Opioids Tapering down and now at 12mgs of Hydro per day

[joeyfristco77]

Hi all,

I have been reading the tapering threads now for about a month and have tapered down after using for about one year of about 100mg of Oxy per day and now am down to 12mg of Hydrocodone per day.

I have a day job now and need to work so I need to try and minimize the PAWS and would appreciate any feedback. Should I just keep tapering down to 1mg. My mind is obviously made up and I have no intentions of relapsing, just can't afford to do anything but quit completely.

On Thurs. I was at 15mg and then started 12mg on Friday and will be at 10mg this Wed., I usually make an adjustment every 4-5 days since I have to work and act normal. If I have to, I will take this down to 1mg per day because I need to work, but am wondering how this will end and what the good people of the forum might have to say? I have a three day holiday coming up so I will try to use that, but of course, come Tues. I will have to work. I have been going to the gym and exercising and eating healthy so, I do have a life, I'm just getting down to the end here and want to make the PAWS as minimal as possible?

 

[rhun]

I'm pretty sure I recall Oxycodone being 10x stronger than Hydrocodone. So 12mg hydro is a very, very small amount compared to the 100mg Oxycodone you were at. Could you cold turkey now? Yes. However, I'm sure you will experience some minor WD symptoms. Muscle aches, runny nose, some trouble sleeping, diarrhea. I would say nothing overly extreme and it would be completely manageable with a benzo (optional but really helps, loperamide, multivitamins, omegas, and some l-tyrosine/b complex for energy, 5HTP for depression/mood, kava kava for anxiety if you can't get benzos, and melatonin/advil PM for sleep.

It's really up to you. If you're feeling like you just want to be done and get it over with on the three days you have off, then do it. If you are really worried about work and being sick then of course you could just keep tapering down to nothing. You can even take 1mg every other day before stopping entirely. It's really whatever you think will work best for you in the long term.

For myself and many others, PAWS is worse than the physical WDs and those can last for months after physical symptoms dissipate. Stay busy, exercise, work on positive thinking and just doing things for yourself... Getting a new haircut, buying yourself bath salts for long baths, take a yoga class, learn a new sport.. things that will make you feel good about yourself. Your natural endorphins are going to take a long time to get back to normal, your body is used to being flooded with artificial endorphins from opiates and has stopped producing its own basically. So you want to do as much as you can to boost your endorphins. And be patient, it will take time for your receptors to normalize.

Edit: Good job with the exercise and eating healthy, keep it up. Sounds like you're on the right track, just keep going with that.

 

[SaosinEngaged]

Hydrocodone is actually much more potent than Oxycidone. However the oral BA is around 10% so it somewhat evens out.

 

[rhun]

^ That's not correct.
"oxycodone is up to five times stronger than hydrocodone"
http://www.imedwell.org/Oxycodone-vs-Hydrocodone.html

Just a random site I picked out of many that also agree cause I'm too tired from work to really look.

Another one..
"The oxycodone vs. hydrocodone strength helps differentiating between the two. Hydrocodone is not as strong as oxycodone. It helps in relieving mild to moderate pain. Whereas, oxycodone is stronger in strength and helps relieve moderate to severe pain."
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/oxycodone-vs-hydrocodone.html

I would like to correct myself above though.. I was not recalling correctly, 10x is incorrect.
It seems to be between 1.5x, 3x, and 5x depending on what you read

 

[Deadhead420]

I think both of you are wrong...

Oxycodone is stronger but definitely not in the ranges you guys are saying. I'd say maybe 40mg oxy = 60mg hydro. It may be even less hydro that. It's definitely not twice as strong and CERTAINLY not 5-10 times as strong. I think maybe you're confusing oxycodone with oxymorphone, the latter is much stronger.

EDIT: To OP, great job in tapering. 12mg hydrocodone a day is really very little so I would be surprised if you would be unable to work through the withdrawals. I would say taper aggressively until your 3 day break then stop cold turkey and you should be over the worst of it after 3 days. Withdrawals would probably be fairly minor too with such a low dose.

