Opioids Tapering down and now at 12mgs of Hydro per day

[joeyfristco77]

Thanks for saying that Benjo Diazepine can't be reminded enough that the Xanax is a double edged sword. That's all a person needs is another habit to trade for the opiates.

 

[joeyfristco77]

Today was a struggle as my schedule got all jacked up with work. Tapering is a delicate process for sure! I had to be in for an early meeting and it threw me off some. Had to dose about 2.5mgs @ 8:30am and had breakfast / lunch around 10:30am and come 3:30pm, I was famished and had a snack. Come 5pm I felt like I got hit by a train. Crash! I didn't' expect it and tried to dig deep to get through it but because I had to keep on the move and meet the expectations of a (shit in general), I did what I normally wouldn't do and took 1mg of hydro and not a mg more. I always keep it around in case. So... stuff happens but I did dig ...but the fatigue was setting in deep and I was able to get through the hour mentally and physically. Then at 8pm I just took my Xanax. Going to take the trazadone at 9pm like always. My other half tells me that when I sleep, I don't move when I'm on the Trazadone. It's a nice sleep though and it's an antidepressant. As long as I make sure I'm good and comfortable when I know I'm about to crash (no weird dreams) thus far. PAWS is very real though, I am naturally positive and upbeat so, thinking and focusing on good things and goals doesn't' cause PAWS, right?

 

[simplgrl77]

Hey there Joey.

I completely agree with you about the hydro. After my surgery (at my 1 week f/u appt) I was still in a lot of pain and almost out of my opana so my surgern wrote me for 30 norco. This was about a week b4 christmas. I already had my next opana rx that could be filled on the 26th. I used those norco to do a quick taper. It was quite a jump from about 6 opana 10s/day to a few norco but all in all it wasnt that bad. I suffered for about one full day and about half of the next. Actually Christmas was CT. I thought "wow" could I be free? I felt pretty good. granted it was only one day. I know now that the pain really comes later. I wound up filling my new script like an idiot but it was free since I met my deductible and all.
I guess thats where I got the idea I could just "get er done" and it wouldnt be that bad.
I am seeing an addiction specialist/pschyologist/pain dr. - I was referred to him by my pain management doc after I told him I wanted to quit. I was getting really tired of going to dr appts all the time, dealing with ignorant pharmacists, feeling like people look at you like a druggie, feeling like a druggie, ect..

Its funny but I went in to this guy and said I think I need to stop taking these meds, they dont work anymore (percs). At this time I was being rx'd 4/day but eating 8-10. My ins allows me to fill every 23 days and I would supplement by purchasing a few more. Something around $300/mo that went on for over a year. That part really bothers me. I got a new job and doubled my salary and was working from home 100% so my costs were practically nothing.
I justified spending money since I was saving so much by not having to drive [LAME] Anyway... I knew it needed to stop.
But the first thing this guy said was, "you need to take these meds. I think you are just taking the wrong one. You need a long acting med. The short acting meds dont work for around the clock pain." I was listening.

He told me he usually was sent patients on the docs requests, not the patients. He started me with the infamous oxycontin. I got the new formula ones and they didnt seem to dissolve in my stomach. No doubt digestion issues from years of opiates. I would do my research and could basically ask for whatever I wanted to try. I tried the Oxycontin, Exalgo, Nycanta, Opana ER and came to the realization that none of the ER meds would work due to the time release. not to mention these pills, even with ins were damn expensive! Something between $100-$200 out-of-pocket.
I wound up back on 240 oxycodone IR 10s until I scheduled my surgery. Then I asked for the Opana IRs again which come in generic and last a lot longer.
The biggest problem with these were the fact that you cannot just swallow them. I went thru the first bottle before I discovered I was only getting 10%.

I switched to plugging. Much better! But not when you cant move and just had your stomach cut open. OMG it was hard but it was the only way these would work. Also the constant 20 min laying down period. which is fine if your laid up but if you have stuff to do, it is not an option. That got old fast!

Anyway I was in "medication management". Then he began to feel the pressure from the DEA. He was really up front with me and gave me a few months notice and said he wanted to get rid of all his schedule 2 patients. He treated with suboxone and we discussed that route. I also inquired about the in-patient hospital stay. I wasnt looking for an easy way out, nor replacing one drug for another. He respected that. He actually told me I inspired him.

