The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

alasdairm · Nov 23, 2019

further, when the subject of gun control is raised, for right-leaners, the gun lobby and politicians in their pocket the u.s. constitution is sacrosanct but when it comes to article ii section 4, it might as well be toilet paper.

alasdair

Interested in other research studies? Find more drug studies.

JessFR · Nov 23, 2019

JGrimez, I am so fucking sick of you lumping everyone who opposes trump together into this group of "the left" personified. Assuming everyone who opposes trump does so for the same reasons, in the same way, and supports the same alternative people.

You do it even long after people like myself have outright told you that no, they don't support Hillary. Or they would want to have seen Obama impeached.

Because really, I don't think you're arguing with any of us. You're arguing with your imaginary homogenized left wing enemy that you just consider anyone opposed to trump to represent.

I mean, it's so obvious given that much of the time you don't even pretend you're arguing with actual people here on bluelight, you randomly assign positions to people based on your existing notion of "the left wing pro Hillary anti trump liberal". Even after they've told you they don't hold those positions, you just do it again, using counter arguments of hypocrisy based on actions that were never taken by the person you're arguing with.

I'm so sick of it.

alasdairm · Nov 23, 2019

nicely put. it's also not a little ironic...

alasdair

JGrimez · Nov 23, 2019

OK so if you think Trump deserves to be impeached then I'll put you all into a group. Not necessarily the "Left" but similar in lack of information.

JessFR · Nov 23, 2019

JGrimez said:
OK so if you think Trump deserves to be impeached then I'll put you all into a group. Not necessarily the "Left" but similar in lack of information.

We all make mental assumptions about people to fill in the gaps. That's not the problem. The problem is that you continue to insist those assumptions are right long after people have told you they're wrong. Basically saying "no, you're lying, THIS is your real motive".

JGrimez · Nov 23, 2019

Yes exactly. If your motive is not nefarious then you're simply unwilling to accept information.

Captain.Heroin · Nov 24, 2019

JGrimez said:
Yes exactly. If your motive is not nefarious then you're simply unwilling to accept information.

Oh you're such a moral absolutist, JG. What's nefarious, anyways? Do the ends justify the means? "Some people did something."

Forgiveness is a virtue, and it's for you, not them.

Xorkoth · Nov 25, 2019

JessFR said:
He has shown politicians everywhere that it actually doesn't matter how absurd it is to say an obvious truth is a lie. You can still get away with it and maintain support.

Yeah, Britain's right wing faction has learned a lot from it, they're doing the same thing right now. In fact it's kinda crazy, they basically have their own Trump, it's the same thing that's going on there right now.

JGrimez said:
And JessFR just because someone is the president that doesn't mean that they can do anything they want. The separation of powers still exists and the executive is constrained by others in terms of what he can do.

Right... that's the entire point of the argument that there is a problem with the Trump presidency. He does whatever he wants and we should hold him accountable for that.

JGrimez said:
Legislatively what is he doing that's so bad? And I mean like seriously bad to the point where he must be removed even by using underhanded means.

Top 5 worst abuses of his power?

Also I don't see how this is underhanded. Or unprecedented. Nixon did less and got impeached and does anyone say it was underhanded or problematic (these days that is, I'm sure they did they did then)?

I am going to quote a paragraph from an article I read that sums up why the investigation is legitimate:

The vice president’s words align with Alexander Hamilton’s understanding of impeachable offenses — which he defined in “The Federalist” No. 65 as “[abuses] … of public trust.” And the abuse of public trust that our founders were most afraid of was coordination with foreign powers. In fact, when James Madison proposed including impeachment in the Constitution, he explicitly said he did so in part to ensure that no president would “betray his trust to foreign powers.” Even one of the early opponents of impeachment at the constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, Gouverneur Morris, later conceded that “no one would say that we ought to expose ourselves to the danger of seeing the first Magistrate in foreign pay.” And in his farewell address, George Washington called “foreign influence … one of the most baneful foes of republican government.”

So you can call it "fake news". But if one believes that Trump is, in fact, being influenced by foreign powers, one would be remiss in one's civic duty to do nothing and say "nah, everything here is fine". Although he HAS committed a crime (section 201(b)(2) specifies that it is illegal for public officials to accept anything of personal value from foreign governments, it is not necessary to commit a crime to impeach. The goal is to have a mechanism to remove a president who is damaging the country. So instead of characterizing Trump opposers as blind sheep being led to hate on poor Trump by the liberal media, realize that we are doing our civic duty. Even if it turns out that somehow you guys are right and Trump is the greatest president ever in the history books, we will still be motivated by doing what is right for the benefit of all in opposing him.

Ganjcat · Nov 25, 2019

Xorkoth said:
Yeah, Britain's right wing faction has learned a lot from it, they're doing the same thing right now. In fact it's kinda crazy, they basically have their own Trump, it's the same thing that's going on there right now.

