Unless he's doing nebido (which he's not) there is no way once every three weeks, hell once every two weeks won't cut it. Once a week minimum in my book. We need ped using athletes as endos, and we'd be set.
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SIED Moderators: Genetic Freak | Serotonin101
Testicular shrinkage from TRT, are there alternatives to hcg?
- Thread starter sacsky
- Start date
Hello,
I'm in Europe. And here 250mg T Enantate every 3 weeks is standard. Even the leaflet says every 3 weeks and that in case necessary it can be reduced to every 2 weeks.
And then there is Nebido every 12 weeks but that's about it. No endo here uses AIs or HCG. It's like in the fucking middleages here.
There really is no sense in arguing with my endo. I already tried that.
I have also been to urologists. They have even less of a clue. One urologist offered me T gel as a one time "loading" cycle. He said many of his patients never need any more TRT after loading
up on it. Can you believe that!? And this guy was a doctor.
But if my T levels during the 3 weeks are still higher than my naturally low T levels then isn't this still better than nothing even if the T levels fluctuate?
Basically after 1 week I am at the top of the normal range, after 2 weeks I'm in the middle and I assume after 3 weeks I'm probably below normal.
But if I for example start applying gel during the last few days then I could prevent my levels from falling too low before the next injection.
I'm in Europe. And here 250mg T Enantate every 3 weeks is standard. Even the leaflet says every 3 weeks and that in case necessary it can be reduced to every 2 weeks.
And then there is Nebido every 12 weeks but that's about it. No endo here uses AIs or HCG. It's like in the fucking middleages here.
There really is no sense in arguing with my endo. I already tried that.
I have also been to urologists. They have even less of a clue. One urologist offered me T gel as a one time "loading" cycle. He said many of his patients never need any more TRT after loading
up on it. Can you believe that!? And this guy was a doctor.
But if my T levels during the 3 weeks are still higher than my naturally low T levels then isn't this still better than nothing even if the T levels fluctuate?
Basically after 1 week I am at the top of the normal range, after 2 weeks I'm in the middle and I assume after 3 weeks I'm probably below normal.
But if I for example start applying gel during the last few days then I could prevent my levels from falling too low before the next injection.
Daz-69
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2014
- Messages
- 142
Hello,
I'm in Europe. And here 250mg T Enantate every 3 weeks is standard. Even the leaflet says every 3 weeks and that in case necessary it can be reduced to every 2 weeks.
And then there is Nebido every 12 weeks but that's about it. No endo here uses AIs or HCG. It's like in the fucking middleages here.
There really is no sense in arguing with my endo. I already tried that.
I have also been to urologists. They have even less of a clue. One urologist offered me T gel as a one time "loading" cycle. He said many of his patients never need any more TRT after loading
up on it. Can you believe that!? And this guy was a doctor.
But if my T levels during the 3 weeks are still higher than my naturally low T levels then isn't this still better than nothing even if the T levels fluctuate?
Basically after 1 week I am at the top of the normal range, after 2 weeks I'm in the middle and I assume after 3 weeks I'm probably below normal.
But if I for example start applying gel during the last few days then I could prevent my levels from falling too low before the next injection.
We undertook private research with Med-School post-grads on testosterone esters a number of years back, I can assure you 250mg E3rd week is NOT the best option for you..!!.... Its more about keeping you out of the doctors surgery for as long as possible.. (he doesn't want you cluttering up his practice twice a week for low-dose injections when he can pin you one large dose every 3 weeks)...
It might be an option to self administer test-gel at the beginning of the second week every day, early morning, and maybe mid afternoon... until next injection...
Don't use it before any blood tests....lol
I don't think it's about him not wanting me in his practice too often. It's simply that he doesn't do anything extraordinary.
I asked him about self-injecting every few days and he said this is too risky cause he gets trouble if I do something wrong. He also said if you inject smaller doses then the kinetic is different and so on.
It also says on the vials which I get that the testosterone has to be used immediately after opening! This would be another issue. If you can't store it then it would be too expensive.
What sucks about the gels is that they raise my dht very high which causes hair loss and also isn't healthy for the prostate. That's why I wanted to get off the gels.
I asked him about self-injecting every few days and he said this is too risky cause he gets trouble if I do something wrong. He also said if you inject smaller doses then the kinetic is different and so on.
It also says on the vials which I get that the testosterone has to be used immediately after opening! This would be another issue. If you can't store it then it would be too expensive.
What sucks about the gels is that they raise my dht very high which causes hair loss and also isn't healthy for the prostate. That's why I wanted to get off the gels.
Did u have blood tests that showed DHT above normal range..?
Tell your endo to get depo-test cypionate 200mg/ml in 10ml multi-use vials, and pin u more often, tell him not to worry about pharmacokinetics....
Yeh... Your endo kinda sucks...!!!
Yes, when I was on T gel (not even the max dose) my DHT was already slightly above the normal range. And my T levels were still mediocre this means if I had increased the gel then the DHT would have been even higher. I really don't know how dangerous that is. Usually docs do not even measure DHT!
