Targin (Oxycodone + Naloxone) questions

[Flufer]

Hello all,

Long time lurker and first time poster. I have some questions related to the time release medication Targin which contains both Oxycodone and Naloxone in a 2:1 ratio i.e 20mg Oxy to 10mg Naloxone.

To be clear, my purpose for taking Targin is to get the odd high and not primarily for pain relief. I crush the pills and add them to water while stirring before drinking the solution. I've scoured the internet and these forum for answers to my questions but found very limited information. If i have missed a forum thread or research article please direct me that way.

I know that Naloxone has a very low oral bioavailability of ~1%, this is the only way I take the drug. I don't snort, plug or inject it. When i first took it long ago and I had a low tolerance i found i would get a very nice buzz from it (from 10-30mg Oxy, 5-15mg Naloxone). Slightly less of a buzz than pure Oxycodone but adding a little most would compensate. I've found that now my opiate tolerance has increased I don't get anywhere near the same buzz, it any, from higher does of Targin. Hence my questions:

1. When taken orally is there a point where the amount of Naloxone is so high it starts to override the effectiveness of the Oxycodone? I.e 20/30/40mg+ of Naloxone (0.2/0.3/0.4mg making it through with ~1% bioavailability) overrides the 40/60/80mg of Oxycodone reaching the brains opiod receptors.
2. Is there a way to remove/reduce the Naloxone? i.e if it is affected by hepatic first pass, could it be soak in a low pH solution (similar to stomach acid) to kill some of the Naloxone? As i understand it does block opioid receptors that are located in the intestine so i'm not sure if this theory is possible.

Any and all help is appreciated.
Peace.

 

[JessFR]

OK so, in answer to question 1, I am virtually certain that the answer is yes.

In my experience and also that of others I've known, at least in people with much of an existing opioid habit, targin just makes you feel worse not better. Presumably the tolerance is too high to get an effect from the oxy without the naloxone getting high enough to counter it.

Probably exactly what they added the naloxone to do in the first place.


As for question 2. No doubt there is "some" way to remove the naloxone, but it's probably not feasible for regular people like us to. It's probably a case of "if you have to ask, no you can't".

I'm not aware of any way myself. And I'm certain the acid idea won't work because stomach acid isn't responsible for first pass metabolism in the first place. As I recall it's mostly liver enzymes that deactivate the naloxone.

Sooo, sorry I don't know if any way to make oxy+naloxone worth taking if you have a large enough habit. I suspect if an easy way existed I'd have heard of it on the junkie grape vine by now.

I've tried, at best I feel nothing at worst I feel sicker. I knew a guy who took way more than I did and he got really sick.

So yeah.

 

[Nagelfar]

As for question 2. No doubt there is "some" way to remove the naloxone, but it's probably not feasible for regular people like us to. It's probably a case of "if you have to ask, no you can't".

It's not that, many extractions and washes are capable of being done at home esp. with the correct input from someone who knows. The problem here is that it is placed in there specifically in case it is tampered with, and they put science into it. You'd have to have access to at least the same amount of science, maybe a little less, to bypass it.

 

[JessFR]

It's not that, many extractions and washes are capable of being done at home esp. with the correct input from someone who knows. The problem here is that it is placed in there specifically in case it is tampered with, and they put science into it. You'd have to have access to at least the same amount of science, maybe a little less, to bypass it.

I have no doubt that my knowledge of chemistry is very limited, especially compared to some here on bluelight.

But still, I gotta say I'm kinda skeptical that the problem is "not enough science" like science were a numerical quantity.

 

[Nagelfar]

But still, I gotta say I'm kinda skeptical that the problem is "not enough science" like science were a numerical quantity.

Such as maths, for instance, tempature at which naloxone is pyrrolized versus oxycodone, or alcohol solubility of each in an environment of said tempature. One can indeed enumerate all sorts of ways of consideration between factors taken to make it tamper proof against ways to bypass. Science is empirical, especially chemistry, and can be reduced to number and number of ways, it's all about who can think of more in manners that are viable to cause an effect. Anyway, subject has become moot

 

[JessFR]

Such as maths, for instance, tempature at which naloxone is pyrrolized versus oxycodone, or alcohol solubility of each in an environment of said tempature. One can indeed enumerate all sorts of ways of consideration between factors taken to make it tamper proof against ways to bypass. Science is empirical, especially chemistry, and can be reduced to number and number of ways, it's all about who can think of more in manners that are viable to cause an effect. Anyway, subject has become moot

I'm still not confident I fully understand what you're trying to say (although it was definitely clearer in your second post, I appreciate the follow up). But you're right, ultimately this point isn't particularly relevant.

 

[Nagelfar]

Point is: we're counting on our resources against the establishment's ;- j

 

[draculic acid69]

There's not much you can do with them other than eat them unless you can smoke them.try extracting the oxy/Naloxone with water and filtering out any insoluble pill filler then evaporating the water and smoking the powder.maybe Naloxone doesn't smoke well.

 

[hokkaido_princess]

Sigh... targin is a bit too effective at what it does. It's kinda like they want us to avoid pharmaceuticals and endanger ourselves physically and legally by using street drugs. I just want to do well at my studies and have really good relationships with my family and friends... if a pill lets me do these things better, then what's the problem? lol sorry for the bitter rant, this topic is dear to my heart >0<

 

[Imlikeabird]

Sigh... targin is a bit too effective at what it does. It's kinda like they want us to avoid pharmaceuticals and endanger ourselves physically and legally by using street drugs. I just want to do well at my studies and have really good relationships with my family and friends... if a pill lets me do these things better, then what's the problem? lol sorry for the bitter rant, this topic is dear to my heart >0<

I think I might share your feelings. Can you expand on what you mean -how does Targin/oxy help you?