After my 9 day stint, and breakdown, I got my hands on 25 percs and took them tapered over a 5 day period. The last 3 days I only was taking a half at a time. I believe I was pretty much out of the woods. I didnt have any energy but the creepy crawlies and extreme pain and fatigue had subsided for the most part. I went in to my doc and asked him for a taper plan and I would go about this in a much more controlled and substantial way. He agreed.
However, he could not write me for norcos. He told me it was illegal for him to treat a dependency with a narcotic. He was pulled into court before for treating someone with hydrocodone. The DEA said he should be on methadone. I guess because he is specially licensed to treat addiction he has to use those meds only. Sounds really stupid to treat someone with a vicoden addiction with methadone!

So he said..."Look, I see that you cut your dose in half. Thats huge. I can only treat you for your pain. If you want to taper, thats up to you. I cannot give that to you." So he wrote me the same script for half the amt of pills. Unfortunately, opanas are super duper strong.

I waited 2 days to fill the rx just to see how I felt. I had to take some trams and the Trazadone at night but I felt much better. I did fill the script though.
I am going to write out a taper schedule and stick to it. You are so right in that the whole w/d thing is crap. Tapering is hard but thats nothing compared to the WD. Remembering what I had gone thru those 9 days will hopefully keep me from obliging the 'just one more' mentality.

So far I am taking 10mg 2x a day. I will be figuring out a plan and tomorrow I will begin my taper. I am going to use your 5 day plan. I think thats good.
One dose for 5 days. Then move down a notch. For this I am considering crushing/ mixing with bactrostatic water and storing in a vial and taking smaller and smaller ML. That way I can get below the 10mg doses.

Also I have to see what this PAWS is all about. I am not sure what that is. Sounds like maybe depression?

Anyway, I will stop rambling. My mind is really kinda jacked up. I am a programmer and used to be a really quick thinker and now I feel like half a retard.
My thoughts are all scrambled and sometimes I have no idea what Im even trying to say. geeze. I hope my brain is still there somewhere...

Thanks again for continuing to share your story. Your success! This is quite the journey. It helps me to think of it as accomplishing something, rather than loosing something. Since we are defiantly gaining more than loosing. Its easy to forget that sometimes.

Stay Strong

 

[joeyfristco77]

Yes, this is really quite a pain this hole tapering process and you have to embrace it and respect it, can't just take a little more because "you" want to. I let things/stress get to me, and although it was 1mg, the fact that I didn't have the energy really got to me. My stomach is pretty good (knock on wood) and I do feel fine so I'm not gonna let that 1mg get me down but I really did feel like I had ZERO gas. I have to say, it's a pretty harsh feeling when you feel fine but you have no energy and well... you have to work. I'm going to try and take 1mg in the morning Sat. and 1mg in the afternoon and the same on Sun. and then hopefully carry that into Mon.. For me it is not just psychological, that zero energy fatigue was very real and it came out of no where, like a switch .

This morning I took my 2.5mgs and I'm gonna eat a late lunch now at 3pm. I only have two hours left and don't have to work with anyone today so come 5pm, if I get hit again with that fatigue, it is what it is. I will just deal and go till 6pm when I get home and take .25mg of Xanax to chill out. Glad my tolerance is low on that stuff still.

 

[Benjo Diazepine]

I don't understand.. you seem to be saying your experiencing PAWS, but you're still on the opioids? PAWS will come later- POST acute withdrawal syndrome. Excuse me if I'm misreading you.

 

[joeyfristco77]

I am not sure what it is, aches, total fatigue, lack of motivation, don't even want to stand up. Just wanted to sit there and not have to move a muscle. It was only about 8 1/2 to 9 hours since I took the 2.5mgs, so what would that be? Perhaps just plain old exhaustion and my mind justifying that as the reason to take another 1mg (because I'm caught at work still). I need to take the ibuprofen probably and did today? I just think I took my dose too early? At this low dose?? Paranoia? Admittedly, stupidity?

 

[ReversiblePulpitis]

I think it's a combination of PAWs (yes you're still taking opioids, but considering your dosage vs your tolerance due to past dosages)... I think your body has already entered into this stage (PAWs = depression = malaise) since jumping off of your hydro at this low of a dose is not going to cause any sort of major typical withdrawal symptoms --- I think you've already experienced the worst of the acute stuff during your taper.

otherwise I think the malaise is also minor acute withdrawal symptoms since you still are taking the hydro, regardless of the small dose.

