Opioids Tapering down and now at 12mgs of Hydro per day

[Bruce Haze]

Orange's conversion is near perfect. Rhun sorry but I dont think you had any idea or a credible source. Nice job tapering OP! Shouldn't be too rough!

 

[joeyfristco77]

I'm going to just jump down today and alter my plan to the following:

7am 2.5mg of hydro and then just deal with it all day long and if I have to, a nip of Xanax, .25mg though and I'll have my Immodium with. As disgusting as it may be (I'll keep the details minimal) it's important to be as regular as possible but pretty challenging when taking Imodium it's true as was mentioned in order to keep things moving but I have found that prune juice is very effective for me (not too much) about 4 oz. as the laxatives can be a bit uncomfortable. Between the Immodium and prune juice (they even have something in pill form called Prune Lax) which is a "little" stronger in strength. I've also discovered "probiotics" really help your digestive tract. I know everyone is different and after doing some homework I went with a super strong dose of probiotics that have 35 billion cultures and wow, that really helped so far. You can get it in strengths starting at 1billion cultures. A lot of people take it when traveling to other foreign countries to protect themselves from getting sick when they are have different choices of food and are not able to stick with what they normally eat. For instance, if you're in Morocco, you're not going to get healthy food everywhere you go, who knows what will be on the menu?

I'm just going to go this weekend with the 2.5mg's per day, take my probiotics, have my xanax and Immodium and prune products and some ibuprofen if any aches comes on. I know I could probably just quit right now, but I need to be productive and have given it some thought. Why waste three days in bed when I could be relaxing for a few hours, but still go out, have some fun and perhaps never feel like crap? Since I have not been taking nearly what I thought I would be taking and the tapering down now to 2.5mgs is practically nothing, I might go at some point with 1mg every other day if I get blasted with anxiety issues or lose my energy.

When I was three months into my habit, I stopped for about a week, and I felt fine in general, except for one thing, I felt like my body was made of bricks and I just had no energy and could hardly move around I was so low on energy. I need to avoid that and or keep it minimal and like some have been saying, watch the Xanax, as it will bite you. I do not want to have to take that during the day at all (if avoidable) as that's just trading one habit for another, but I will take it if it's after working hours. So today, it sounds like I am in for a little discomfort since I'm use to taking a dose at 12Noon but I won't be. I need to get to 5pm before I touch the Xanax. I will try this for the next three days since we have a three day weekend in the U.S..

I'm still eating three square meals a day and gaining some weight back. I just want to emphasize that eating regularly and sleeping at the same time everyday has really really helped me. I always hated being so structured in the past, but well, it works for me now even though it's not my nature, but I felt it was an integral part of cutting the chains off between myself and opiates.

J

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P.S. In regards to all of the mention about Oxy and Hydro - codone, Oxy is definitely stronger. I also think it's worth mentioning that Hydrocodone unless you get Vicoprofen, the hydrocodone with APAP is much worse on your liver than Roxicodone. The strongest "pill" that I have ever touched (also the most expensive opiate) is Opana A.K.A. Oxymorphone and that's when you insufflate it. That stuff will destroy you and take your tolerance and sky-rocket it. Not to get off topic, but I was taking 40mg of Oxy and then I decided to try the Opana, big mistake, 30mg pillls, remove the outlayer, cut into three parts, crush, cut and insufflate. I then ran out and that's when I made the jump from 40mg to 60mg of Oxy in the beginning. Opana is the strongest substance when it comes to pills, damn did I feel good. I would never go to the needle, that's just not my thing.

Another reality that made me realize something. What will happen if I ever need a surgery, get another kidney stone, or get into an accident, and I need something for pain? I just need to be as close to normal in this regard as possible so that I don't ever have to explain to my doctor that I am addicted and therefore I need more and this goes on record. Who knows what will happen in the future and how that will effect my medical insurance or how well protected Dr. - Patient confidentially will be down the road. They're are currently "trying to fuck with the constitution - 2nd Ammendment." My business is my business and I don't want to share this with the world and be judged. That's the reality of it in my opinion.

