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The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

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MonkeysOnEcstacy said:
So if someone is out there ordering murders and Trump is playing quid pro quo politics, which is the crime you choose to investigate first?
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if it's the government executing people then the president is still ultimately responsible. even if he's not actively ordering it he's still refusing to put a stop to it. so both are investigations of presidential corruption
 
Haven't you ever heard of qanon @tathra?

President Trump is the protagonist of his own TV show like plot line where he is single handedly fighting a brave fight against the deep state. He's a hero!

God I love qanon. Easily my favorite conspiracy.
 
tathra said:
yeah I've heard of qanon, they clearly need help with their delusions
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The only help they need is help getting their beliefs made into a TV show.

Id totally pay money to watch a show with their hero version of trump fighting the deep state. It sounds great. :D

OK in all seriousness though. These aren't delusions. I mean they are in the more literal "beliefs that aren't true" meaning, but they aren't in the "mentally ill" meaning.

Unfortunately, the human mind is very prone to becoming entrapped into false beliefs. The cognitive biases that cause conspiracy theories to come into existence exist in a large number of otherwise totally normal, healthy people. And to lesser extents exist in everybody.

Suggesting it's mental illness is a dangerous assumption because it suggests that normal people couldn't wind up just as trapped in these kinds of beliefs. And they can.

I've seen it happen. Normal people, hearing a conspiracy theory. Falling down a rabbit hole of bad evidence and exploitation of fallible human thinking, and coming out extremists believing in absurd, grand conspiracys.

You don't have to be mentally ill at all to be a conspiracy theorist.
 
JGrimez said:
there's no need for these types of comments...
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if so, be the change.

i'm surprised that somebody who so freely and frequently insults and criticizes others and questions others' motivations and conclusions can't handle a little gentle ribbing but i know - from high school mostly - that a lot of bullies can 'dish it but not take it' so i suppose i should not be surprised.

i've seen the line move daily over the past couple of years - the demarcation line, that is, up to which trump supporters will defend his actions. it just seems to move and move and move as more and more comes out and republican politicians and trump supporters move the line, excusing his behavior and defending it.

i'm with jess - it's become abundantly clear that president trump abused his power to pressure a foreign country into interfering in the u.s. election. many republican politicians seem (publicly) fine with that. and some trump fans here too.

pence, mulvaney, pompeo and barr all knew what was happening, did nothing to stop it and tried to hide it from congressional oversight and the american public.

for those who don't just write off anything that challenges them as 'fake news' this is an interesting read: Trump and His Corrupt Old Party: For Republicans, there is no bottom.

Formally, the House of Representatives is holding an inquiry into the question of whether Donald J. Trump should be impeached. In reality, we’ve known the answer to that question for a long time. In a different era, when both parties believed in the Constitution, Trump’s abuse of his position for personal gain would have led to his removal from office long ago.

No, what we’re actually witnessing is a test of the depths to which the Republican Party will sink. How much corruption, how much collusion with foreign powers and betrayal of the national interest will that party’s elected representatives stand for?

And the result of that test seems increasingly clear: There is no bottom. The inquiry hasn’t found a smoking gun; it has found what amounts to a smoking battery of artillery. Yet almost no partisan Republicans have turned on Trump and his high-crimes-and-misdemeanors collaborators. Why not?

The answer gets to the heart of what’s wrong with modern American politics: The G.O.P. is now a thoroughly corrupt party. Trump is a symptom, not the disease, and our democracy will remain under dire threat even if and when he’s gone.
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alasdair
 
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Perhaps the most damaging trump has done for politics, not just in America but around the world, was to show everyone that you can just deny everything no matter how much evidence there is, as fake news.

He has shown politicians everywhere that it actually doesn't matter how absurd it is to say an obvious truth is a lie. You can still get away with it and maintain support.

He has shown us, that a significant number of the voting public are willing to go along with any lie no matter how blatent.

That you can literally just say that you never said or did, something everybody saw you do, and get away with it.

And that is possibly the damage that will have the most profound long term repercussions to politics. That, and the power of just ignoring precedent, just ignoring the unspoken rules and doing it anyway.

If he isn't eventually held accountable for that behavior. In the long run it could destroy us long after he's left office.
 
JessFR said:
The only help they need is help getting their beliefs made into a TV show.

Id totally pay money to watch a show with their hero version of trump fighting the deep state. It sounds great. :D

OK in all seriousness though. These aren't delusions. I mean they are in the more literal "beliefs that aren't true" meaning, but they aren't in the "mentally ill" meaning.

Unfortunately, the human mind is very prone to becoming entrapped into false beliefs. The cognitive biases that cause conspiracy theories to come into existence exist in a large number of otherwise totally normal, healthy people. And to lesser extents exist in everybody.

Suggesting it's mental illness is a dangerous assumption because it suggests that normal people couldn't wind up just as trapped in these kinds of beliefs. And they can.

I've seen it happen. Normal people, hearing a conspiracy theory. Falling down a rabbit hole of bad evidence and exploitation of fallible human thinking, and coming out extremists believing in absurd, grand conspiracys.

You don't have to be mentally ill at all to be a conspiracy theorist.
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You can't help yourself lol. Why bring up Qanon and why go on a rant about conspiracy theorists? (again). Are you trying to insinuate that every Trump supporter follows Q?