All in all, you're suffering from what sounds like adrenal insufficiency and lingering testosterone suppression. All of which cause your fatigue and malaise.

So, your low dose hydrocodone is helping to compensate for the two things mentioned above, but at the same time, you won't be able to regain these functions naturally without totally getting off the drug. If you kept it at this low dose, your body MAY regain more of these functions, but it's just going to take longer than if you jumped off completely.

Your low dose hydro is a crutch for your adrenal insufficiency and testosterone suppression.

 

[joeyfristco77]

Thank you! I'm going to try to just relax than this weekend... and not take any hydrocodone, not go anywhere and see what happens.

 

[joeyfristco77]

So yesterday (Saturday) I took nothing till about 4pm, .25mg of Xanax. Had stomach cramps, malaise and some anxiety, lack of drive or motivation but nothing too severe given this scenario but I had to take an 1½ immodums (little green pills). Today this morning I still have some stomach issues and yesterday I did eat two meals, 11am breakfast and 7pm dinner.

This morning at 10am I am going to take 1.25mg of Hydro just to see if it helps since I have to work tomorrow. I'm a tiny bit concerned that I'll be dealing with stomach and the aforementioned issues during work so, we'll see, but I am definitely getting there.

Slept from 10pm - 5am, so about 7 solid hours of rest. I am still taking the Xanax at night and Trazadone so that will remain the same till the hydro is all done.

Gonna see if I can hold on 1.25mg of Hydro today... I think I can and depending how it goes, this will continue either at 1.25mg a day or every other day, depending on how I feel at work.

 

[joeyfristco77]

Almost 1:30pm and I'm feeling pretty good so far (knock on wood). Today (although I didn't want to) I decided that I would take .25mg of Xanax as my anxiety wasn't so good. Doing bills and taxes (not exactly relaxing).
I think if I can get off the Hydro and keep the xanax below 1mg for the day for the next week, I'm going to be off the hydro. Then I will just taper off the Xanax (it's a great tool) and that's what I'm looking at it as (a tool, and only a tool). Gonna have some lunch now. Not too much but not too small, gotta keep hydrated too.

J

 

[somedudeoutthere]

joey, how are you dividing up the pills to those low doses?

 

[joeyfristco77]

Hey somedudeoutthere. I just cut em up with a pill cutter, used a good milligram scale. Weigh a few of the pills to get the correct weight, they're pretty close. I'd speculate that I'm close enough and at this point, it has worked out fine.

OK.... I can't believe it but I made it to 5pm on 1.25mg of Hydro taken at 10am and .25mg of Xanax at 1:30pm.

I have eaten today; a late breakfast and lunch and haven't done a lot of activities, just stuff around the house. This was a huge step, so I'm officially down to 1.25mgs of Hydrocodone a day and the .25mg of Xanax, which is breaking the rules in a way, didn't make me tired or want to sleep, just evened me out. I did have stomach issues (just for the record) and have had a little Imodium in the last two days. Nothing extreme though, just a little.

I'm going to see how late I can go before taking any more Xanax.

I will just take the 1.25mg of hydrocodone through Friday. Come next Sat. and Sun... that's it. I'm done! At all costs I will avoid undue stress or triggers that could set me off., whatever it takes to get through this week and "OFF" the opiates. I've done it, I'm almost home. I've realized that I have to stay busy but I might hit a snag or two and if so, I need to deal with either Xanax and or Imodium but it's only for a week. So far no major fatigue which is what I'm "most" concerned about. I hate that shiftless feeling, not having any desire or drive to do "anything"! I've been lucky thus far, no major fatigue except for that one day but, live and learn. Don't subject yourself to a lot of stress when you're tapering, you're just not going to fare very well, at least I don't, even at this ridiculously low level. I guess that's just my system?

No Ibuprofen today and no aches.

 

[hefe1313]

nice dude congrats

 

[joeyfristco77]

Hey hefe. Thanks.

Stomach issues today, this is definitely going to a different level of discomfort, so will take Imodium as needed. Am taking about one 2mg pill per day to deal with the usual suspects related to abdominal cramps and keeping trips to the toilet to a minimum. I know some people have "far" more intense symptoms but considering the small amounts of hydrocodone that I've been taking/tapering, it's probably par for the course? I'm so focused on getting off this crap and getting on with my life that I've almost completely turned off my mind and rarely think about taking more. I can always get more but once again, I have been able to focus on my life now.

