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Opioids Taking methadone for recreation while on Suboxone

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RTrain

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
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1,935
Location
NE USA
Ok.... If I am taking 2 mg of Sub a day. taken split 1 mg 2x day(stable for about 2 months on it), how much methadone would I need to give me a good high? I got like 60 mg on hand. I figure I should feel 20 mg but not sure if its enough to get me a good high, which is the goal here. And yes, I waited long enough for the Sub to wear off. Ive done this numerous times with other full agonists, but I have never even done methadone before so it makes the situation a bit more complicated. Also I know these 2 drugs are very unpredictable in their effects on people, but just a general idea would be nice.

For HR sake I want to take it easy and not do too much, but also don't want to waste a couple 'done tabs and not get a good high.

edit: well I took 20 mg and its been 3 hours, I feel pretty good but I am not nodding or anything. I'd say I am happy, maybe 5 mg more, but not sure if its just gonna be a waste.
 
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I also surprisingly have never taken methadone in recreational doses (some guy who was on the pills for pain gave me 10mg over the summer when I told him I was starting to feel shitty) and always wondered how much I should dose. Not sure how long "waiting long enough" since your last bupe dose is, but I probably would have started around 40mg possibly slightly more.
 
OP.. why are you on Suboxone to get off opiates if you still are seeking a high?
Suboxone drs have a limit on how many patients they can take, if you still wanna get a buzz or high, get off the bupe.
Let someone who really wants to be clean a chance to get that opportunity.
I understand sometimes you get the urge to do it, i get it completely.. i was on bupe for 2 1/2 years.
You gotta fight those urges and cravings and be clean.
You know it is the right thing to do.. if you dont than i don't see how anyone can help.

Go ahead take 40mg and flush or give the rest to someone else so its gone and then you can't keep hurting your "cleanliness" by still using while trying to get off the very thing you're abusing.

-HOOD

(this is a harm reduction forum right? sorry if i come off as an asshole but im only trying to help you.)


BTW: when i was first addicted to opiates, 40mg of 'done would get me as high as blowing an 80mg OC)
 
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^ pretty sure RTrain has been taking buprenorphine exclusively for months so I don't think wanting to take done one time really justifies telling him to give up his place with a Suboxone doctor.

I understand where your coming from, but he's just a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of people that get on Suboxone with no intention of stopping opiates for good. It can add stability into ones life which eventually can lead to abstinence.
 
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^Rtrain, I'm surprised a seasoned vet like yourself is asking this...No! Bad idea! Just switch to methadone if you don't like bupe and you're gonna be on maintenance anyway...
 
^Rtrain, I'm surprised a seasoned vet like yourself is asking this...No! Bad idea! Just switch to methadone if you don't like bupe and you're gonna be on maintenance anyway...

I spent almost two years on buprenorphine. For the second I chipped throughout. C/T'd the buprenorphine after that and got clean for maybe two months. Relapsed and shortly after got my ass on maintenance/a MMT program. Best decision I could have made, it works much, much better for me than Suboxone or Subutex ever did. On the methadone I'm on a practical dose (60mg) so it doesn't really fuck me up at all, but it does still give me that recognizable opioid buzz in a way buprenorphine never can. I have ZERO desire to chip or use any other opioid, which is totally different from my time on buprenorphine.

Ok.... If I am taking 2 mg of Sub a day. taken split 1 mg 2x day(stable for about 2 months on it), how much methadone would I need to give me a good high? I got like 60 mg on hand. I figure I should feel 20 mg but not sure if its enough to get me a good high, which is the goal here. And yes, I waited long enough for the Sub to wear off. Ive done this numerous times with other full agonists, but I have never even done methadone before so it makes the situation a bit more complicated. Also I know these 2 drugs are very unpredictable in their effects on people, but just a general idea would be nice.

For HR sake I want to take it easy and not do too much, but also don't want to waste a couple 'done tabs and not get a good high.

edit: well I took 20 mg and its been 3 hours, I feel pretty good but I am not nodding or anything. I'd say I am happy, maybe 5 mg more, but not sure if its just gonna be a waste.

I feel rather strange answering the OP's questions, as methadone is a very powerful opioid and can easily cause an OD if the user is not well informed and very careful about its use. That said, when I was on buprenorphine I did chip on heroin quite a few times, and heroin certainly isn't necessarily any safer (well, smoked, maybe).

