The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

[JGrimez]

if you still think that trump is the friend to the lgbt community he claimed he would be in the campaign, then i think you're simply in denial and, again, seeing what you want to see.

The point is he's officially pro-LGBT and he'll go down in history as the first president to be pro-LGBT upon entering office.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

it's not quite that simple.

if we're just talking about posting content online, then yes, they are protected. and, in the case of individuals pushing propaganda who are not protected, they're effectively protected by national borders.

however, the 1st amendment protects speech. it does not protect fraud so that could be one avenue. election law another.

and we're talking about individuals here. if an attempt to influence an election was carried out by a foreign government they would not be protected (because foreign governments don't have 1st amendment rights).

alasdair

how is an election ad fraud? We can advertise whatever we want. They weren't advertising a product, it was a political ad. Where's the fraud?

I'm all for war-hawking Russia, China into submission by restarting a war against North Korea, don't get me wrong, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.

The point is he's officially pro-LGBT and he'll go down in history as the first president to be pro-LGBT upon entering office.

You must be like 16 and still living with your parents. Wake up.

Do you not remember this? Whether or not Obama ran on LGBT identity politics is totally irrelevant. That's how he'll be remembered.

Or maybe some literature on your level...

 

[JGrimez]

lol what I said is accurate. No need to troll.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What you said is literally misleading and incorrect.

I made the distinction in my post.

How old are you?

 

[alasdairm]

The point is he's officially pro-LGBT and he'll go down in history as the first president to be pro-LGBT upon entering office.

and my point is that he says he is but, in practice he isn't. i can call a fork a spoon - that doesn't make it a spoon.

he also said he'd never take holidays. he's currently at 97 days. he said he'd not waste taxpayer money on those trips. we see how that goes.

he says a lot of things that aren't true. keep drinking the kool aid.

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

how is an election ad fraud? We can advertise whatever we want. They weren't advertising a product, it was a political ad. Where's the fraud?

i didn't say anything specifically about ads. it's a more general point.

alasdair

 

[Xorkoth]

Let's not stoop to insults, everyone.

The point is he's officially pro-LGBT and he'll go down in history as the first president to be pro-LGBT upon entering office.

I mean... okay he's "officially pro-LGBT" why, because he claimed to be? That means absolutely nothing, the only thing that has any meaning are his actions. And his actions have not been friendly towards the LGBT community.

Here is ali's list from before. I removed the Neil Gorsuch one as well as the one about appointing other people with anti-LGBT records because I think they're kind of weak and circumstantial (there could have been other reasons to appoint these people that had nothing to do with LGBT rights):

• he tried to reinstate a ban on transgender people in the military. that ended up in court now and he tried to stall by withholding informationhttps://www.heraldmailmedia.com/new...cle_658622cf-9943-55e1-a735-5a89c401e2e3.html
• in a spectacularly petty move, he refused to recognize pride month
• he rescinded obama-admin guidelines on K-12 schools that receive federal funding (that trans students are protected under federal civil rights law and, therefore, schools should respect trans students' rights). see: Trump just made it official: transgender students no longer have an ally in the White House
• he rescinded an obama memo on trans workers protection under civil rights law. see: Trump?s Justice Department just rescinded a memo protecting transgender workers. that effectively signaled the position that anti-trans discrimination isn't illegal under federal law.
• his justice department argued that anti-trans discrimination is legal. in an amicus brief (see: It's not only the military. Trump's administration just took another big anti-LGBTQ step.), they claimed the federal civil rights act doesn't protect gay and bisexual workers.
• he now seeks to so narrowly define gender - to eradicate the very concept of transgenderism - and roll back recognition and protections of transgender people under federal civil rights law.

I'm familiar with the argument that transgender people in the military shouldn't happen because it will disrupt things, though I disagree it has to be that way. So ignore that one too. Please explain to me how any of the remaining ones are possible if the man is a friend to the LGBT community? While I commend this new global effort, I can't see how it excuses previous problems.

I will agree with you that foreign election interference is a problem. But for the US to sit back and complain about it is actually disgusting. Honestly the only reason we're hearing about it is because Trump won. There wasn't a peep beforehand even though they knew what was going on - because they do it too! And to a far more extreme.

Us having done it to other counntries is unfortunate and wrong and I have a big problem with it, but it doesn't mean I don't also have a problem with someone doing it to us. It's entirely possible, even completely rational, to hold both views at once.

 

[alasdairm]

Please explain to me how any of the remaining ones are possible if the man is a friend to the LGBT community? While I commend this new global effort, I can't see how it excuses previous problems.

indeed.

alasdair

 

[Captain.Heroin]

The Federal Right to Try Act was legendary. Paves the way for what I really wanted out of anyone or anything. Asserting we would never be a socialist nation was also applaudable. Those are the only things I can count and those aren't really LGBT rights that the "community" typically drives hard for.

he refused to recognize pride month

That's not a big loss to me. I don't think I need a month of recognition for being the way I was born. It's not an accomplishment, I was born this way. People deserve accolades and accomplishments for actual accomplishments, not their parents' accomplishment in creating them.

 

[mal3volent]

The Federal Right to Try Act was legendary. Paves the way for what I really wanted out of anyone or anything. Asserting we would never be a socialist nation was also applaudable. Those are the only things I can count and those aren't really LGBT rights that the "community" typically drives hard for.



That's not a big loss to me. I don't think I need a month of recognition for being the way I was born. It's not an accomplishment, I was born this way. People deserve accolades and accomplishments for actual accomplishments, not their parents' accomplishment in creating them.

pride is not just about you or me, it's about the generations before us who had to fight and in some cases die. And take it from me, the United States is not LA. There are plenty of places where you are still putting your physical well being on the line if you want to live your life openly. We can't afford a president who takes us any further backwards.