 

[RedRum OG]

You guys must be confusing hydrocodone maybe with hydromorphone? Or something. Hydrocodone is very slightly weaker. If both are taken orally I'd say 20mg oxy = 25mg hydrocodone, approximately

Also OP congrats, 12mg for a whole day is next to nothing. If you had some loperamide, benzos, and sleep meds you could probably jump of without noticing much at all. But if you tapered down to 10 like you plan, that's even easier of course. Good luck!

 

[thelastclubkid]

Hi all,

I have been reading the tapering threads now for about a month and have tapered down after using for about one year of about 100mg of Oxy per day and now am down to 12mg of Hydrocodone per day.

I have a day job now and need to work so I need to try and minimize the PAWS and would appreciate any feedback. Should I just keep tapering down to 1mg. My mind is obviously made up and I have no intentions of relapsing, just can't afford to do anything but quit completely.

On Thurs. I was at 15mg and then started 12mg on Friday and will be at 10mg this Wed., I usually make an adjustment every 4-5 days since I have to work and act normal. If I have to, I will take this down to 1mg per day because I need to work, but am wondering how this will end and what the good people of the forum might have to say? I have a three day holiday coming up so I will try to use that, but of course, come Tues. I will have to work. I have been going to the gym and exercising and eating healthy so, I do have a life, I'm just getting down to the end here and want to make the PAWS as minimal as possible?

yes congrats on your taper so far.... jumping from 12 mg hydrocodone will present some WD's but they will be mild and they will go fast because of hydrocodones short half-life... if you wish to ease the symptoms more just keep tapering though...

i just jumped from 2mg methadone which is about equivalent to 10mg hydrocodone because of the longer half life and tissue absorption and the WD's were annoying and uncomfortable but i only had one night where they were really bad... of course the difference is with methadone the whole WD lasts much longer than hydrocodone so yours would be easier...

 

[joeyfristco77]

Thanks good people of this forum, (thanks for the info Rhun) this place has saved my arse, big time. I will keep on trucking then and tapering down, and try to use my three days to my advantage and get the stuff that's mentioned.

Again I appreciate the feedback this is most helpful.

Can't wait till this taper is done and will let everyone know how it's going. I just try to wait when I'm off of work as long as possible till I can't stand the discomfort before I take 1mg of hydro to shut down the discomfort after work.

Right now I'm taking:
5mg at 7am just before work and breakfast at 8am
5mg about an hour before lunch 12pm and eat lunch at 1pm. Eating and lots of Emergen-C, about 2-3 a day, has been helpful. Like most people on opiates, I've lost a lot of weight. 30-35lbs. Yikes!

Then about quitting time at work I go till 5pm and then I start feeling pretty crappy and then I take 2mg, today and tomorrow it will be 1mg at 5pm and then 1mg at 6pm about an hour before dinner. I'll start taking .25mg of Xanax at 7pm as well when I get off of work. Then for sleep I have Trazadone from my doctor and Xanax. I will probably take another .5mg of Xanax and 50mg of Trazadone at 9pm. I've got myself on a sleep schedule every day, weekend and weekdays, it's all uniform, no changes, so that I can sleep. I know you're not really suppose to mix Trazadone and Xanax but I have to say, at my age late (30's) it has been OK and I have been getting about 9 hours of sleep a night between the two. The Trazadone is also an anitdepressant so I will probably take that for a while after I'm done with the taper.

I hope this helps someone else who is in the same boat that I am in, where you have to perform/work, while you're tapering down. I don't need another habit true and from reading I know that I need to be very careful with the Xanax. Fortunately, I have just picked up a large supply of it for my taper and then will taper down off the Xanax since I know I will have to take it for a few weeks. It is what it is I guess but the Xanax truly is like everyone says, very helpful, just have to be careful and realize that you will have to taper down off of that, but if I only take it at night, it won't be as intrusive during my work hours as the opiate taper could potentially be. I think the Xanax also prevents the weird dreams that some people have on Trazadone as I sleep good thus far.