 

[down508]

12 mg of hydro a day is nothing dude. Try taking 5 mg a day for a week then just stop. That is if u even want to bother.

 

[ReversiblePulpitis]

Joey,

I wouldn't worry about Rx'ed opioids for acute pain in the future. Your tolerance IS going to go down (already is), and will eventually be back to naive status (months-years?).
By that time, normal doses will work for you, and your commitment to your sobriety should keep you from over-indulging. I've found that when I have REAL acute pain, that all I care about is obtaining analgesia/pain relief and not a high. Just stick to the Rx'ed instructions for the pills, and throw them out if you are out of pain before finishing them. Ibuprofen is AMAZING for pain relief. Due to it's properties as a strong anti-inflammatory in the 600-800mg dose range (unlike Tylenol, that drug should have never been combined with hydro or oxy), it's strongly underestimated and under-used in the community of folks who have convinced themselves that pain relief is impossible without an opiate.

How's your taper going today?

 

[rhun]

Orange's conversion is near perfect. Rhun sorry but I dont think you had any idea or a credible source. Nice job tapering OP! Shouldn't be too rough!

LOL coming from someone who has NO source at all. Nice.
You should read the whole thread before making dumb comments.
For the third time I recalled 10x incorrectly. I even said I wasn't sure when I said it and I was the one who said it was incorrect before random people jumped in with OMG YOU'RE WRONG OMG.
But the point is, oxycodone IS stronger than hydrocodone. Let's leave it at that.

OP, AWESOME job so far Don't let people rush you into tapering faster than you're comfortable with. People assume it's all about getting off opiates, but it's really not. The hardest part is what comes after... PAWS. Stay healthy, keep busy, and stay positive.

About the surgery thing, I wouldn't be too concerned with it... your tolerance will go down. Was any of the opiates you were taking legally prescribed? If so, you could explain that you have a tolerance. Honestly though, when you're in the hospital they'll pump you full of morphine till you're comfortable. And when you go home you can take as many of the pills as you need to be to be out of pain. But trust me, you don't need opiates for pain as much as you think. Controlling swelling with ice and iboprofen is the most important thing to keep the pain minimal. And just force yourself to rest and heal.

 

[joeyfristco77]

I think the PAWS is gonna be rough. I agree rhun and thanks for saying that. I'm no expert here, just reporting what I'm feeling and how I am dealing with it. I am trying to push it and "my body" said stop and gave in.

OK, so I didn't do so well today. I went with:

2.5mg at 7am

by 2pm I had eaten breakfast and lunch and was running around having a good day, nice out, keeping busy and then about 2:15pm - 2:30pm I started feeling the anxiety coming on out of "no where." Not really bad but it was uncomfortable... so I just went home, sat down on the couch, and tried to relax. Just started feeling worse. Not horrible but definitely uncomfortable angst.

3pm I took 1mg but still felt crappy.

4pm I took another 1mg and now I feel OK. It's true that for some people 12mg is nothing but for me, I have the strength to taper but I do have to have some patience and can't just force it.

I made it to 5pm so I will now take the .25mg of Xanax and see how it goes.

Hot shower was awesome at 5pm, thankfully no work for two more days. I don't hate work it but it's hard when you're doing this.

Thanks for asking ReversiblePulpitis and for the comments. I agree that Ibuprofen is very helpful and effective unless of course you take so much that your gut hurts as a result. I've been there before when dealing with a dental related issue.


I think tomorrow I will just go with:

2.5mg @ 7am
breakfast at 8am
1mg @ 12Noon
lunch at 1pm or 1:30pm

Today was the first day in about 45 days that I did not take my 12N dose of an opiate.

When I get hungry I feel like I can eat a horse now that I'm hardly taking anything. I guess because I've been taking opiates for a year I'm gonna feel something, that's just how this works. No stomach cramps yet, and I have enough energy that I can still do things like go to the store or run an errand.

too_legit's story is very much nearly the same reason I took opiates to begin with. I used them to manage my stress levels, because they were out of fucking control.