Right... that's the entire point of the argument that there is a problem with the Trump presidency. He does whatever he wants and we should hold him accountable for that.

Also I don't see how this is underhanded. Or unprecedented. Nixon did less and got impeached and does anyone say it was underhanded or problematic (these days that is, I'm sure they did they did then)?

I am going to quote a paragraph from an article I read that sums up why the investigation is legitimate:

So you can call it "fake news". But if one believes that Trump is, in fact, being influenced by foreign powers, one would be remiss in one's civic duty to do nothing and say "nah, everything here is fine". Although he HAS committed a crime (section 201(b)(2) specifies that it is illegal for public officials to accept anything of personal value from foreign governments, it is not necessary to commit a crime to impeach. The goal is to have a mechanism to remove a president who is damaging the country. So instead of characterizing Trump opposers as blind sheep being led to hate on poor Trump by the liberal media, realize that we are doing our civic duty. Even if it turns out that somehow you guys are right and Trump is the greatest president ever in the history books, we will still be motivated by doing what is right for the benefit of all in opposing him.

britain has their own trump? Whoes that then lol?

Ganjcat · Nov 25, 2019

We will never get someone with as much balls as trump although trump has had a healthy influence on global politics and made politicans more ballsy

Xorkoth · Nov 25, 2019

Your prime minister Boris Johnson. I just see a lot of similarities. And also with what's going on with you guys right now, your right wing leadership basically selling you guys out for the sake of big business by trying to leave the EU to deregulate and privatize everything.

Ganjcat · Nov 25, 2019

Xorkoth said:
Your prime minister Boris Johnson. I just see a lot of similarities. And also with what's going on with you guys right now, your right wing leadership basically selling you guys out for the sake of big business by trying to leave the EU to deregulate and privatize everything.

Hmm boris, yes I can see that but he is nothing like trump no where near his level boris was singing a completely different tune a few months ago but now hes pm he simply has to say and do what he is saying and doing now as for what else you said I have no idea I dont really pay attenion to politics personally i do hope we leave the eu but the novelty of being free from the eu has long worn off ill tell you though, Shadow when we finslly do leave it will be big i dont know how it will go down maybe just boris and the other eu leaders Merkyl, macron etc all signing a peace of paper in front of the press that will have some sort of agreement about the boarders or whatever i dont know why anyone puts any emotion or energy into this crap anymore i do enjoy seeing what the Americans think of our country and politics we do have a 'special' relationship after all

Ganjcat · Nov 25, 2019

Everyone knows America is gay for England

phenethylo J · Nov 25, 2019

Ganjcat said:
We will never get someone with as much balls as trump although trump has had a healthy influence on global politics and made politicans more ballsy

Courage and bravery requires an actual conceptual understanding what you are doing otherwise your just a peasant blindly waving your sword around in an emotionally induced fit of rage.

Ganjcat · Nov 25, 2019

phenethylo J said:
Courage and bravery requires an actual conceptual understanding what you are doing otherwise your just a peasant blindly waving your sword around in an emotionally induced fit of rage.

Hmm I suppose

JGrimez · Nov 25, 2019

Xorkoth the point is that all of that is bullshit. You're acting as if hearsay and unfounded accusations without evidence are legitimate enough to justify Trump's removal. That's not true, it's a lie, it's baloney.

The irony here is that the only foreign state that Trump is being influenced by is ISRAEL, but for the same idiots that think that this circus against Trump is legitimate, that factual opinion would be dismissed as false and antisemitism.

What a world...

Ganjcat · Nov 25, 2019

JGrimez said:
Xorkoth the point is that all of that is bullshit. You're acting as if hearsay and unfounded accusations without evidence are legitimate enough to justify Trump's removal. That's not true, it's a lie, it's baloney.

The irony here is that the only foreign state that Trump is being influenced by is ISRAEL, but for the same idiots that think that this circus against Trump is legitimate, that factual opinion would be dismissed as false and antisemitism.

What a world...

Dont the israels and middle eastern rich leaders secretly own our politicians? I wonder how much profit they are making from the immigration disaster

JGrimez · Nov 25, 2019

A lot no doubt.

And it's not a secret it's just not allowed to be spoken about, even though it's obvious.

JGrimez · Nov 25, 2019

This will be a tough one for some.

Attack Trump vs admit false flags are real

Sexed-up dossier furore over alleged poison gas attack by Assad

A dissenting scientist, employed by OPCW says in the email that investigations on the ground at Douma have produced no hard evidence that the alleged gas attack took place.

www.dailymail.co.uk

MonkeysOnEcstacy · Nov 29, 2019

This could probably use it's own thread but I will leave to mods discretion.

Couple different b sources

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