I got very lucky, after I started working, a switch went off and I hate my addiction to opiates and I can't wait to have my life back! Once I'm off, I will not look back!

I will let everyone know how it's going if anyone is interested?

J

 

[rhun]

^ To the posts above, yes I know 10x is not correct. That's why I corrected myself the next post.
I was just sleepy and for some reason couldn't recall the difference in strengths between oxy and hydro.
Personally though I read all the posts in a thread before commenting.. for that reason.

OP, glad some of the info I provided helped you. Sadly, I've been there.. I was on a very high amount of Oxycontin for over a year.
I kept it to 80mg of the OPs during the work week but I would binge on the 30 OCs all weekend plus the 200mg Morphines 3x a week.
My "taper" sucked. I split my 80mg daily dose in half and stayed on 40mg and cut out all the other opiates. That wasn't too bad.
A few weeks later I went on vacation from work and didn't even taper, just went straight cold turkey. I had benzos for the first 2 days only...
It was hell. But like I said in my other post, it's the PAWs that always get to me, they just never go away. I made it 3 months clean before relapsing.
Started doing the morphines again then went straight to an IV heroin habit due to tolerance. 3 months later I was broke and in debt so I started MMT.

Definitely keep us posted! I for one want to know how it goes. I think you have a solid taper plan in place and you are very lucky to have Xanax and Trazadone, that should really help. Definitely be careful not to pick up another addiction, but you seem aware of the risks. Pick up some of the other things on my list, they will really help you feel more energized and just better throughout the process.

PM if you have questions or need anything

 

[joeyfristco77]

Down to 11mg and tomorrow will be 10mg. So far I'm doing it with Xanax and the Trazadone and got about 8 hours of sleep last night and am working and feel fine today. Still eating regular breakfast lunch and dinner, drinking lots of emergen-C and water. I will post an update each time I drop down.

5mg of hydro at 7am eat breakfast at 8am
5mg of hydro at 8am eat breakfast at 12Noon
1mg of hydro at 5pm eat dinner at 7pm
.25mg of Xanax at 5pm after I get off work.
.50mg of Xanax at 7pm
50-75mg of Trazadone at 9pm
Sleep from 9:45-10pm to 5:30-6am

Just keep doing it over and over going to work and I feel fine. Keeping busy and eating regularly and drinking lots of water and the Emergen-c is working.

For whatever reason, if I try to go cold turkey, I lose my energy like a mofo. Even at this low dose. I guess because I have been taking it for such a long time (well, a long time for me, since Feb. ).

 

[joeyfristco77]

Today my goal was 10mg but I'm down to 8.5mgs
-5mg of hydro at 7am eat breakfast at 8am
-2.5mg of hydro at 12N eat healthy lunch at 1pm (man was I starving since I've been more active and working)
-1mg of hydro at 5pm and .25mg of Xanax at 6:30pm
Eating dinner at 7:30pm
Libido has pretty much returned as well.
At 8pm, I plan to take .50 - .75mg of Xanax
At 9pm 75mg of Trazadone

The only time I've really ever had "any" discomfort at all is when I needed a little Immodium here and there and got a little stomach cramping now I have a bunch of Ibruprofen with me just in case if I get aches and of course always carry immodium and xanax for anxiety if it creeps up on me.

All day long I make sure I drink plenty of water and the Emergen-C stuff and I've had zero withdrawals. Only time I felt crappy is when I let things go as long as I could just to see how long I could go before I felt like I wasn't normal (of course no one would be around me at work) and I would be on a solo project away from everyone. Eventually I would start to feel a little anxious and and I'd feel like I need to have sex since the libido has returned and with the exercise and working I'm hungry now most of the time like I normally would be if not taking any opiates. This may sound crazy, but pleasuring yourself is a great release when you're tapering down. The hormones start coming back and it takes a lot of stress off. When I get home if feeling that libido kicking in, luckily I have an awesome partner and she would take care of me, sex is a good outlet as your libido returns. This is a great thing to have someone else to help with a back massage and neck rubs are also very helpful. I just don't think about the stupid drugs that I've been chained to and concentrate on what I need to the pills aren't in my future. Keep so busy that time just flies by and I don't have time to get high.