 

[ReversiblePulpitis]

Curious, how are you able to divide your pill into a 1mg dose? Obviously its approximate, but still curious.

If you wanted to get crazy with dosing slightly more accurately, and even being able to dose smaller amounts than you are now -- you could do CWE with a known amount of drug, measure the remaining water and doing the math to calculate your oral doses with a syringe. With the APAP out of the way and already being dissolved, you might even find it to be more effective. Just thinking out loud.

Of course doing a double filtration might be warranted, just to make sure you get as much out as possible.

 

[joeyfristco77]

I have a digital scale and get 10mg norcos and simply weigh the pill, then cut them up into bits of 1.25 to 1.5mg and weigh them. Scales are a great time saver.

 

[joeyfristco77]

OK... so I was talking to my doctor-friend last night explaining what's going on and explaining that when I eat I feel like it's a lot harder to get through the tapering process. He said that I need to eat as I have been but to "not" take anything in the morning, see how I feel, drink the Emergen-C vitamin water and not go running around, but take it easy and see how long I can go before I take my first dose.

Interesting perspective but check this out... here I am, it's 9:30am, I haven't touched the hydro yet nor have I had anything for breakfast and I feel really good so far. I have had a nice big cup of coffee as well. I want to eat but the most important thing for me is to get off the opiate.

What should I eat and obviously drinking a lot of fluids is a good thing. I drink about 4 12 oz glasses of water.

Thoughts? I am going to take my morning dose at 10am of 2.5mg.

 

[hefe1313]

Maybe a banana OJ an egg and piece of toast or small bowl of oat meal

 

[joeyfristco77]

It worked, I waited till 10am and just ate a small sandwich and been drinking lots of water and emergency and small snacks, raisins and sunflower seeds. It's now 3:30pm and I'm feeling fine. If I can make it till 5pm then I'm down to 2.5mgs per day and no PAWS yet.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Your brain is probably producing way more endogenous opiates than the miniscule amount of hydro youve managed to taper down to. I think you could jump off at this point and not experience withdrawals at all unless you psych yourself out.

 

[joeyfristco77]

I made it by not eating like a horse. yee haaa! That said, as lame as this sounds, the timing, not eating a lot of food and eating enough to provide nourishment and not thinking about "anything" negative did the trick. I made it today on 2.5mgs. I will just go with this 2.5mg for a few days and then see how it goes! Today was an awesome day! Don't even have an ounce of anxiety either. Will take it as long as I can go!!!

 

[ReversiblePulpitis]

Congrats Joey! Very proud of you.
You take ALL the time you need at doses at or below your 2.5mg. As you know and as others have stated, that's such a minuscule amount, that you're totally in the clear. If you need to stay at or below that dose for 6 damn months, in the name of keeping yourself from relapsing, and keeping yourself comfortable - then please do so. Due to the half-life of hydro, you're eliminating it faster than you're taking it at this point, so I think your BODY is in the clear. Just do what you need to for your psyche.

 

[joeyfristco77]

Thanks Dr. Pepper and ReversiblePulpitis, I "really" appreciate the feedback. I was pretty much "afraid" to have extreme PAWs so... I agree that it has a lot to do with the psychology here. I am gonna just go with the 2.5mgs for 3-4 days and then cut down to 1mg per day for a few more days just to finish this completely. I will report back. Like most all are saying just jump off now, but I don't want to put any energy into thinking about it too much and just go with what my body has been telling me to do. I think that I will go for a nice long walk though today since I don't have to work. So far, my stomach has been pretty good too, I have only had to take Imodium a maybe 3 or 4 times in the last few weeks. Once again today I did take the Probiotics too. I have been very careful with what I have been eating too, nothing spicy or difficult to digest.

