Wyld 4 X
Bluelighter
Go C's!
-
SPORTS
AND
GAMING -
-
Sports & Gaming Moderators: ghostfreak
the 2010 NBA playoffs!
- Thread starter axl blaze
- Start date
grimble crumble
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2005
- Messages
- 1,008
and the rivalry continues! should be a great finals, both teams seem to be playing their best ball.
on a second note. kobe has been having an unbelievable post season. literally his last 10 games in a row have been masterpieces.
lets go lakers!
on a second note. kobe has been having an unbelievable post season. literally his last 10 games in a row have been masterpieces.
lets go lakers!
grimble crumble
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2005
- Messages
- 1,008
the biggest match up problem for LA is going to be rondo, and for boston, Kobe obviously. I think LA can really use the Gasol/Garnett match up to their advantage both offensively and defensively. but the pierce/artest matchup is going to be more of a defensive advantage only. hopefully bynum can hold up and keep giving solid minutes. LA only needs his presence to clog up lanes and grab rebounds/put backs.
I like the defiant attitude, but your ignorance is laughable.
4 more wins LL...4 more wins! Revenge-peat is coming!
HighonLife
Bluelighter
^^ Is it really ignorance?
they are called opinions, we are all entitled to them
but with LL, and apparently you too, if ones opinion is not in line with your own, then somehow there is something wrong with the other person........again, get over yourselves
they are called opinions, we are all entitled to them
but with LL, and apparently you too, if ones opinion is not in line with your own, then somehow there is something wrong with the other person........again, get over yourselves
Johnny blue
Bluelight Crew
It is tough to say lebron is better at this moment. I think eventually when he wins a championship (and he's just too good not to) it will be a lot easier to make the argument.
The Lakers are gonna be a bitch. I'd have it no other way. Being dogs and then winning against first Cleveland and then Orlando and hopefully LA would be fucking sweet. Beat LA! Beat LA!
The Lakers are gonna be a bitch. I'd have it no other way. Being dogs and then winning against first Cleveland and then Orlando and hopefully LA would be fucking sweet. Beat LA! Beat LA!
L O V E L I F E
Bluelighter
YES.
If you've been watching LeBron's entire career, and you've been watchcing Kobe's career, and you've watched the NBA play-offs throughout the past decade, and you have an overall appreciation of the sport, and you STILL think that LeBron is an objectively better player than Kobe is right now, THEN YES, you are ignorant at best, and intellectually dishonest, at worst, when it comes to this one particular issue.
Face it:
Some of you folks had been thinking for the past few years, that we had improved on sliced bread - many of you guys shot your mouths off about it, the media helped fuel even more people to shoot THEIR mouths about it.
And all of you were wrong.
Doesn't make you bad people, or even unintelligent overall.
Just wrong on this one particular issue.
What, pray tell, WOULD it take, for people still clinging to the asinine notion that "LeBron is better than Kobe NOW" to FINALLY admit:
"I was wrong."
??????
Do you not agree that if LeBron and Kobe traded places that the results would be any different?
LeBron is a much more complete player than Kobe. Sure he doesnt have the same jump shot. But he is a better defender, better rebounder, and better at getting to the hoop than Kobe.
LeBron is a much more complete player than Kobe. Sure he doesnt have the same jump shot. But he is a better defender, better rebounder, and better at getting to the hoop than Kobe.
grimble crumble
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2005
- Messages
- 1,008
yes they would be different results because lebron simply isnt as good as kobe. take away his lanes to the hoop as the celtics did, and hes fucked. kobe makes shots with such high degrees of difficulty in times of such epic pressure so frequently people are use to it.
listen to reggie preach
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/tnt_overtime/2010/05/29/20100529_inside_4.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt1
anyway LBJ is gone fishin right now, which means it should be the same in this thread. hes not in the playoffs so he shouldnt be in the playoff thread
Johnny blue
Bluelight Crew
Yes well it's true he's a better rebounder sure. That probably goes hand in hand with the fact that LBJ plays small forward and kobe doesn't. LBJ does play a great 2 guard as well. The point is he plays whatever position while kobe sticks to shooting guard. Now I'm not saying kobe is worlds away in skill level because IMHO he's not. Both players are complete game changers in their own right. It's just to bring up a stat like rebounds when one player is a small forward and the other is a shooting guard is apple and oranges IMO.