 

[simplgrl77]

Hey Joey! You are almost there! Good job man! That is certintly an accomplishment. Remember that. You have achieved something not a lot of people can, or will do on their own.
Thanks again for sharing.

 

[joeyfristco77]

Hi simplgrl77, hope your efforts are going well too, I'll take all the support I can get from all the good people on the forum! bluelight is like a family of people that are going through the same shit for a variety of reasons and learning how to deal with it, and although I mostly note what I'm going through, I dont' always know how things will pan out, and if I'm heading in the wrong direction, it's awesome how people call you out for it. It's an important aspect to try and engage everyone that's chiming in if you are able to. I certainly appreciate everyone who has commented and I hope that my mentions will help someone else out. Feel free to share. Even after reading the forums for a while I still didn't know what would work for me but I took a stance and I believed in the schedule and stuck to it. I think that was one of the most important parts. Don't rush your taper, embrace it but manage it too.

Today was another awesome day! Ate breakfast and lunch, took 1.25mgs of hydrocodone at 10am and .25mg of Xanax at 12N and aside from a "little" stomach discomfort I felt pretty good, nice and even. I am definitely a lot clearer in general in the mental sense. I was expecting some fatigue but it was hardly noticeable and I kept drinking fluids all day long. I was expecting anxiety but I guess by taking the Xanax at 12N I more than likely prevented it?

I am really looking forward to Friday (my last day on hydrocodone). I'm thinking that come Sat. and Sunday that I won't feel too much PAWS-fatigue like I have in the past when I would go 3-4 days without realizing that I had a 80-100mg of Oxycontin a day habit. I didn't even know why I felt so tired, man do I feel lame. Now I do after reading the tapering threads. So I guess it's not really necessary to have much withdrawal and discomfort if you can get pissed off at the opiates and take control back and see the taper to the end?

Going to take my Xanax at 8pm and then the Trazadone at 9pm - 9:30pm. If I take 50mg of Trazadone at 9:30pm and then start feeling tired, and take another 50mg, just as I start to feel sleepy, maybe 20 or so mins. later, then I sleep a solid 7+ hours. When I awake around 6am I feel just fine and ready to go to work. Otherwise, if I just take the 100mg at 9pm then I wake up around 4:30am - 5am and lye in bed for a while after falling asleep about 9:40pm.

I'm gonna just try and cruise through the week and go with the flow, I definitely feel better than I did last week. I was tempted to not even take any today but I figured, I might as well just stick with this taper, I've come this far, it's only four more days and I'm done. Whatever happens after that I should be able to deal with?

Next week I will stop taking the .25 of Xanax during the day and maybe take .125mg for a week during the day? I understand that you really have to respect Xanax or it will bite you hard and deep! Then at night I'll taper that Xanax dosage down as well. Then I'll only be taking Trazadone. I also plan to stop taking Trazadone and will taper off of that last. Since I don't drink much alcohol these days, maybe the occasional beer(alcohol supposedly interferes with your sleep not to get off topic), I think I'll get my ability to sleep back and will just be able to focus on my career and my family. My efforts to sleep will be via sleepy time tea and perhaps some reading.

J

 

[joeyfristco77]

Tomorrow is the final day, and so far this week I've been pretty even in general. Some stomach issues still and a little anxiety and a minor amount of fatigue. Hoping to stop taking the imodium pretty soon. How long do people end up taking Imodium? So far it has been about a week and I have been at about one 2mg pill per day. I think I'm gonna try and stop the coffee in the morning for a while and stick with tea. Coffee is probably not helping me with my stomach or anxiety.

 

[ReversiblePulpitis]

Joey,
Try not to treat tomorrow, the next day; any different from the rest. Laying low on coffee may be smart, but otherwise, you sure don't want to convince your mind/body that these upcoming days are any different.
Great work, good luck!

 

[joeyfristco77]

Thanks ReversiblePulpitis you have really helped me out, don't take your knowledge for granted! I appreciate it.

Is it possible that even 1.25mgs a day could prevent PAWS? If so... my biggest challenge has been the occasional stomach cramp (nothing painful, and trust me I know what painful stomach cramps are like) and anxiety when at work in meetings. I only took the Xanax when I was gonna be in a meeting so that I could maintain an even keel.

 

[joeyfristco77]

Here is Monday and it has now been three days and I feel very even in general, no PAWS, just a smidgen of anxiety but nothing major. Will report back at the end of the week if there's anything worth mentioning. Cheers all!