I see right through the reasons that you give like "Trump is president so he's the most dangerous so we must remove him". Sorry you also need to present a good case against him with some evidence (eventually) and there's been none of that. It's all mostly codswallop.
 
alasdairm said:
if so, be the change.

i'm surprised that somebody who so freely and frequently insults and criticizes others and questions others' motivations and conclusions can't handle a little gentle ribbing but i know - from high school mostly - that a lot of bullies can 'dish it but not take it' so i suppose i should not be surprised.

i've seen the line move daily over the past couple of years - the demarcation line, that is, up to which trump supporters will defend his actions. it just seems to move and move and move as more and more comes out and republican politicians and trump supporters move the line, excusing his behavior and defending it.

i'm with jess - it's become abundantly clear that president trump abused his power to pressure a foreign country into interfering in the u.s. election. many republican politicians seem (publicly) fine with that. and some trump fans here too.

pence, mulvaney, pompeo and barr all knew what was happening, did nothing to stop it and tried to hide it from congressional oversight and the american public.

for those who don't just write off anything that challenges them as 'fake news' this is an interesting read: Trump and His Corrupt Old Party: For Republicans, there is no bottom.



alasdair
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Great post, I'm glad you've used your personal intellect, common sense and research skills to come to the objective conclusion that Trump has been extremely naughty and is deserving of impeachment and removal. When all this fizzles out and becomes obvious to everyone that it was unfounded partisan attacks like the Mueller probe, then I wonder what other reasons you're going to be using in a few months...

Like seriously aren't you sick of doing this over and over and being wrong/misled constantly?
 
And JessFR just because someone is the president that doesn't mean that they can do anything they want. The separation of powers still exists and the executive is constrained by others in terms of what he can do.
 
Also these accusations presuppose that Trump was actually concerned about Biden running against him. Which is literally laughable. Biden can't even string a sentence together. All that stuff with his son was already public knowledge. Biden is on video laughing about how he withheld aid to a foreign country until they fired a prosecutor who was investigating his son.

Lol.

And Trump is the bad dude here...

The hypocrisy and feigned outrage are sooo blatant. I don't even need to try...
 
JGrimez said:
Great post, I'm glad you've used your personal intellect, common sense and research skills to come to the objective conclusion that Trump has been extremely naughty and is deserving of impeachment and removal. When all this fizzles out and becomes obvious to everyone that it was unfounded partisan attacks like the Mueller probe, then I wonder what other reasons you're going to be using in a few months...

Like seriously aren't you sick of doing this over and over and being wrong/misled constantly?
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q.e.d.

alasdair
 
Legislatively what is he doing that's so bad? And I mean like seriously bad to the point where he must be removed even by using underhanded means.

Top 5 worst abuses of his power?
 
There's nothing underhanded about impeachment. It's a system provided by the constitution whereby congress, whom are our elected representatives, remove the president.

People keep acting like it's undemocratic. It may be less democratic, but it's not undemocratic, because everyone involved in the process was democratically elected in the first place.

And what has he done that's so bad? He has repeatedly harmed the system that is the most fundamental instrument of our political system. Election.

Before election, he repeatedly insisted it was rigged, now that he's president, he has been caught trying to use the power of his office to hurt political enemies.

Your power as president is not there for you to attack political rivals. You gotta do that as a private person in an election campaign. If you do it as part of your office, using the power of your office, you have committed a crime and should be removed.

This doesn't just go for the office of president. Any political office used to harm political rivals has been used corruptly, and the individual responsible should be removed from office.

There's a fine line, but trump is over it. He went over it as soon as he tried to tie American aid, part of our national interests, to the actions of a foreign government in trying to hurt a domestic political rival.

That is NOT acceptable. It's not. It's wrong. And I think you know it's wrong.
 
There's a fine line, but trump is over it. He went over it as soon as he tried to tie American aid, part of our national interests, to the actions of a foreign government in trying to hurt a domestic political rival.
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I thought he went over it when he colluded with Putin to expose the truth about Hillary, or when he fired James Comey, or maybe it was when only he was allowed 2 scoops of ice-cream and he put ketchup on his steak..

So if what you are saying is legit then you would've also been demanding the impeachment of Obama when he was abusing his executive power to target many journalists and whistleblowers. He weaponized the IRS against rival political parties and even got an Indian man thrown in jail for making a documentary about him.

Not many demanded impeachment then which is why I can sniff BS quicker than people can say "whataboutism" with regards to their reasons to remove Trump. It's quite evident by now that Trump's actual crime was winning the election and pissing people off. So Trump then had to go and years later through baseless allegations this is where the trail has led us. Imagine if Hillary had won and they went after her the same way. They could have gotten her impeached, removed AND thrown in prison within a month just based on what was on her private server. That's why this circus is so amusing to me (tho also extremely frustrating) because everyone's pretending to care about Trump being too corrupt for politics and ironically the people attacking him are the most corrupt which is probably why they're so freaking desperate to remove him. A type of defensive offense using tons of projection.

Also I'll reiterate, and this is the most important point that there's no evidence against Trump. The desperate veracity that his opponents are going after him now based on a wink-wink nudge is quite telling.
 
And when it is not proportionate to the crimes (or worse, unfounded accusations without evidence) then using the impeachment process to remove an elected leader is extremely underhanded.
 
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