taking suboxone to kick heroin

[FBMguy]

New to the forum thing. Okay so heres the scoop. SWIM is trying to come off about a six month long heavy heroin kick. SWIM is doing about 15 bags a day at about 5 bags a shot. a friend of SWIM provided him with three suboxone strips. my question is if SWIM were to wait approximately 24 hours (as to not go into precipitated withdrawal) and took 4 mg (half a strip), and felt some relief but after a few hours started to feel sick again would it be too soon to take another 4 mg? is it possible to take too much suboxone? Is a there a time frame that should be followed between doses or can SWIM just keep taking the sub little by little until he feels better?

 

[alovesupreme]

i mean, if you took 4 mg and felt fine, you could take more later and it's not going to hurt you or anything. but a lot of folks don't realize how strong sub is, even with your kind of habit, you might not need to take the second 4 mg... save it for tomorrow... make your stash last longer. just find the lowest dose of sub that makes you feel well (be patient it takes a few hours to fully kick in), repeat every 24 hours if you can (or split the dose and do every 12) and work your daily dose down by half every two or three days, for about a week, then jump, that should give you a quick detox through basically all of the acute dope WDs with as little risk as possible for getting physically hooked on the sub.

 

[Crashing]

It's easy to feel like being not-high is being sick, but try to seriously evaluate your symptoms. I don't even think 8mg pills are a necessary preparation. I've heard of folks in insisting that they've needed 16mgs + but i used to shoot 4-5 5 noreast coast glassine shots per day for at least 4x as long as you did and I never needed over 4mg personally.

 

[axeman14]

Do you feel the subs kick in, getting a sort of high? Or is it generally just a sense of relief and curb of cravings? I realize the answer to this is probably dose and user dependent. Just trying to get a general feel.

 

[alovesupreme]

if you have a small enough habit (trying to taper down your dope intake before making the jump is really worthwhile), wait long enough before switching to subs and try to keep your sub dose low (maximize norbuprenorphine, minimize blockade effect) you can definitely feel a little bit of a high out of them for the first five or six days you start taking them. if you're jumping straight from a heavier type of habit, it's more just relief, but feeling well vs feeling sick can be nice all on its own. ymmv, of course.

 

[RTrain]

My biggest suggestion to you is do not expect the suboxone to be a miracle and make you completely cured. It will make the withdrawals tolerable until the acute phase of w/d wears off, then you will just feel normal on Subs. The best reason to wait until in full blown w/d, IMO, is you will be able to tell the drastic difference form full blown heroin w/d to being on Subs while in H w/d. Obviously you don't want precipitated w/d's either, but the other issue is if you take it before you are really sick and dying, you won't get as much relief. Also start low, like 2 mg (I am sure you will need more, but who knows its possible you won't) and then add 1 mg every 2 hours until you feel satisfied with the relief. You have a small amount and want to make it work, so it is imperative to use as little as possible to succeed. If you take all 24 mg's in 24 hours they will wear off before long and you will be doing H again. Honestly, you really should consider seeing a Dr or getting more of those things, because you have a big habit and its going to be tough to stabilize and then wean off Subs with that habit.

But if not an option, in your case I would want to get through the first 3-4 days using only 2 of those strips. You can drastically reduce your dose at 2 points, 1 is once you have stabilized, that is after the 1st day when you do the induction. Lets say it takes you 6 mg to feel better, that was 6 from 0 in your system. Every other time after that you will need less because worth Subs long half life you have a good amount still in your system. Then there is the point where you are no longer in acute heroin w/d, after 4-5 days from last heroin use, at this point you should be able to drop your dose a good amount. So you would want to follow a system like this, day 1 6 mg, day 2 3mg, day 3 3 mg, day 4 3 mg, day 5 2 mg, day 6 1.5 mg, day 7 1.25mg, day 8 1 mg, day 9 1 mg, day 10 .75 mg, day 11 .5 mg, day 12 .5mg and jump This is quite a rapid taper and its assuming you can stabilize on a 6 mg initial dose. I honestly think even just having 1 or 2 more Sub strips in this situation makes it much easier. With 2 more you can start with a full 8 or 10 mg and you can make the wean a longer process which is more likely to work.

Also with your small amount you might consider some of the methods for potentiating, UTFSE and you will find plenty of info on that, whether it be the alcohol trick or different ROAs to improve bioavailability. Just factor in when you do it that way you are in essence doing more. So adjust a tapering schedule as necessary with the adjusted BAs.

 

[axeman14]

you can definitely feel a little bit of a high out of them for the first five or six days you start taking them. if you're jumping straight from a heavier type of habit, it's more just relief, but feeling well vs feeling sick can be nice all on its own. ymmv, of course.

Thanks a bunch, alovesupreme! Appreciate the response.

 

[FBMguy]

My biggest suggestion to you is do not expect the suboxone to be a miracle and make you completely cured. It will make the withdrawals tolerable until the acute phase of w/d wears off, then you will just feel normal on Subs. The best reason to wait until in full blown w/d, IMO, is you will be able to tell the drastic difference form full blown heroin w/d to being on Subs while in H w/d. Obviously you don't want precipitated w/d's either, but the other issue is if you take it before you are really sick and dying, you won't get as much relief. Also start low, like 2 mg (I am sure you will need more, but who knows its possible you won't) and then add 1 mg every 2 hours until you feel satisfied with the relief. You have a small amount and want to make it work, so it is imperative to use as little as possible to succeed. If you take all 24 mg's in 24 hours they will wear off before long and you will be doing H again. Honestly, you really should consider seeing a Dr or getting more of those things, because you have a big habit and its going to be tough to stabilize and then wean off Subs with that habit.

But if not an option, in your case I would want to get through the first 3-4 days using only 2 of those strips. You can drastically reduce your dose at 2 points, 1 is once you have stabilized, that is after the 1st day when you do the induction. Lets say it takes you 6 mg to feel better, that was 6 from 0 in your system. Every other time after that you will need less because worth Subs long half life you have a good amount still in your system. Then there is the point where you are no longer in acute heroin w/d, after 4-5 days from last heroin use, at this point you should be able to drop your dose a good amount. So you would want to follow a system like this, day 1 6 mg, day 2 3mg, day 3 3 mg, day 4 3 mg, day 5 2 mg, day 6 1.5 mg, day 7 1.25mg, day 8 1 mg, day 9 1 mg, day 10 .75 mg, day 11 .5 mg, day 12 .5mg and jump This is quite a rapid taper and its assuming you can stabilize on a 6 mg initial dose. I honestly think even just having 1 or 2 more Sub strips in this situation makes it much easier. With 2 more you can start with a full 8 or 10 mg and you can make the wean a longer process which is more likely to work.

Also with your small amount you might consider some of the methods for potentiating, UTFSE and you will find plenty of info on that, whether it be the alcohol trick or different ROAs to improve bioavailability. Just factor in when you do it that way you are in essence doing more. So adjust a tapering schedule as necessary with the adjusted BAs.

thank you so much. this is fantastic information and i am definitely going to give it a try. i originally posted this yesterday with hopes of beginning the suboxone today, but i ended up getting another fix of h today. now that i have recieved some help and information i feel much better about beginning the suboxone. thank you so much for your response

 

[opiatekrzy]

i dont care of big of a heroin habit someone has, bupe is very potent and will kill physical WD's for the most hardcore junkies..