 

[alasdairm]

That's not a big loss to me.

right. but we're talking about the bigger picture aren't we?

trump campaigned saying he'd be a good friend to the lgbt community. you would think a 'friend' would, if not celebrate pride, at least recognize it.

not very friendly for a friend.

alasdair

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Think about all the white nationalists who assert the same thing, that their people died for their racial right to be white. Should we have a white pride month? I'd say no.

I'm not all about the pride, guys. It's not something I'm particularly proud about. Even if I didn't get to act this way I would still be this way. The appreciable difference is negligible when my quality of life is depreciated due to a war on drugs, national debt, and a plethora of other things I don't want to get into.

I do respect the pride aspect that others want to defend though and I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, literally. I like the gay parade images, you'll just never see me in one of 'em, I'm fairly sure.

the United States is not LA. There are plenty of places where you are still putting your physical well being on the line if you want to live your life openly. We can't afford a president who takes us any further backwards.

Point taken and deeply appreciated, having not lived here my whole life I do understand that. Of course I'm against Trump. My main issue is that the Dems are going to bend over and take it by asking for too much out of a nation that openly embraced MAGA.

How do you talk down the white nationalist terrorist about to blow up the whole nation, collectively, through a vote for Trump? How do you connect with that mindset? Medicare for all and college for all isn't going to appeal to them. Appeal through balancing the budget; CRJS reform (what Trump PRETENDS to do but DOESN'T, something Bill C. somewhat struggled with as well; something Obama largely ignored other than the crack/coke dichotomy etc), PUSH FOR OPEN BORDERS, keep pushing for civil rights. Hillary's platform was a lot more welcoming to the whole of the country.

Just some words. No need to change your ideas if you're fairly certain of them, guys. Just food for thought.

I really appreciate being able to share certain ideas without stepping on toes too heavily. I love the bridge of different political ideas that get discussed here, so feel free to poke holes in my theories all you guys want. Don't take my words too harshly. I'm just thinking/living out loud here.

right. but we're talking about the bigger picture aren't we?

trump campaigned saying he'd be a good friend to the lgbt community. you would think a 'friend' would, if not celebrate pride, at least recognize it.

not very friendly for a friend.

alasdair

Agreed, wholeheartedly, hence my very militant point to JG about Obama being the first real LGBT rights president (the campaign is not part of the presidency; a nasty JG based red herring fallacy).

 

[JessFR]

I find racial pride itself to be quite troubling.

Not just white pride but black pride too. Being proud of how you were born innately comes with the suggestion that other races are in some way inferior.

And even if you suppose it doesn't, I think it's a path to nowhere good.

I for one am sick of people making shit about race. Im sick of labels and groups.

We are all human, that should be enough.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I find racial pride itself to be quite troubling.

Almost equally as much as people proud of their race would be to see people like me proud of being gay.

What's so hurtful about having a slice of humble pie, guys? It's what the dems were really good at. Hillary had some human decency, some humbleness, humility, was down to earth. Don't abandon those qualities.

I also will echo the truth that Hillary wasn't with LGBT rights for many, many years, unfortunately and that is a reason why she probably is a bit too old to run in '20.

We are all human, that should be enough.

It certainly is not. If it should be, I couldn't tell you why, but the notion is noble and one to strive for.

 

[JessFR]

Being proud of being gay isn't something I'm wild about either. But at least with LGBT pride I haven't seen it become a scary militant force yet like I have with racial pride.

But in the end the same objections I have still apply. That I don't think it's a good thing to have pride in some category you were born into.

Im generally negative towards anything that seeks to categorize, and by extension, divide people.

We are more alike than we are not alike.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Oh, that's because you don't know yet.

Keep reading.

It only gets worse from there. Homosexual nationalist intellectuals are going to ruin the left-oriented PLUR like pride movement. You can blame me but I'm a libertarian. So I'm really not the problem but I'm also not the solution here. Just because we haven't yet doesn't mean we're not going to.

Had Hitler knew of Veh's plans I'm sure he would have kept all the homosexuals and probably just put them in dark pink suits and had them do something special for the Reich. Totally segregated and still used for the war machine. Not like this is a "good" or "better" thing, just a perspective or an idea. An ironic idea.

 

[JGrimez]

There are also pedophiles who are infiltrating the movement and ultimately wish to normalize and legalize pedophilia, initially by having treat it as simply a sexual preference, or very young gender identity. This is my only concern with the LGBT community, they must really stay on alert and resist these influences.

As for Obama, he was anti-gay marriage up until very recently, same with Clinton. They saw how it could help them politically, please don't ask like they actually care about LGBT people. And yes you can be a friend of the community without recognizing pride.

 

[w01fg4ng]

Everything in moderation, even pride. There isn't anything wrong with pride as long as it's not harming others, that's a pretty basic libertarian ideal, no?

The problem that a lot of white straight men don't see is that most of the world celebrates their pride with them 24/7 365.

Should we have a white pride month?

Again, we already do...and it's not just a month...or a just colorful day of parades and rainbows. It's everyday of the year. The straight white man is celebrated very often, excessively so some might argue.

 

[JGrimez]

The problem that a lot of white straight men don't see is that most of the world celebrates their pride with them 24/7 365.

Maybe y'all will deny it, but for whatever reason, white straight men are under attack in the US (and the West). Not saying it's serious or an epidemic (yet) but it's important to realize it. People didn't choose to be born white or cis either, people forget that. I feel that many people want to change certain societal perspectives, but instead end up (consciously or not) attacking a specific racial/gender group, which is racist and sexist.

The most openly persecuted group in America are Trump voters

 

[w01fg4ng]

Trump says his orange complexion is from good genes.



Orange. Like the fruit.