Again I like Lebron and I'm sure his time will come. I even think he is alot more athletic and stronger than kobe, probably even a better overall player. That said if it came down to a buzzer beater and my team needed one shot to win I'd rather have the ball in Braynt's hands ATM. A championship or 2 will certainly change everything because lets face it that's all that really matters. Hell that considered I'd feel much more comfortable having my buzzer beater in the hands of Ray Allen than Lebron ATM. He's still young though and if he isn't already he will be the best player in the game before you know it. Where he ends up could be the biggest decision in NBA history.
When it comes to the 4th quarter, there isn't even a comparison. All this hypothetical switching places crap does nothing for me when I have no reason to believe Lebron would've been able to sink the kind of unreal clutch jumpers Kobe HAD to sink last night to beat the Suns. Thing is...Kobe's been doing that for years now. We've yet to really see Lebron do it consistently in a playoff setting. Sure, you get the occasional "WITNESS!" game or one buzzer beater against Orlando which was the only win for the Cavs that series...but to close out teams the way Kobe has time and time again...nope. Not even close.
And regarding the "switching places" garbage argument, how can any Lebron fan tell me he would've sank the same 6 last-second game-winners Kobe sank so far this season?
At this point, just one or two championships doesn't put Lebron in a similar category to Kobe. He'll need a few more than that, especially if Kobe's able to add to his hardware this season and possibly the next 3 after that.
And regarding the "switching places" garbage argument, how can any Lebron fan tell me he would've sank the same 6 last-second game-winners Kobe sank so far this season?
At this point, just one or two championships doesn't put Lebron in a similar category to Kobe. He'll need a few more than that, especially if Kobe's able to add to his hardware this season and possibly the next 3 after that.
Since when is an opinion free and clear of being ignorant?
When someone dismisses Kobe's achievements and abilities as being inferior to a player who hasn't done jack shit in the grand scheme of NBA glory and takes hype and potential over proven performance and championships, that's ignorance...but I guess you could try and say that's just my opinion, albeit quite a logical one, no?
HighonLife
Bluelighter
Ill answer all of u (LL, Lapdawg, Grimble) with this qoute
It is opinion based as to who the best player is because best is a matter of opinion, some people look for different things in their own prerequisits for determining who 'the best' is
yalls opinions continually overlook the fact that basketball isnt an individual sport, its a team sport. Kobe doesnt have 5 rings, THE LAKERS have 5 rings, he was simply a big part of the team, that is all, he had help from temendous other players along with quite possibly 'the best' (there we go again using that word) active coach.
to the qoute above: if lebron woulda been in Kobes stead on those past champion lakers teams i dont see why there would have been different results, thus its The Lakers as a whole who have accomplished things more impressive then Lebron n the Cavs accomplishments,
Johnny blue
Bluelight Crew
True HoL. It is really a matter of opinion. Especially where they play different positions.
I think that winning a championship would help Lebron in this argument but, I don't agree that he must match or surpass Kobe in quantity of rings. Point being that most view MJ as the greatest player of all time right? He has 6 rings but so don't Bob Cousy, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Scottie Pippen for that matter.
If it were all about rings then Bill Russell would be the greatest of all time with his 11 and Sam Jones number 2 with his 10. Shit man Robert Horry has 7.
No one can argue that rings help solidify the greatness of a player. The quantity of rings does not always mean anything though. Look at Dan Marino. You can most certainly be a great player without a ring.
I think that winning a championship would help Lebron in this argument but, I don't agree that he must match or surpass Kobe in quantity of rings. Point being that most view MJ as the greatest player of all time right? He has 6 rings but so don't Bob Cousy, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Scottie Pippen for that matter.
If it were all about rings then Bill Russell would be the greatest of all time with his 11 and Sam Jones number 2 with his 10. Shit man Robert Horry has 7.
No one can argue that rings help solidify the greatness of a player. The quantity of rings does not always mean anything though. Look at Dan Marino. You can most certainly be a great player without a ring.
I LOVE how you've brought up Dan Marino on your own there Johnny...because that's what Lebron is at this point...the NBA's Dan Marino.
Being great is one thing, but if you want to say someone like Lebron is as great as/better than Kobe, who is already one of the GREATEST NBA PLAYERS OF ALL-TIME...he better have results to back that up, and the greatest result an NBA player can have is hoisting that Larry O'Brien Trophy, usually more than once. Until then, hypothetical bullshit doesn't mean anything and using it shows incredible weakness in one's opinion/argument.