I will keep this schedule through Friday and Sat. I will go with:
2.5 mg. at 7am
2.5 mg at 12N
1mg at 5pm

See how I feel and take the Xanax and Trazadone and eat my meals and exercise at the same times as previously mentioned.
I will keep this going through to Monday.

On Tues day I plan to go with:
2.5mg at 7am
1mg at 12N
1mg at 5pm and do this for three more days.

Just keep cutting down as much as I can with at least 1-2mg tapers every three days now.

I'll keep posting the results.

Now I know that you really can taper down off of most any drugs and return back to normal without feeling a lot of discomfort. I just don't know how some people can go from getting so high of stuff like Dillies and H and then go gold turkey. That's just not for me... I took the drugs to feel good and I have no intentions of even feeling remotely discomfortable if I don't have to . F that entire picture, that's just pure evil pain that I won't no business with.

Here's how my entire schedule went, I probably carried it on longer than I'd needed to.
100mg of Roxies blues 3pills and 1/3 of a 4th orally for four days (this was my tapering party so to speak). Then down to 90mg, is was not about getting high anymore but just taking enough to feel normal.
90mg for 4 days
80 mg for 5 days
70mg for 5 days
60mg for 4 days
50mg 2 days
40mg 3 days
30 mg for 5 days
25 mg for 5 days
20mg for 8 days
15mg for 4 days
12mg for 4 days
11mg for 1 day
8.5mg for 3 days

I'll keep everyone updated come Sat. and I'm down to :
2.5mg @ 7am
2.5mg @ 12N
1mg @5pm

So, yes, I just stocked up as I figured out my doses and got everything I needed to taper down, cut up the pills, lots of work cutting pills people. I went through 2-3 cutters and a few utility razors, got my little plastic baggies and put the dates and doses on each baggie with the dates, e.g., 10th, 11th, 12th for each day of the month. I can't believe that I actually have that extra pill in my bag for today's dosage and I have no desire to take it. Just looking forward to being done.

I am also continuing to take the Xanax and Trazadone at the same time everyday. These two have both made my tapering efforts easier, no doubt about it.

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

7.5mg of oxy = 10mg of hydro approx.

 

[smokemctoke420]

^ I agree. When I dose norco I take 20 mgs and when I dose oxy I take 15. If I want a good nod I up each by 5

 

[hefe1313]

good luck Joey, it sounds like you'll be fine. looks like you're almost out of the woods

 

[joeyfristco77]

Today I went down to 6mgs of Hydro and am off work and took .25mg of Xanax. Feel fine. I guess I am ahead of schedule because I want off of this shit so much.

Same schedule with food and sleep and more of the Xanax tonight and Trazadone to knock me out. I was walking down the street when I got off work and that's usually when I'd take a dose but I didn't need it and a big smile was on my face. Sorry for all the type-o's, I type really fast and I tend to make a lot of mistakes.

Tomorrow I'm going with:

2.5mg 7am
2.5mg 12N


If after lunch I start feeling the anxiety, I will just deal and get ready for the three day weekend and take .25mg of Xanax since I will be working solo and not driving or anything.

Sat. I will take 2.5mg at 7am and then just deal with it. It will be interesting to see where I am on Monday afternoon-evening and see how well I hold up.

Cheers,

J

 

[too_legit]

Mr Joey, I was in your shoes last spring.