 

[ReversiblePulpitis]

Thanks Dr. Pepper and ReversiblePulpitis, I "really" appreciate the feedback. I was pretty much "afraid" to have extreme PAWs so... I agree that it has a lot to do with the psychology here. I am gonna just go with the 2.5mgs for 3-4 days and then cut down to 1mg per day for a few more days just to finish this completely. I will report back. Like most all are saying just jump off now, but I don't want to put any energy into thinking about it too much and just go with what my body has been telling me to do. I think that I will go for a nice long walk though today since I don't have to work. So far, my stomach has been pretty good too, I have only had to take Imodium a maybe 3 or 4 times in the last few weeks. Once again today I did take the Probiotics too. I have been very careful with what I have been eating too, nothing spicy or difficult to digest.

You sir, are a poster child for a successful taper. That said, it's obviously the man that makes the taper, not the taper that makes the man. Have you always had this positive energy and strong will power as well as this conviction that's made you so successful?

Choosing to stay on course with your current "pace" with your taper only makes sense considering YOU are ready to be off of this stuff. While your body will tell you by way of things like diarrhea, I imagine that many symptoms you feel your body may be telling you are actually coming from your mind. Re-wiring your reward center is going to take a long time, and despite your success -- your brain's still looking for a way to get you to "reward" it again. Considering 2.5mg/day or below is definitely not hurting anything other than the obvious -- prolonging your psychological dependence. I really do think it's safe to say that you are not prolonging the physical or physiological dependence to any significant degree (obviously not ideal til at 0mg). As Dr Pepper believes, as do I -- your endogenous opiates/hormones are all kicking into gear, que the reason why you feel as well as you do.
Anyway, due to your psychological response to your brain's rewired physiology, these last couple of mg may prove to be more difficult than you expect? So, just don't underestimate it.... but you obviously (ive said that word alot) have an amazing sense of who you are and what you want, so I think you're more than capable of overcoming it. Just don't leap too quickly when you don't necessarily have to (but you did say you do have your antennae at full throttle to detect symptoms).

 

[joeyfristco77]

Thanks ReversiblePulpitis , this has not been easy.

I have always worked hard and have accomplished a lot, at lease a lot to me. I made a career change and it has caused me a lot of stress, so the pills were there to help me with stress so that I wouldn't freak out. They did actually help, but then I got to the point where I just could not continue and needed to stop or lose it all potentially. People and job, my tolerance just continued to increase, my savings drained and I have been making a lot of excuses for things I have and have not been accomplishing while on these pills and I simply cannot continue as I don't want a life on opiates or to be chained to any substance for that matter. It's a simple control issue in my mind. I lost control and now I am taking it back. I have my struggles like most people. So far I haven't really F'd up terribly but it wasn't looking good and could have very easily have gotten really ugly and I'd had enough. Had a few panic attacks and a little malaise and I don't like being uncomfortable and miserable. I've been reading bluelight as it keeps me on my toes (scared straight so to speak) when I see how people go up and down and endure so much pain and angst. I just can't live like that. The alternative is simply a much better life style. F withdrawals, I don't have that sort of strength to endure such misery. Reminds me of that Mickey Rourke movie, "Bar Fly," where he says you gotta have endurance in order to live like this (hard core alcoholic). I don't have the endurance or inclination to go up and down like some people do and I see how opiates often wring people out like a wet towel! That scares the sheeite out of me. No thank you! I get it...so taper is my only option. I also had a nightly whiskey habit for a while and put that down. It's a personality trait for sure. I tend to just pick stuff up (sometimes not so good stuff)but also stop when I really have to. I scare easy I guess because I suffer from a syndrome that causes me major pain with my digestive system (long story short). I've already endured more pain than most people will in their lifetime as a result of it. It's so god damn painful that I'm sort of lucky to have it so that I don't kill myself by way of drugs and or alcohol. My system just can't handle withdrawals or booze else it would be like taking a hammer and smacking myself with it. I'd be a goner for sure in just a matter of time and it would hurt like hell.

