praise from his speeches and lots of his ideas, like medicare for all. But the devil's in the details. Support for universal healthcare is extremely high in polling. But private insurance elimination has a very low approval rating.
Yes we need healthcare for everyone and single payer absolutely. But single payer will take a while to implement, and this goes back to my main point that these ideas will stay ideas if we lose the next election. Why even bring all of this up? Trump has handed the dems a silver platter of vulnerabilities to target him on.
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