After a 4 year Hydro binge, or more like self medicating to combat some very mild (and probably psychosomatic) social anxiety, shyness (I hate benzos), I finally had to quit because of financial reasons. $700/month was getting too much. Plus I didn't wanna withdaw in jail, if I would have got caught with 20 norcos in my car... When I started it was 10-30mg/day and 4 years later I was still only at 60mg/day (maybe 80-100mg/day on weekends or high pressure client meeting situations, bs..), albeit it was just to maintain, maybe very slight euphoria in the morning, and feeling normal throughout the day.

Anyways, I did same as you, tapered it down to 20-30, then switched immediately to kratom for one week. BTW, kratom high is 95% identical to hydro high. In my case, 1 rounded tea spoon (4 to 5 grams) was equivelant to a 10mg norco or lortab. Did kratom for a week, 3 rounded spoon fulls per day, tapering down to 3 flat spoons and so on, then quit cold tuckey.

I went to the pharm and picked up a box of lopermide, took about 4 or 8 pills of that per day along with a couple of spoons of laxatives to combat the effects of lopermide, you know, so my lower intestine wouldn't explode from not taking a shizz for 5 days, lol. With the lopes the physical withdraws were actually VERY minimal. Some minor aches and insomnia, which I took NyQuil for. After about a week of being off kratom and 2 weeks of being off hydro, all the physical w/d were gone.

I do not want to scare you because I do wish for you to quit as well, but after the physical w/d was gone, the real torture came on. The headfucks... Maybe it because I was on hydros for 4 years, but man, for the next month my mind was a mess. I had HORRIBLE anxiety, not social but just general, like randomly would get panic attacks, I never had a panic attach in my life up untill that moment. Also, the "haze", I dont know how to describe it but the lack of mood... You could toss me the keys to a ferrari and say have a rip with it the whole day and I'de fell like mehhhh... nothing would excite me. I could not get ANY work done, I would stare are the computer screen at work staring blankly at the screen but for the life of me I couldnt motivate myself to actually think and get work done.

This lasted about 45 days or so before I started feeling "happy" on my own. Then slowly and surely about 3 months after I quit I was back to 85% me, pre-hydro.

Now, 9 months sober, i think I'm 100% there mentally.

This was my experience, since you only messed with it for a year it will probably be easier for you, also you might be a stronger minded person that I am, so best of luck!

Oh yeah, do not take too many benzos!!! I made the mistake of doing that in the begining to combat the anxiety, only to have it come back 2x as bad the next day because of it.

 

[joeyfristco77]

Thanks toolegit, I appreciate you sharing, all the subtle to big mentions adds up and it helps, cause ya, the anxiety is horrible. I experienced that a time or two.

Today I made it with :

2.5mg at 7am
1mg at 12N
1mg at 4pm


So... made it with 4.5mgs.

That's the part that I am most concerned with, the mind-games and anxiety! Again, I appreciate your comments and anyone else that would like to share.

J

 

[RedRum OG]

^ wow congratulations

Those doses are basically nothing man. From now on you could eat placebos and not notice a difference honestly

Even a 90lb person with no tolerance wouldn't feel even slightly different from 1mg of hydrocodone lol

 

[Choosing_Positive]

You could jump from 4.5mg's of hydrocodone to 0 no prob, I think the smallest hydro's they generally prescribe are 5/500 (at least to adults). So make the jump or go at ~2mg's for 3 days then jump to zero. Yes, the more you mess with you dose and think about it and can actually feel the difference of 1 mg of hydro, then you're ready to just put it down and move on. Go to the Thomas recipe and use it or another WD method if needed. You shouldn't even need it though, it is for severe opiate withdrawal. Once you start with the benzo's it's a slippery slope between quitting and trading for another DOC.

Good luck and may Ja be with you!

 

[RaceHorse]

Rhun is right. Oxy is much stronger to most people then hydro, so congrats on making the big step of going down from 100mg of oxy to 12mg of hydro. If tapering is working then keep at it until recommended dosage is reached for whatever you have the script for. If you plan on not using any at all then, i'd suggest cold turkey, 12mg is low enough to where you'd have minimal WD symptoms besides cravings, which is all in the mind.