We don't have T cyp here. Only T enantate. My endo doesn't even have a huge clue about TRT. I told him my nuts are shrinking he said this can't be. Unbelievable.
We don't have T cyp here. Only T enantate. My endo doesn't even have a huge clue about TRT. I told him my nuts are shrinking he said this can't be. Unbelievable.
High dht should be fine. Unless you're predisposed to male pattern baldness or prostate issues
DHT is an essential male hormone, if slightly above normal there's no issue, it gives a positive androgen:estrogen ratio... If genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness then there's nothing you can do about it, so don't worry...
Hormone spikes are suggested as being responsible for higher rates of metabolism (ie: DHT and or estrogen conversion).. maybe if application & release of Gel were reduced but over a longer time frame it might better work to your advantage...
As you body detects exogenous androgens (injectable testosterone), it will lower endogenous (natural) production further this will cause your testes to atrophy (reduce in size).. This is an unfortunate side effect of TRT, it isn't a serious medical condition, so don't worry about it... Its just aesthetics... !!!
It is possible for your endo to draw up 250mg into a syringe but only inject half, replace the needle, keep the protective cover on and store it, ready to use in 4-5 days....
Its more of a hassle for him, GP's don't like hassle... There is NO issue with sterility..!!!
^agreed. On gh15 lots of people preload pins for a week or two in advance.
I could ask my GP but I dont think he would do that. He simply follows the advice of the endo and the endo will not agree with this.
If a person is prone to male pattern baldness then does the DHT level not still play a role in how quickly he loses hair, meaning if DHT is low hair remains longer? Cause I think I noticed hair loss
when I went on the gel. I also got a trichoscan last year and the dermatologist said that on the top of the head my telogen rate is increased! Damn. I am already using Alfatradiol topically. It's some kind of estrogen which supposedly helps against DHT but is not estrogenic. I don't really know if it helps or not.
What's also strange is that during the times where I was on the gel and where my DHT was high I didn't feel better at all. Why do I not feel it when DHT is high or when serum T is high? This makes
me wonder if there is something else wrong with me. Usually you should expect to feel really good when these hormones are high.
If a person is prone to male pattern baldness then does the DHT level not still play a role in how quickly he loses hair, meaning if DHT is low hair remains longer? Cause I think I noticed hair loss
when I went on the gel. I also got a trichoscan last year and the dermatologist said that on the top of the head my telogen rate is increased! Damn. I am already using Alfatradiol topically. It's some kind of estrogen which supposedly helps against DHT but is not estrogenic. I don't really know if it helps or not.
What's also strange is that during the times where I was on the gel and where my DHT was high I didn't feel better at all. Why do I not feel it when DHT is high or when serum T is high? This makes
me wonder if there is something else wrong with me. Usually you should expect to feel really good when these hormones are high.
With hormones its all about balance, you need enough DHT for normal healthy body function.. If lowering DHT lowers libido, and causes other issues related to depression, and mood, does hair matter that much..? You may have to ask yourself how much do you value hair against a normal healthy life...
Alfatradiol is a 17-alpha OH, it binds ER but with a limited estrogenic response (if any), basically as a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor...
I don't know how to suggest enlightening your endo to the basics of pharmacokinetics..? Your blood levels should be stable to avoid plasma spikes that could be responsible for higher rates of metabolism to DHT..? This means you need less hormone, injected more frequently....!!!
Maybe try obtain Testosterone from another source and self administer a low dose, but a more frequent protocol...!!
Hello,
as far as I can tell my DHT is still relatively high but not as high as with the gel. 1 week after an injection my DHT was around 800. Norm goes until 1000.
What I can tell now is that after around 20 days my serum T level is low in the normal range. This is good news. This means that obviously the injection lasts longer for me.
I read stuff that already after 2 weeks you're below normal. I also have the option to use some gel during the last few days. I think I will stick to this protocol for now especially
since I have not many other options.
My E2 is also relatively stable between 25 and 20.
What sucks though is that I don't really feel much from the TRT. I get more morning wood. But generally I am not horny and I also don't feel better mentally. I don't understand that.
I also tried applying max doses of gel on a day but I also didn't feel anything. There are people who say that it's like a curtain is being lifted and everything is better and yadda. But not for me.
as far as I can tell my DHT is still relatively high but not as high as with the gel. 1 week after an injection my DHT was around 800. Norm goes until 1000.
What I can tell now is that after around 20 days my serum T level is low in the normal range. This is good news. This means that obviously the injection lasts longer for me.
I read stuff that already after 2 weeks you're below normal. I also have the option to use some gel during the last few days. I think I will stick to this protocol for now especially
since I have not many other options.
My E2 is also relatively stable between 25 and 20.
What sucks though is that I don't really feel much from the TRT. I get more morning wood. But generally I am not horny and I also don't feel better mentally. I don't understand that.
I also tried applying max doses of gel on a day but I also didn't feel anything. There are people who say that it's like a curtain is being lifted and everything is better and yadda. But not for me.