Being great is one thing, but if you want to say someone like Lebron is as great as/better than Kobe, who is already one of the GREATEST NBA PLAYERS OF ALL-TIME...he better have results to back that up, and the greatest result an NBA player can have is hoisting that Larry O'Brien Trophy, usually more than once. Until then, hypothetical bullshit doesn't mean anything and using it shows incredible weakness in one's opinion/argument.
Johnny blue
Bluelight Crew
Um ya I already called him the Dan Marino of basketball like 3-4 pages back. I'm not really sure where you're going with this one. Maybe if you were actually involved in the conversation when it started you wouldn't be making such ignorant assumptions about where I stand on the topic. Way to show up. He could very well never end up on a team like LA and never get a ring. He could still be a hall of famer. My point was people keep saying he has no rings so he's not shit which isn't exactly true. I didn't say he is on par with Kobe. didn't say he isn't either. So ya I did bring up Dan Marino again "all on my own" and you're still a Lakers fan with an opinion.
Speaking of ignorance how about the fact that LBJ wants to retire MJ's number. Ya that's great but, then he wears Bill Russell's number? Like I've said before he has a lot of maturing to do before he gets there.
Anyways I respect both players game. I leave it up to you Laker fans to blow Kobe (don't forget to cup the balls) and everyone else can defend Lebron all they want. They're both great players and I'll just leave it there because it's not in my best interest to profess my love for an NBA player especially in the wrong thread.
Speaking of ignorance how about the fact that LBJ wants to retire MJ's number. Ya that's great but, then he wears Bill Russell's number? Like I've said before he has a lot of maturing to do before he gets there.
Anyways I respect both players game. I leave it up to you Laker fans to blow Kobe (don't forget to cup the balls) and everyone else can defend Lebron all they want. They're both great players and I'll just leave it there because it's not in my best interest to profess my love for an NBA player especially in the wrong thread.
Last edited:
Wow how brutal to write a long message and have it disappear on me because bluelight makes me log in after I click reply...anyway...
Just to clear up an assumption of yours first Johnny, I'm not a Lakers fan. Actually I'm a Warriors fan first, Kobe fan second. I've never really liked the Lakers, but funny enough two of my favorite players of all-time are Lakers. Go figure.
Sorry if I didn't notice you bringing up Marino and Lebron in the same sentence the first go around. Can't say that is the first time I've ever heard it, but does it really matter if you said it three pages back? You decided to bring it up again and that's where I saw it and responded. You seem to take issue with me even though I did agree with your Marino comparison, though I suppose you thought I was referring to your argument with the rest of my reply, which was initially not my intent...but let's get to that shall we?
You seem to believe the quantity of championships is not the major factor in determining NBA greatness. Well, I know a few Boston fans who would argue quite the contrary, even going as far as saying Russell is still the greatest because of his legendary run. Though I may not agree with that claim due to the evolution of the game and its players, I can understand where they're coming from. After all, isn't winning the championship the ultimate goal? Winning it once undoubtedly takes the monkey off the back of a player trying to break into the pantheon of NBA greatness (just ask Malone, Barkley, Dirk, Nash soon possibly)...but winning it more than once, twice, three times...you get the idea...well then you start talking about the greatest legends to ever play the game. Agree to disagree with your assessment, because for me, quantity is quality when it comes to NBA championships, particularly when you start discussing the greatest players ever to grace the game. Is it mere coincidence MJ ended his career with 6 championships, one more than Magic's 5? I tend to think not, but to each their own.
You brought up Robert Horry, and it's clear the reason why. I'll tell you one thing Big Shot Rob has that Lebron doesn't have though...the proven ability to step up when it matters most to help his team win the biggest games a player can be a part of...the games that lead to championships. Say what you will about the difference in skill between those two players...but Lebron wants what Horry achieved...not just the rings, but the clutch factor to win those rings.