My neighbours dog is prescribed Targin for pain that doesn’t yet have a firm diagnosis, and she struggles with balancing pain relief medication with the other effects of the opioid.

 

[Mordred]

My cat was prescribed Duragesic and the vet thought Targin would be a better alternative. Well the vet hadn’t counted on the Naloxone wiping out the Fentanyl in one fell swoop. Poor kitty spent the next 12 hours puking sweating and declaring revenge on the vet. It’s tricky shit

 

[JessFR]

My cat was prescribed Duragesic and the vet thought Targin would be a better alternative. Well the vet hadn’t counted on the Naloxone wiping out the Fentanyl in one fell swoop. Poor kitty spent the next 12 hours puking sweating and declaring revenge on the vet. It’s tricky shit

It's amazing how vets are so frequently less knowledgeable than your average cat.

 

[Axolotln]

Hi, This is the first time that I have posted in this forum or anywhere on Bluelight, so excuse me if my questions comes across kind of dumb. I am awaiting a full knee replacement this year and my doctor (F) has given me Targin 10/5 to start and take for the pain, as I was up to 4 x 5mg Endone a day and she said that due to the length of time before the operation she didn't want me getting addicted to the Endone medication
What I want to know is that when crushing and drinking the targin with a can of soft drink, does this reduce the amount of Naloxone in the tablet that is absorbed through the gut ? I started taking the tablets as per prescribed but they made me fall asleep and the Naloxone made me feel ill in the stomach, but a friend of mine has told me that by crushing the tablet and swallowing them it will reduce the effectiveness of the Naloxone. Is this true ?
Also, this same friend of mine has told me that Targin works better when taken in smaller doses as prescribed because if you take too much then the Naloxone will take over the Oxycodone. Is this true also.

I hope someone can help me as I still have a long wait until my knee replacement.

I’ve taken almost all forms of Oxycodone, I’ll share my experience in case it is helpful, but it is only one person’s. Stay safe and I always recommend taking medication as prescribed by your practitioner.

Q1: Did you take the Endone as prescribed? Ie every 4-8 hours, 4 times a day = total 20mg per 24hr period?

Q2: are you wanting basic pain relief - or to get high? (You cannot have both without excess supply for the demand, assuming a tolerance and legitimate need both exist).

Q3: what is your Tolerance for the goal? If your tolerance is low, Targin is better for both in my opinion.

Crushing the Targin releases most of the Oxycodone at once rather than over a 12 hour period (so you’d be getting around 9mg Oxycodone for similar timing of the 5mg Endone stated previously taking; you’d not have 24hr pain relief). I’d advise never going over 20mg orally of Naloxone in a 12-24hr period (being 40/20 of the Targin in your case) due to the side effects of the Naloxone, pretty much why it’s added. Also don’t ever snort or inject Naloxone/ Targin. If you’re wanting pain relief over the time, just take it orally as prescribed as 20mg is 20mg of the same drug. If you’re wanting to get high, I found timing the 3hours and 7 hours after initial consumption, the most potent release points for Targin brand oxy. At the 3 hour point being the peak. So mathematically if I took two 10/5= 20/10, the assumption is for 1.7 to 2.5 for the hour, which is not true function. In function I would consume the 20/10, around 1-2 hours I could feel similar to about 5-7mg Endone, around 3 hours about 15mg, then around 5 hours in it would be about 2-3mg until around 7 hours in - which would go back to roughly 5-7mg then down to zero by about the 10th hour. This stayed true for as long as I used Targin. Unfortunately my tolerance is above 40/20 at this time.

When I was taking Endone (for pain) 5mg per 4-8hours =20mg per 12hr period, my tolerance for a buzz was 25-40mg IR. If I was using IR AND Targin/ER. I would wait 2hours after consuming the ER (for the Naloxone to dissipate) to ensure the highest combined dose at the 3 hour point. I used to prefer the Targin brand ER to others, and even to the Endone/ON/ IR (unfortunately tolerance exists). Lastly, Targin felt different to the ON or Endone or Etc. I found them all different; if I could compare Oxycodone to sex, an Endone high was like an intense orgasm with short lived relief, whereas Targin was more of a session you’d be heavy into and absorbed by for hours, worth the icky feeling it sometimes comes with.

 

[Idk why?]

It's not that, many extractions and washes are capable of being done at home esp. with the correct input from someone who knows. The problem here is that it is placed in there specifically in case it is tampered with, and they put science into it. You'd have to have access to at least the same amount of science, maybe a little less, to bypass it.

Is there a wash possible?

 

[Nas47]

Must be highly skilled and equipped to separate this.eatvthe pills like they used to be

 

[Idk why?]

I have 30mg targins but a high tolerance what do you reckon the could be taken orally without the nalaxone starting to negate effects?

 

[Nas47]

How you feel it you?In ratio 2:1 not much

 

[Idk why?]

What do you mean by that?

 

[Nas47]

Lot f naloxone in da pills.that i mean

 

[Idk why?]

Yeah I know it’s shit go pretty sure they are half