Benzos Temazepam

[AlphaOdure]

Nice post Alpha. I've been prescribed temazepam (30mg) for a couple years. I agree that it is great for sleep but I never had any day after grogginess from it, probably because I was also on 30mg mirtazapine. For the last year I've been taking mine with pregabalin (Lyrica) and with this combo I was able to reduce the amount of benzo I normally took by at least half to get a similar effect but I don't know how well it would work for w/d. It's a very nice feeling benzo and for me I find it more mentally addicting than the other benzos that I have experience with.

I'm on 3,000mg of gabapentin per day & it definitely helped lower my benzodiazepine intake (more so my buprenorphine use, I am Rx'd 4mg/day), although gabapentin did not really affect my barbiturate intake. But this was all AT FIRST. Does pregabalin--gabapentin's more potent cousin & of the same molecular class--also lose its potency over time? I find this all odd from a pharmacological standpoint b/c the pharmacy/pharmacology community has stated gabapentin, pregabalin, & other similar medicines in the research phase have ALL been ruled out as direct GABA-a (or GABA-b) positive modulators (aka action of benzodiazepines, the main mode of action possessed by barbiturates, as well as ethanol, ethanol derivatives (2M2B), GHBergics & baclofen, general GABAergic depressants, quinazolines (methaqualone), GABAergic muscle relaxers--aka, carisoprodol)

The withdrawal is odd, too. I swear on my life it literally makes one SICK. As in, it must interact w/ a similar system that influenza acts on neurologically. B/c the w/d of gabapentin at least (no experience w/ pregabalin, although i assume it'd be similar.. just WORSE) doesn't cause hallucinations & typical GABAergic withdrawal mindfucks.. it just makes you literally feel sick. & not in an opioid/opiate way, either.

 

[AlphaOdure]

I believe the current view on pregabalin & gabapentin mechanism of action(s) include speculations that these classes of drugs reduce CACNA2D1 & CACNA2D2 (voltage-gated calcium channels) currents; supposedly resulting in enhancement of GABA response; as well as acting as an NMDA antagonist (likely its efficacy as an anticonvulsant & anti-addictive). In addition, gabapentin at least, reduces the activity in the noradrenergic system, which activates alpha2-adrenergic receptors in the spine. Additioally, gabapentin, & likely pregabalin, also binds to & activates the adenosine A1 receptor. How relevant the later two modes of actions are in relation to its therapeutic effects? Who knows.

But the main contention is that neither medication acts as a GABA-a, nor even GABA-b, positive modulator or agonist as first anticipated.

 

[AlphaOdure]

I just got back from the doctors.. & i swear some doctors are motherfucking pricks. Goddammit it all to hell if a patient fucking MAY know more than you. At least my bupe doctor is somewhat OK. But they just cut off my temazepam JUST LIKE THAT!? No matter if i fucking die from withdrawal or not!?

Ugh, well.. i'll try my subutex/bupe doctor in 2 days x

 

[Snake_Eyes]

I just got back from the doctors.. & i swear some doctors are motherfucking pricks. Goddammit it all to hell if a patient fucking MAY know more than you. At least my bupe doctor is somewhat OK. But they just cut off my temazepam JUST LIKE THAT!? No matter if i fucking die from withdrawal or not!?

Ugh, well.. i'll try my subutex/bupe doctor in 2 days x

That sucks, sorry to hear hopefully your other doc will help you out. Posts like this is one of the main reasons why I decided to only take half (sometimes a quarter) of my 30mg capsules. Doing this for the past year has allowed me to build up a pretty decent amount of temazepam to make a future taper as comfortable as possible if I all of a sudden get cut off.

When I have more time I'll read over your previous posts again since I don't understand what most of it means. lol

 

[Cuzie]

Same here- mine is for serious insomia. & 30mg (2x 15mg per night) is just fine. I have a HUGE tolerance to GABAergics, as i take 2,000mg of butalbital (a barbiturate) a day. The normal dose is a max of 300mg per day. Fucking dumb ass doctor thought i'd "be just fine" just STOPPING!?!? uggh well i wasn't... was in the psych-ward for nearly 3 weeks & had seizures... which were fucking REFUSED to be treated NOR did my fuck-head for a doctor in there REFUSE to refer me to a goddamn neurologist!!!!!!! FUCK U.S. healthcare... even w/ the AP Act.

Oh & by the way- yea, i did feel it the next day... if i'd have to take 60mg at night, too

Holy shit that's terrible. Did he give you an explanation other than you'd be just fine?

My doc had me from 10 to 5. And then I went from 5 to roughly 2.5 on my own and then on to 150 McG of melatonin (which is where I started when I first had issues with insomnia. I couldn't imagine going from 10 to nothing.

 

[AlphaOdure]

^^Absolutely ZERO explanation. She's a fucking cunt. i have BOTH an empty bottle of temazepam & an Rx for 15 left postdated for 2/2/14, i don't get why she's being a bitch? & yea, i get what you mean- my daily 2400mg of gabapentin definitely helps me reduce my intake of nearly all my medications- my 4mg/day of buprenorphine (subutex, pill form) and it marginally helps w/ any benzodiazepines as well.

Back up, incase my other doctor wont give me any temazepam or another benzodiazepine... i have butalbital--a barbiturate, most commonly found in "Fioricet" name brand here in the US. & i have 2 bottles of 180 pills. I've used them before & they work for benzodiazepine withdrawal.

Thanks for the concern, though, SE & Cuzie. I'll let everyone know tuesday most likely.

 

[AlphaOdure]

Its like I want to tell these assholes... DO YOU REALIZE THIS FUCKING BULLSHIT, YOU FUCKING EGOTISTICAL DICKS- WHO FEEL THREATENED IF SOMEONE MAY KNOW AS MUCH AS OR PERHAPS EVEN MORE THAN YOU (Especially when i have to TELL these doctors what this medication IS & what neurotransmitters it interacts with!);

American healthcare fucking sucks. Its ABSOLUTELY NOT a doctor-patient RELATIONSHIP.. as it fucking should be. I know my body; this bitch NURSE; not even a fucking doctor actually... isn't in my goddam head! (apologies in advance, again, to any nurses and/or ladies here.. i'm just really fucking pissed)

ANYWAY, here is what i'd either like to TELL them and/or what i feel or pissed about:

• A. I CAN DIE FROM THIS;

• B. YOU ACT AS IF I'M FUCKING LYING ABOUT EVERY SYMPTOM I'M SAYING;

• C. YOU STILL REFUSE TO TREAT MY SEIZURES;

• D. YOU ARE PUTTING ME IN A SITUATION WHERE I WILL RIGHT FUCKING BACK TO HIGH DOSES OF BUTALBITAL!!!

 

[adder]

I think that the mental withdrawal from GABAergics and cravings to ease the anxiety play a big role in exaggerating the fear that you might actually die. I was addicted to benzodiazepines for 9 years and I spent the last 6 years or so on clonazepam. For some time I also used phenobarbital when I couldn't get a script for clonazepam and I didn't feel like asking every junkie on the street if he/she has some. I did get to the point when at times I felt so bad without some BZD that I thought I could kill for a couple of pills just not to get rid of the anxiety but only to get rid of the paranoia and derealization. Eventually I'm off clonazepam and all the shit... It's a big relief. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I wouldn't use BZDs or barbiturates daily when I don't have to think or study any more, as I compare myself to other addicted people, I'm really one of the most stubborn people on the Earth and my view on my addiction after all these years spent in agony differs a lot from my doctor's perspective and the perspective of the people around me who think I'd kill myself with the drugs if I had them around me...

Anyway, I think that you make yourself suffer much more by being against getting off GABAergics. If you're an opioid addict and/or benzodiazepine/barbiturate addict in the 21st century, it's hardly possible that someone will back you up in your addiction. To feel perfectly fine on a daily basis, you either need to have a good source of the drugs secured or make them yourself, I guess. Current view on benzodiazepines (forget barbiturates! this stuff is a few decades old) is that they shouldn't be prescribed for any disease/condition in general because of the horrible addiction they cause. There are alternative drugs for every problem BZDs have been used for. Their efficacy is a different thing.

 

[AlphaOdure]

I appreciate your feedback on my situation; so absolutely do not take me wrong here in my rebuttal. I definitely am glad you're able to function without GABAergics & I wish you all the luck in the future in your sobriety from them. BUT, there is my rebuttal:

• I do not "rev" myself up or, i guess how do i put this, exasperate my symptoms. Actually, quite the opposite- during withdrawal I'm nearly comatose (conscious but laying in bed nearly 24 hours out of the day)

• I've had seizures (which my uncle has died from) during a medically observed TAPER off of butalbital (barbiturate, which i've had to restart)

• there is direct history of death from inappropriate, immediate, non-tapered, & inadequate GABAergic withdrawal

• prior to seizures--despite my efforts of meditation & non-pharmaceutical therapies--i experience neurological "shocks" that i suppose would be interpreted as convulsions by a medical professional

• i don't only experience "depersonalization"--but full blown paranoid hallucinations (auditory & ESPECIALLY visual) particularly of the delusional type, of which I cannot control nor determine if they are real or not--this has never happened to me before until I withdrew from butalbital.

• anxiety to the point where it interferes with even my ability to leave my house--let alone work, finish school. etc. This is NOT a life to live. The butalbital works to an extent, but, benzodiazepines are preferable for me from past experience.. & I can't increase my butalbital dosage much higher; whereas moderate dosages of benzodiazepines work fine for me.

• I've been on butalbital for 4-5 years & my quality of life has increased.. & not for the use to get a
  "buzz" or some shit- just to to be normal! It sucks, trust me, i WISH i could function w/o medication. But this isn't the case obviously.

 

[bunge]

^
You got a shit deal there buddy.
Not only is it wrong to prescribe temazepam chronically (its got one of the worst side effect and WD profile of any benzo) but then compound that mistake by withdrawing that medication against your wishes.
I also had to educate my doctor on what medication works with what neurotransmitter (doctors hate it when they suspect your smarter then they are), luckily my new doctor is young and eager and very very smart.
Ive also experienced the idiots that are 'medical professionals' ie. Nurses, pharmacists.
IMO pharmacists are the worst. I actually had one tell me that I didnt need a particular med and she wasnt going to dispense it...cheeky bitch!.
I made her ring the doctor and he hit the roof! (got v.angry), long story short I got my meds and the pharmacist looked like a twat...its the small victorys that make it worthwhile.lol

If you dont mind me asking, what are the barbs' prescribed for? I thought they retired them around the time the dinosaurs died.lmao

I would advise talking to a lawyer, with your family and personal med history this smells like medical negligence...

 

[AlphaOdure]

complete medical negligence!! I'm on butalbital.

And i'd rather be on a different benzodiazepine, preferably clonazepam.. but, doctors are against that apparently.

They don't want to hear something they may not know. Pricks.

Yea I REALLY wanted to ring this BITCH. But, they're the only one's who Rx me gabapentin; & withdrawal from NMDA antagonists aren't fun. Especially if you've had seizure history.

& of course, a doctor in the UNITED-FUCKING-STATES doesn't care about your actual health.. but rather their fucking ego.

 

[BlueHues]

^I only scanned the thread, but I will say; Temazepam, for whatever reason, is known to be particularly dangerous in combination with other CNS depressants when compared to other benzos...As bunge mentioned, it has several other negatives as well...It works best as an occasional sleep aid...

 

[AlphaOdure]

i use it as a sleep aid. & as mentioned by someone else... its dangerous. However, i've used it for 1 month; w/ gabapentin 2400mg/day, butalbital 200mg-2000mg day.. (barbiturate); & i've been fine; from 15mg-90mg of temazepam. However, i'll admit, i'd prefer clonazepam.. & slowly withdrawal the butalbital (btw, its an intermediate-acting barbiturate, btw)

I'm also now on 2mg Aripiprazole (Abilify)

I actually do no care for temazepam, i'd rather an anxiolytic.. aside from perhaps a hypnotic/sedative (temazepam or others) on a per needed basis

 

[Cuzie]

Alphaodure, the quality of docs vary widely in the US. I got the impression that mine was perfectly willing to prescribe me temazepam till the end of time. My doc told me that some people end up requiring medication forever. I dunno if it made a difference, but I told him repeatedly I didn't want to get hooked so maybe that put him at ease.

Fwiw, I went to really good hospital with a fantastic reputation. It's out of the way for me, but I wanted to get the best quality help and they took my insurance (BCBS which isn't fancy insurance).

 

[AlphaOdure]

^Agreed entirely.. but i have no insurance; so my options are very limited at the moment.

the fucked up thing is that my doctor would rather have me on a goddam BARBITURATE, butalbital, rather than temazepam. There is a BZP receptor antagonist.. there isn't a barbiturate antagonist. I'd rather be on temazepam.

 

[Tryptamino]

So Ive got a super high benzo tolerance or a habit if you wanna be a dick. Anyways Im jumping off a nasty opiate habit and I stumble across the temazapam bottles and Im thinking score. I pop two an then Im thinking how does it compare to stuff Im familiar with?
I take at least 6 mgs of klonopin a day and usually a few zan bars and maybe a few valiums for fun. So I can take at least 12mgs of klonopin without passing out. Im not asking for dose advice buy simply how it compares to the benzos Im used to.
Im hurting pretty bad, so I certainly would appreciate to know how strong this shit is compared to a zan bar or a 2mg klonopin.

Roughly the half the potency as valium, so 10mg diazepam = 20mg temazepam = .5mg clonazepam at least according to the Benzo Conversion Chart, I find that temazepam is a little stronger than that, mainly because it's so sedating that if I take enough to "match" my normal recreational dose of valium, I pass the fuck out.

 

[AlphaOdure]

Roughly the half the potency as valium, so 10mg diazepam = 20mg temazepam = .5mg clonazepam at least according to the Benzo Conversion Chart, I find that temazepam is a little stronger than that, mainly because it's so sedating that if I take enough to "match" my normal recreational dose of valium, I pass the fuck out.

I completely agree w/ your disagreement w/ the typical "conversions" of benzodiazepines.. temazepam, in my judgement, is just as potent (& more sedating, yes) than diazepam. In fact, diazepam is among a lot of the weaker benzodiazepines; as is alprazolam for some reason? Although clonazepam is a 1,4-benzodiazepine just like diazepam- i respond best to clonazepam (as well as temazepam).

I personally also respond very well to thienodiazepines, particularly etizolam & brotizolam..

 

[Savedbyiboga]

Not to mention, put simply, the most lovely benzo in pill form(Canada), short of nimetaz, which surely wont be found just laying around on the streets or anything.

 

[dopemaster]

I know this thread is old as fuck, but I recently checked it and Alpha has some great info.

I would like to know how the gabapentin is working out as I just got put on that myself.

I have just gotten off of opiates for pain, for good and I am now getting tramadol, gabapentin, and methocarbamol. I still get an rx for clonazepam. I checked this thread because I was a few clonazepam off and despite being a month clean I am still having wds and benzo wds are not something I really wanted to fuck with.