The nicest way I can break down this Lebron/Kobe debate is to compare it to the late 80s, when Jordan was a highlight machine and an MVP but not a champion, having to take a back seat to the likes of Magic, Bird, even Isiah. Sure, those guys were on better teams, but to be the leader and primary face of their respective organizations, and to lead their teams to the championship repeatedly... well that's what separated them from the rest of the pack. And what separates champions from other champions? The number of rings won by that player. In terms of today, the standard set has been by Kobe, and Lebron is chasing him. I respect what Lebron has done and the potential of his abilities are nearly limitless, but unlike others here, I'm not about to say his potential overrides the greatness Kobe has already created, and continues to add on to.
You're right Johnny...you can be great and not win a championship, but if you want to be one of the greatest, you better win that championship, and you better win it more than once, because that's what has been done before you. And in case there was any doubt, the "you" stands for not just Lebron, but every other basketball sensation out there without a championship ring on their finger. Hell, it even applies to Dwade, but to a lesser extent since he does have that first ring.
So yeah, sorry to derail the topic of this thread Johnny as you pointed out, but over the years NBA threads on this site in general tend to steer into this direction, regardless of whether Kobe fans or Lebron fans instigate it. All I can say about this particular issue of thread hijacking is, get used to it here.
But to the actual topic of this thread...I can't wait for Thursday. I hope it'll be as epic of a series as it is hyped to be, and this time around I think the Lakers are better prepared to play the Celtics. Granted Rondo has improved, but I'm still skeptical that his jump shot is as improved as some believe, and it's not like the Lakers haven't played some talented point guards already in these playoffs. Bynum matching up with Perkins rather than Gasol having to do so will only help, as will having primarily Artest match up on Pierce and Kobe on Allen, rather than using Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic. Oh, and Vlad Radmanovic won't be starting for the Lakers this time around either heh. Good luck to both teams, but obviously I'll be hoping Kobe gets no.5 and Artest gets his first taste.
Just to clear up an assumption of yours first Johnny, I'm not a Lakers fan. Actually I'm a Warriors fan first, Kobe fan second. I've never really liked the Lakers, but funny enough two of my favorite players of all-time are Lakers. Go figure.
Sorry if I didn't notice you bringing up Marino and Lebron in the same sentence the first go around. Can't say that is the first time I've ever heard it, but does it really matter if you said it three pages back? You decided to bring it up again and that's where I saw it and responded. You seem to take issue with me even though I did agree with your Marino comparison, though I suppose you thought I was referring to your argument with the rest of my reply, which was initially not my intent...but let's get to that shall we?
You seem to believe the quantity of championships is not the major factor in determining NBA greatness. Well, I know a few Boston fans who would argue quite the contrary, even going as far as saying Russell is still the greatest because of his legendary run. Though I may not agree with that claim due to the evolution of the game and its players, I can understand where they're coming from. After all, isn't winning the championship the ultimate goal? Winning it once undoubtedly takes the monkey off the back of a player trying to break into the pantheon of NBA greatness (just ask Malone, Barkley, Dirk, Nash soon possibly)...but winning it more than once, twice, three times...you get the idea...well then you start talking about the greatest legends to ever play the game. Agree to disagree with your assessment, because for me, quantity is quality when it comes to NBA championships, particularly when you start discussing the greatest players ever to grace the game. Is it mere coincidence MJ ended his career with 6 championships, one more than Magic's 5? I tend to think not, but to each their own.
You brought up Robert Horry, and it's clear the reason why. I'll tell you one thing Big Shot Rob has that Lebron doesn't have though...the proven ability to step up when it matters most to help his team win the biggest games a player can be a part of...the games that lead to championships. Say what you will about the difference in skill between those two players...but Lebron wants what Horry achieved...not just the rings, but the clutch factor to win those rings.
The nicest way I can break down this Lebron/Kobe debate is to compare it to the late 80s, when Jordan was a highlight machine and an MVP but not a champion, having to take a back seat to the likes of Magic, Bird, even Isiah. Sure, those guys were on better teams, but to be the leader and primary face of their respective organizations, and to lead their teams to the championship repeatedly... well that's what separated them from the rest of the pack. And what separates champions from other champions? The number of rings won by that player. In terms of today, the standard set has been by Kobe, and Lebron is chasing him. I respect what Lebron has done and the potential of his abilities are nearly limitless, but unlike others here, I'm not about to say his potential overrides the greatness Kobe has already created, and continues to add on to.