 

[simplgrl77]

Hey joeyfristco77! You are very inspiring!
On Jan 10th I decided I had enough. Unfortunately, I did not plan out a taper schedule and just sort of winged it. I wrote down what I took and when but after 9 days I snapped and decided I needed to rethink my strategy.
I have an appt tomorr with my PM doc and hopefully he will put me on a taper plan. I was taking 60mg of Opana IR and dropped to 20mg for 2 days, then bounced around from 10-2 mg over the next 7 days. I did all the suffering since I would wait 12-17 hours between doses, but I dont think I was making any real progress since I was redosing when it got unbarable.
I had really good intentions and honestly did not think it would still be kicking my ass after 9 days. It actually got way worse on the 9th day but that was prob because it was the first time I went cold turkey even though it felt like 9.
I know I was not being realistic nor fair by trying to do such a fast taper.8) I was just really determined and thought I could muscle thru it. I also just (and I mean JUST) got back on my feet from a hernia surgery so I was also taking a LOT more temporarily. After taking pills (mostly percs 80-100mg/day)every single day for the past 5 years and taking these Opana IRs for the last 5 mo or so, I realized I really need to give my mind and body more time to adjust.
It is really great to hear from someone who is so positive. THank you for posting all your experiences. I really like the idea of keeping regular wake/eat/sleep times.
unfortunatly, I am not working right now which is good and bad. Im so bored and its frigging freezing out so I cant just go outside either. Timing really blows. But I am super excited to be off these meds.

 

[joeyfristco77]

Hey simplgrl77, it really does take time and I just think about all the things that I need to accomplish and I admit I think about taking a little extra sometimes, but then I have to think about what it's doing to me. Seems like you always have to ask yourself, continuously, am I making forward progress or am I lying to myself? Five years is a long time, so sounds like you've got a longer taper than me I would imagine?

Today I took 2.5mgs at 10am, ate breakfast at 7am, ate lunch at 11am. I am just now starting to feel really good, normal at 2.5mg a day. Today is the first day I got a little ache but also the first day that I ate my normal meals and haven't felt really fatigued afterwards. What a relief! Oh ya!

I still take my Xanax at night and the Trazadone but am trying to take as little Xanax as possible and come this next Monday, I'm gonna take 1mg a day of the hydrocodone for a week, as stupid as that may sound. You really have to stop the Opana and or Oxy, that's too hard to taper in my opinion, from what I've extrapolated from the threads here. Some sources on this site are amazing, lots of knowledge! I'd say to go with the Hydrocodone and the scale is important. You have to take the time and get your meds and make sure you have all your doses and sure it's a lot of work just to make sure you've always got the right doses but look at the alternative. Just try to figure out how much you need and tell yourself, if you try to take more, that you're just taking from "yourself." These opiates are wicked, they make booze seem easy.

Now that I'm working I also have to be responsible and keep track of my meds and not drop or leave them anywhere. It's one more chore, but make it your job, to manage the process. Then after a week I'm going to stop and if need be, take 1mg every other day, if the head games come on. I guess whatever works for each person is different. I just know that I need to do this all the way and taper down so that I have the softest landing possible, not in a hurry to crash and get it over with. Just to do it right. I think I'm feeling good enough on the 2.5mg though that my PAWS won't be so bad? I feel better than I have since I started taking these damn pills. Sleeping every night and doing everything at the same time is very important for me. I hate being so structured but that's what it came down to. It's just so much easier to get your body into a regimen. Sure, I'll nibble on a little Imodium here and there but very little and if I get a little ache here and there, I pop 200mg of Ibuprofen and am drinking that Emergen-C stuff (two - three a day), and I like my coffee in the morning (that's probably not a wise choice). I also drink a lot of water. I try "not" to eat food that's hard on my stomach and those probiotics are making the digestive issues a "lot" better, they're truly effective. I understand that they create more normal bacteria in your digestive system and this helps to cope with the digestive process in general. Just one more tool in the whole tapering process.


Cheers and good luck!
J

 

[Benjo Diazepine]

You seem to be doing everything right so your PAWS shouldn't be too bad. I think it can be VERY bad if you cold turkey off, which IMO is ALWAYS a bad idea.
Watch it with the benzos. Try to skip it now and then if you can. PAWS from that can go on for years. Scary stuff.