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Teaming Up With Another Oxy Addict To Suffer Through w/d And Succee

Nicholai...is that true?

Not really in my opinion.

A taper will mean you avoid any intense withdrawal apart from a small bit at the end where you finally drop to nothing (which will still obviously be a lot less intense than if you were going to zero from a larger amount), but it will mean a long period of feeling constantly uncomfortable.

There's essentially a given amount of withdrawl you will need to go through for the size of your habit, it just depends on whether you want it all bunched up in one intense period or spread out over a long period that's less intense.
 
I've never known anyone who came off of opiates from tapering, I've known people who came off of methadone/suboxone from tapering but not from actual opiates. Could not do that, towards the end of my using I would buy a gram and say "going to last two days" and yeah I was driving to my dealer's house 24 hours later.

Very proud of you seadog, awesome that you made it through, just be sure to keep up the after-work. I'm sure you've heard about this at your meetings and I don't want to freak you out but many people do experience a "pink cloud" where everything is lovely once they get sober and then they fall back to Earth. Just make sure you have a strong support system in place and I'm sure you'll do great, for me the 30 and 60 day marks were the most difficult. I remember absolutely wanting to dance around the room when I got my first 60 day chip because it took me probably 7 months to get there.
 
Hello Mrs. Wallace...My sponsor says that there is a modest difference between myself and most addicts...I never used oxy to get high. I needed it for significant pain. I hate the stuff. Having said that I still find that I have the same character defects as any other addict.. I am happy to be past the w/d, but my body...as opposed to my mind...still wants the stuff. I am not fixated on getting high OR trying hard mentally to stay "clean". I am using the experiences of others to maintain "sobriety". My doc says the difference between people like me and those who got hooked recreationally is that I never wanted the stuff to begin with. May I have your thoughts on this post please?
Thanks...
D.
 
I have. I managed to get myself into a raging heroin addiction, while also using pills. I originally started buying the heroin when I ran out of pills. My habit became so fucking expensive that it was really becoming a problem. Then my heroin dealer moved.

So I was back into the situation of withdrawing half the month. I tapered myself using IV dilaudid(can you imagine?). Sooooo hard. But I just got so sick of the boom and bust cycle. Withdrawals suck ass. The way I did it though wasn't too terribly complicated, I didn't suffer physical withdrawals during the process, and at the end yeah I still had paws to deal with. Still do. But it has put me into a position where I am still (ab)using opioids, but I make sure that my little binges don't last so long that I become physically addicted again. When I'm in the worst pain, need stress relief, etc, I still have that tool to turn to. I don't have much choice really, I have no quality of life due to extreme pain.

So, yeah, it's totally possible to do so fairly painlessly. I didn't even have a doctor help me. I know the fact that I'm able to use IV drugs, especially something as fiendish as dilly, I know that makes me a really odd duck, but I just couldn't stand the constant goddamn withdrawal and use cycles anymore.
 
Hello Mrs. Wallace...My sponsor says that there is a modest difference between myself and most addicts...I never used oxy to get high. I needed it for significant pain. I hate the stuff. Having said that I still find that I have the same character defects as any other addict.. I am happy to be past the w/d, but my body...as opposed to my mind...still wants the stuff. I am not fixated on getting high OR trying hard mentally to stay "clean". I am using the experiences of others to maintain "sobriety". My doc says the difference between people like me and those who got hooked recreationally is that I never wanted the stuff to begin with. May I have your thoughts on this post please?
Thanks...
D.

Interesting.

Did she say why she thought you had the same character defects as other addicts if you're not an 'addict' in the 12 step sense of the word, just someone who was physically dependant? Or why she thinks all addicts have the same character defects? Or is it you that thinks you have the same character defects?

I still have an NA keyring on my keys even though it's not my thing any more, but I'm always interested to hear about people getting clean through the rooms.
 
Hi Owen...
I felt that I have many of the same character defects. My sponsor Pete, (fyi I'm male), didn't really agree from an NA point of view. So I asked this question..."Everyone on the planet experiences anger and resentment at some time in our lives. Sometimes at the most trivial of issues. Does that make me an addict? We are ALL selfish and self serving at some point in our lives... competing for a promotion for example. Those defects can cause harm no matter what at times. Am I normal out am I an addict?
 
Hello Mrs. Wallace...My sponsor says that there is a modest difference between myself and most addicts...I never used oxy to get high. I needed it for significant pain. I hate the stuff. Having said that I still find that I have the same character defects as any other addict.. I am happy to be past the w/d, but my body...as opposed to my mind...still wants the stuff. I am not fixated on getting high OR trying hard mentally to stay "clean". I am using the experiences of others to maintain "sobriety". My doc says the difference between people like me and those who got hooked recreationally is that I never wanted the stuff to begin with. May I have your thoughts on this post please?
Thanks...
D.

To be honest NA/AA never worked for me, I tried it several times and gave it a real shot, I had a sponsor, went to 3 meetings a week, etc, but it wasn't for me. I think that the program is great for some people, I'll never judge anyone for what keeps them sober-- if praying in a church or praying to your dead dog works for you, that's awesome, whatever works. But I'm a hardcore atheist and have been for my entire life (I was raised Catholic and decided at the age of 6 god did not exist and I've never questioned that thought) so I just couldn't get into the belief of the higher power aspect enough for it to work for me. Plus while some of the people there were lovely, I really took some issue with the attitude of a lot of the "old timers." I'm too mouthy and stubborn to go along with the "do whatever we tell you do to do to stay sober and if you don't you don't really want sobriety" philosophy. What I think is great about NA/AA though is that it gives you a support system and that's what you need when you first get sober. You can't hang out with your old friends who are still using but god, if you just sit around in your house all day alone you're going to be so miserable you're definitely going to use again!

I've been sober for 8 months and I did it this time, the longest time I've been sober in a decade, by never going to a room. I went through a really bad period of about 4 months where I would use suboxone for a few days and then go back on heroin for 4 days... god that was HELL, I think the most uncomfortable period of my life. I spent a lot of days lying in the bath for hours on end because of the hot/cold sweats, chills, etc from the precipitated withdrawals of trying to go back on suboxone too soon because I needed to go to work! I just woke up one day and said I think I'm done with this cause this is bollocks, went away with my father on a trip to visit family in the UK where I couldn't get it, and I haven't picked up a needle since then. I have been seeing a therapist for the last few months who is just amazing and he's helped me a lot.

I think what you have to ask yourself is were you really just using it for pain or did you get something out of it? I obviously don't know your situation, but I have been addicted to many substances over the last 10 years and many did help me legitimately with some physical/psychological issue-- but the difference I see between people who are genuinely using it for those issues is that they don't struggle when they come off of it and even when they were on it they never went over their dose and sometimes were under because they didn't enjoy being high, and they weren't getting any relief from it except from those specific issues. I don't think it's really necessary for you to decide whether you qualify as an "addict" I know the 12 step way is to admit your are powerless and really take on the acceptance of being an addict, but I believe addiction is not black and white but exists on more of a spectrum... get what you can out of the 12 step program and leave what isn't helpful for you. I know many people who have used 12 step for a number of issues, co-depedence, eating disorders, etc, so I think there's definitely an aspect of it that's helpful for everyone.
 
Hi Owen...
I felt that I have many of the same character defects. My sponsor Pete, (fyi I'm male), didn't really agree from an NA point of view. So I asked this question..."Everyone on the planet experiences anger and resentment at some time in our lives. Sometimes at the most trivial of issues. Does that make me an addict? We are ALL selfish and self serving at some point in our lives... competing for a promotion for example. Those defects can cause harm no matter what at times. Am I normal out am I an addict?

Sorry I thought you said she, I must have misread. I assumed you were male anyway, it's not unheard of to have mixed sex sponsor/sponsee relationships.

It's kind of hard for me to answer that question because it would require me subscribing to NA view of what an addict is, and I don't.

I totally agree with you when you say that character defects are common amongst all people, those who are 'normal' and those who NA would consider an addict. I don't believe that there is some special set of character traits/defects that are special and unique to people who suffer from issues with addiction that those in the general population don't. There may be certain ones that are more common or pronounced in people that have addiction issues, but unique no.

Personally I don't really agree that the label addict is particularly useful as a whole. It may help some people in forming an identity which helps keep them safe, but imo it would be more useful to address the route issue of why that person feels they have to form that identity to keep them safe. What is it that's going on that means they need that identity to help them recover? I think there could be lots of different reasons for that, and it's not going to be the same for every person. Obviously the concept of forming an identity is part of what makes us human, and one person can have many different identities. However I don't think putting a finite boundary on that identity and saying some people are an addict and therefore all have this same set of defects and some people aren't and therefore don't have them reflects the reality of the situation. It's far too black and white for my liking, I believe in shades of grey and that one person is not necessarily set at the same position along that continuum for their whole life.
 
Hi Owdn. Hi Mrs Wallace...Mia...in answer to your question, I did occasionally...rarely but definitely felt I was "enjoying" a feeling of euphoria. In considering the neurological pathways that are stimulated as the direct result of opiate use, it's nearly impossible not to. However, when I "came down, I never felt as though I wanted to get high again on purpose. I reduced my dosage because I felt that if I was experiencing the high, I probably took my dose too soon. One time I forgot that I had just taken a pill and took another. I double dosed myself and shared the crap outta myself! ROFLMFAO!!! I now know men and women who spent years seeking out that experience. They day it's called chasing the high and I can't for the life of me understand why! I'm not judging...I simply didn't like it after an hour or so of being stoned...I went to bed too sleep it off.
OWEN...Hey brother... I'm with you. I don't need to either label myself nor align myself with such negative connotations to fit into the mold for ANY reason. In fact a man at the meeting tonight stated that he didn't think I am an addict and questioned my presence saying that it was a closed meeting for addicts. He's got 30 years of sobriety. That resonated loudly with me as I have been unable to relate to any of them. I won't bee going back. My MD supports my decision but thought it a good idea for me to experience it so that I might have a complete picture... all the available info so as to make an informed "decision" as to my status as either an "addict" or simply a physically dependent user of pain meds for a legitimate reason. Dang that's a long sentence...and completely corrrct!!! lol
So now I've been referred to support groups for individuals having the same experience with physical withdrawal.
If I never have to look at another narcotic again it'll be too soon. Sadly that day may come.
$eadog
 
Hi Owdn. Hi Mrs Wallace...Mia...in answer to your question, I did occasionally...rarely but definitely felt I was "enjoying" a feeling of euphoria. In considering the neurological pathways that are stimulated as the direct result of opiate use, it's nearly impossible not to. However, when I "came down, I never felt as though I wanted to get high again on purpose. I reduced my dosage because I felt that if I was experiencing the high, I probably took my dose too soon. One time I forgot that I had just taken a pill and took another. I double dosed myself and shared the crap outta myself! ROFLMFAO!!! I now know men and women who spent years seeking out that experience. They day it's called chasing the high and I can't for the life of me understand why! I'm not judging...I simply didn't like it after an hour or so of being stoned...I went to bed too sleep it off.
OWEN...Hey brother... I'm with you. I don't need to either label myself nor align myself with such negative connotations to fit into the mold for ANY reason. In fact a man at the meeting tonight stated that he didn't think I am an addict and questioned my presence saying that it was a closed meeting for addicts. He's got 30 years of sobriety. That resonated loudly with me as I have been unable to relate to any of them. I won't bee going back. My MD supports my decision but thought it a good idea for me to experience it so that I might have a complete picture... all the available info so as to make an informed "decision" as to my status as either an "addict" or simply a physically dependent user of pain meds for a legitimate reason. Dang that's a long sentence...and completely corrrct!!! lol
So now I've been referred to support groups for individuals having the same experience with physical withdrawal.
If I never have to look at another narcotic again it'll be too soon. Sadly that day may come.
$eadog
 
OWEN...Hey brother... I'm with you. I don't need to either label myself nor align myself with such negative connotations to fit into the mold for ANY reason. In fact a man at the meeting tonight stated that he didn't think I am an addict and questioned my presence saying that it was a closed meeting for addicts. He's got 30 years of sobriety. That resonated loudly with me as I have been unable to relate to any of them. I won't bee going back. My MD supports my decision but thought it a good idea for me to experience it so that I might have a complete picture... all the available info so as to make an informed "decision" as to my status as either an "addict" or simply a physically dependent user of pain meds for a legitimate reason. Dang that's a long sentence...and completely corrrct!!! lol
So now I've been referred to support groups for individuals having the same experience with physical withdrawal.
If I never have to look at another narcotic again it'll be too soon. Sadly that day may come.
$eadog

Well, there's no accounting for idiots unfortunately. He sounds like a sick puppy to be perfectly honest, just goes to show that if you stop taking drugs it doesn't necessarily make you clear in the head. As someone with 30 years of sobriety through NA he should know that according to the NA doctrine the only person who can decide whether you are an 'addict' (as per their definition), and therefore whether you had a right to be at the meeting, is you.

I spent a couple of years flitting in and out of NA and I did meet some wonderful people and learn a lot of great stuff about recovery, but when it came down to it I just couldn't assimilate myself with the doctrine so I've decided to try a different route this time. At the moment I go to a very small support group for people with tranquiliser addictions called Battle Against Tranquilisers and am putting together an intergerated care plan with a welfare manager from my uni and my drug worker (who I think is absolutely great, and ironically enough a fellowship person himself). I keep in contact with some people I know from when I was in a 12 step treatment centre and come on here to discuss addiction issues with other people who have them.

You sound like you have a really positive and level mindset that will help you move forwards in recovering from your dependence on drugs. You may not have had the same experiences as 'traditional' addicts, but then as a human you may well have done just in a different walk of life. In my mind it shouldn't make a difference as I'm sure there is stuff I can learn from you and that you could learn from me despite our very different experiences with narcotics. Some of the stuff that applies to me may also apply to you, even if it doesn't feel like it at the moment. One day maybe you will wake up and realise that actually the narcotics were giving you something positive that you just haven't realised it yet, and feel like going back. Maybe (hopefully) not. Being open minded and willing to accept new possibilities is central to ensuring anyone's continuing recovery imo. These are kind of key tenets of the NA program, and as you found out there are often people who have years of recovery that still haven't grasped that basic concept yet. In AA language it's what they would call a 'dry drunk'.

You seem to be well on your way though.:)
 
Owen...G. M.
Brother, it seems not to matter to me this morning. I have a poblem. I'm seeking a solution. For now, whether or not I'm "addict" or dependent, I have an issue with narcotics. Ido believe that qqualifies me to get help.
Where on the planet ar
 
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