You're right Johnny...you can be great and not win a championship, but if you want to be one of the greatest, you better win that championship, and you better win it more than once, because that's what has been done before you. And in case there was any doubt, the "you" stands for not just Lebron, but every other basketball sensation out there without a championship ring on their finger. Hell, it even applies to Dwade, but to a lesser extent since he does have that first ring.
So yeah, sorry to derail the topic of this thread Johnny as you pointed out, but over the years NBA threads on this site in general tend to steer into this direction, regardless of whether Kobe fans or Lebron fans instigate it. All I can say about this particular issue of thread hijacking is, get used to it here.
But to the actual topic of this thread...I can't wait for Thursday. I hope it'll be as epic of a series as it is hyped to be, and this time around I think the Lakers are better prepared to play the Celtics. Granted Rondo has improved, but I'm still skeptical that his jump shot is as improved as some believe, and it's not like the Lakers haven't played some talented point guards already in these playoffs. Bynum matching up with Perkins rather than Gasol having to do so will only help, as will having primarily Artest match up on Pierce and Kobe on Allen, rather than using Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic. Oh, and Vlad Radmanovic won't be starting for the Lakers this time around either heh. Good luck to both teams, but obviously I'll be hoping Kobe gets no.5 and Artest gets his first taste.
Johnny blue
Bluelight Crew
Well I guess I took it the wrong way. I read "all on your own" in a patronizing way.
My goal was to illustrate the fact that opinion does play a huge role in these who's a greater player arguments. Just showing the large number of players that have more rings than MJ is case in point IMO. Like I said I do think that LBJ getting a ring would make it an easier sell for him but, I don't believe the number of rings is directly relevant to greatness of a player. There are too many factors involved with a team or single player winning more than one championship.
Truth be told I think Lebron has the potential to be better than Kobe but, I don't think he's there yet. It is my opinion that I'd rather Kobe take the game winning shot then LBJ ATM. That's just it though it's just my opinion.
One could easily bring up Kobe's supporting cast. Kobe and Shaq were great. Shaq leaves and the lakers loose for 3 years until Gasol shows up. I'm not positive but, I think Fischer was in and out during that time as well. Now during that period I didn't think Kobe was crap I just thought he needed some help which is where Lebron is right now in my mind.
On topic Thursday will be an interesting game. Both teams are different than they were 2 years ago. Gasol is absolutely a better player and the addition of Artest will definitely make a difference. On the Cs side Rondo is a beast all of the sudden and the bench players like Davis and Tony Allen have gotten alot better too. Than said Garnett is pretty much a non factor IMO which really changes the dynamic of the team and will probably hurt us against Gasol. I just can't quite figure out what we are gonna do on offense.
Edit- I'm hearing Bynum is hurt again? did you hear something different? Also I agree Rondo can't shoot for shit but, don't forget about Nate Robinson if we need him.
I'm stoked for this, just a little pissed that thursday's game starts at 9![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
My goal was to illustrate the fact that opinion does play a huge role in these who's a greater player arguments. Just showing the large number of players that have more rings than MJ is case in point IMO. Like I said I do think that LBJ getting a ring would make it an easier sell for him but, I don't believe the number of rings is directly relevant to greatness of a player. There are too many factors involved with a team or single player winning more than one championship.
Truth be told I think Lebron has the potential to be better than Kobe but, I don't think he's there yet. It is my opinion that I'd rather Kobe take the game winning shot then LBJ ATM. That's just it though it's just my opinion.
One could easily bring up Kobe's supporting cast. Kobe and Shaq were great. Shaq leaves and the lakers loose for 3 years until Gasol shows up. I'm not positive but, I think Fischer was in and out during that time as well. Now during that period I didn't think Kobe was crap I just thought he needed some help which is where Lebron is right now in my mind.
On topic Thursday will be an interesting game. Both teams are different than they were 2 years ago. Gasol is absolutely a better player and the addition of Artest will definitely make a difference. On the Cs side Rondo is a beast all of the sudden and the bench players like Davis and Tony Allen have gotten alot better too. Than said Garnett is pretty much a non factor IMO which really changes the dynamic of the team and will probably hurt us against Gasol. I just can't quite figure out what we are gonna do on offense.
Edit- I'm hearing Bynum is hurt again? did you hear something different? Also I agree Rondo can't shoot for shit but, don't forget about Nate Robinson if we need him.
I'm stoked for this, just a little pissed that thursday's game starts at 9
Last edited: