• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Tcb-2

dorothyperkins said:
"this one would be hard pressed to not be considered included"
Huh!? it probably is or isnt included?

As for the amphetamine ive no idea weather the extra methyl would help any more. One way to find out, though synth would be a bitch!


The difference is between what the DEA the organization will say, and what their scientists would say on the stand.

They'd definitely take you to court over it. With a good lawyer, you'd probably win.

Knowing what their scientists would say (assuming they use the same criteria from other cases) you'd have a good chance of winning. You could always supoena their scientists, and if they change their minds, use prior court transcripts to impeach them.

I'm still pretty high, though, and can't stop laughing about impeaching and bill clinton and his whole thing.

wow, that's retarded. Why would you even say that in a public forum?
 
So from reading the paper, it seems that the connection between PEAs and ergolines/tryptamines still remains at large. From what I understand, this makes the theory shown in the "Acid/Dragonfly" thread obsolete?

Anyone care to 'dumb it down' a bit?
 
Yeah, though i think his 1998 one with the tetrahydronaphthylamines did more to disprove it. I saw this one first and thought the naphthylamine would be even better. Im still finding it hard to believe theyre completely inactive! Wonder what fastnbulbous thinks?

Dumb what down, that paper? The cyclobutanes a strong ass psychedelic, and the synth kinda sucks!

Actually i still dont get something, the racemic cyclobutane has a similar binding affinity to 2CB, yet the single enantiomer has roughly the same effective dose as LSD, so the racemate should still have half the potency of LSD. The ED50 doesnt seem to fit with the Ki?
 
dorothyperkins said:
Actually i still dont get something, the racemic cyclobutane has a similar binding affinity to 2CB, yet the single enantiomer has roughly the same effective dose as LSD, so the racemate should still have half the potency of LSD. The ED50 doesnt seem to fit with the Ki?

Maybe one enantiomer is a full agonist while the other one is a weak partial agonist or antagonist, so when you use the racemic mix the "inactive" isomer actually blocks the binding of the active isomer to some extent. I'm sure I remember Shulgin saying something about that happening with the active and inactive enantiomers of LSD...
 
But the Ki of the racemate is exactly double that of the R enantiomer. I would think this rules out that explanation?
 
ED50 an Ki values do not always correspond in that manner

it is a plausible result and not in any undue conflict to warrant being an error of some sort
 
Yeah i figured, since the referees would most likely have picked up on it had it been implausible. So which measure do you think gives the best indication of activity in humans? The ed50? If so thats pretty goddamn potent.
 
yes ED50 would be IMO here a good indice to figure a correlaton

the most telling numbers IMO in that study is the ED50 indicatiing a higher potency than LSD for subbing for LSD and as a known comparison it shows DOI being about 1/7 LSD and 1/10 TCB2 which the ratio of LSD to DOI is fairly similar to what is seen with human dosing
 
HUH...subbing so strongly for LSD I am not sure where he gets the idea of thinking plausibility for related compounds to engage treatment for cognitive disorders...???!!!!


We emphasize the fact that 2 is a functionally selective
agonist at the 5-HT2A receptor, having about 65-fold selectivity
for the activation of the PLC signaling pathway over arachidonic
acid release or 2-arachidonylglycerol (2-AG) production (Table
2). Although it is generally assumed that all 5-HT2A agonists
will possess hallucinogenic properties, a belief that has led to
their neglect by the pharmaceutical industry, we challenge that
assumption. We have previously shown that hallucinogenic
activity is better correlated with production of arachidonic acid
than with activation of PLC.16 If hallucinogenic properties are
in fact associated with the production of arachidonic acid, or
other eicosanoids, and not phosphoinositide turnover, it seems
entirely possible that functionally selective 5-HT2A agonists such
as 2 might represent new therapies. In particular, on the basis
of the high expression of 5-HT2A receptors on cortical pyramidal
cells, where agonists at this receptor depolarize the cell
membrane (see review by Nichols12), one could speculate that
functionally selective 5-HT2A agonists might be useful in treating
cognitive and memory deficits.
Thus, the present results are important not only because they
identify the binding orientation of agonists at this receptor but
because they also potentially provide a lead compound for
discovery of novel therapies for various types of cognitive
dysfunction. Finally, these results also provide a compelling case
for conformational restriction as a powerful tool for the design
of functionally selective analogues from nonselective flexible
agonists.
 
Wow, that's incredible. Has there been any research into the cannabinoid systems role in producing serotonin-type psychedelia?
 
With MDMA, DOM, and other chiral psychedelics...most people indicate that the racemate is the better one. I really wonder what a trip on 'racemic' LSD is like. I don't mean the true racemate (all four isomers), but rather a D-LSD/D-iso-LSD mixture.
 
LuxEtVeritas said:
^ oh...unless maybe he wants justification to play around with more psychedelics =D

^Sounds more plausable!

Any other theory for psychedelic PEA/Tryp's would have to also explain why 5HT2a antagonist anti-psychotics are so much more effective(in a sledge hammer kind of way) at aborting a trip.
 
A friend of mine tried it as soon as it came on the market, sold by T. I can't recall the details, but it's active in humans, the activity is pleasant but not necessarily hallucinugenic, human dose is >5mg. Some underground chemists are already dreaming of making it and significantly simplified the synthesis...on paper.
 
For those visually inclined...

TCB.bmp
 
Holy_cow said:
A friend of mine tried it as soon as it came on the market, sold by T. I can't recall the details, but it's active in humans, the activity is pleasant but not necessarily hallucinugenic, human dose is >5mg. Some underground chemists are already dreaming of making it and significantly simplified the synthesis...on paper.

Yes but is the active isomer a better experience as well as simply being as compared to racemate significantly more powerful/?

is anyone thinking of doing the active isomer which assumably is dosed far lower....???
 
Good job Dr Nichols !!!!

Don't forget that only one isomer is really more potent than free-chain 2c-b.
 
I have to double-echo this because I don't think potency is everything. Certainly in the case of MDMA, DOM, and other PEA psychedelics....one isomer may be more potent...but that doesn't make it better.

Winding Vines said:
With MDMA, DOM, and other chiral psychedelics...most people indicate that the racemate is the better one. I really wonder what a trip on 'racemic' LSD is like. I don't mean the true racemate (all four isomers), but rather a D-LSD/D-iso-LSD mixture.
 
MGS: That cyclobutane ring isn't supposed to be fully saturated. The right hand side of that ring is supposed to be an alkene double bond. This adds conformational rigidity.
edit; Wait, no it's not. Move along, nothing to see here :p .
 
morninggloryseed said:
I have to double-echo this because I don't think potency is everything. Certainly in the case of MDMA, DOM, and other PEA psychedelics....one isomer may be more potent...but that doesn't make it better.

I've always found the search for the most potent this or that amusing, along with Tihkal and Pihkal entires where he stops at 50mgs or less.

Imagine if no one thought to try higher than that for mescaline.
 
Top