For the reason, for reasons noted below, adding 5mg more of methadone to your dose after taking 20mg three hours earlier will make little if any detectable different, as it won't give you any recognizable effect for at least another one to four hours, after the first dose of methadone has begun wearing off.

Anywho, what was your opioid use like before you got on Suboxone OP? What was your tolerance like back then? Since you've only been on Suboxone for two months and you're at a reasonable/lower dose than the normally over-prescribed dosages of 8mg or >8mg, it will be a bit easier to use your methadone recreationally.

The best way to do it would be to not use Suboxone for at least one day before you try the methadone. Better yet, wait until you begin to feel the buprenorphine withdrawals, then take your pre-planned dose of methadone.

As you mentioned in your post, 20mg of methadone is I think both safe and a reasonable jumping off point. It should give you something of a buzz. The more you increase that dose of methadone, the more it'll be possible for you to get your desired full agonist opioid high. However, at the same time, the chance of overdosing also increases as you raise the dose - especially if you raise it in large increments (e.g. going from trying 20mg to 60mg of methadone is a bad and potentially deadly idea).

Be careful. You tried that 20mg. Cool. Wait a bit, say like a week before trying again. Next time, after giving yourself a minimum of 24 hours since you last took any Suboxone, try taking 30-40mg of methadone. I highly suggest you keep the dose increases low, like only increase your dose by 10mg each time until you have found your ideal dose. Based on how you feel at 30-40mg you'll know if you'll need 40-50mg next time to get where you want.

Frankly I don't think you'll need to go higher than 40-50mg. If you do, do yourself a favor and don't go above 60mg. Only do that if you've already tried all the lower doses first, starting with the lowest dose possible and slowly working your way up. Make sure you take break where you just take your regular Suboxone between your methadone excursions. Always take at least a 24 hour break off Suboxone before you take any methadone.

Now, if you aren't willing to even wait 24 hours since your last dose of Suboxone and want to take your methadone on the same day as your Suboxone to try and get high, it'll be much, MUCH trickier and more difficult to be able to safely get high off your methadone under these conditions. You'd need to take a higher, trickier dose of the methadone to make it effective with Suboxone freshly in your system. That will unfortunately increase the possibility that you'll take too 'done much and OD. You can't get around this. Just like trying to break through with heroin or other potent full agonists. Only thing that would help you here is to also experiment and slowly taper up your dose of methadone over a number of trial days, similar to what you'd do with my previous, safer set of instructions.You'll end up needing a lot more methadone for this though, in order to safely gauge the amount necessary without killing yourself I mean. Cause you can't enjoy the buzz if you're dead... :\

And always remember the following: Methadone takes one to two hours to kick in. If you're in deep withdrawal some feel it's first effects at around the 45min mark. It takes about four hours to peak and begin to plateau. DO NOT take more methadone during this 0-4hr period to try and get higher, because there is nothing remotely safe that will get the methadone to hit you sooner or stronger. Making this mistake, redosing with more during the come-up period, has led to a lot of methadone overdoses.

Also it should be noted that you should not combine benzos, alcohol or other CNS Depressants (e.g. barbs) when you take your methadone. Again, it's a recipe for an overdose. Many have died from making that mistake as well, especially at higher dosages.

Good luck, have fun and, above all else, please be safe.
 
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I used to take methadone recreationally when RXed Suboxone. The next morning I would take methadone and get high off 50-60 gas, pretty good nod.
 
I learned to appreciate how Suboxone makes my life stable over time. At the very beginning of maintenance I was still opioid-seeking, but after a severe withdrawal from methadone prior to the program I felt worn out and I strongly associated it with opioid use, so I mostly tried to get chilled out simply with Suboxone. I still have periods of time when I feel like taking a full agonist, usually it's a few weeks and I sometimes ran out of Suboxone before collecting another pack, but then it's over and I don't need a full agonist. I find the blockade it causes, which is frustrating at times, to be very useful, because when I get the urge to take a full agonist, there's enough time to think it through.

In my opinion maintenance on methadone is a completely different thing from being on buprenorphine, and what I see at the program confirms it. I haven't met a single Suboxone patient other than me during my maintenance (over 1.5 year), it's also because there are only around 10 patients on it as opposed to over 200 patients on methadone, but most of methadone patients I've met aren't on methadone to quit opioids or quit drugs at all and they don't consider changing their lifestyle. However, I also know people who do want to change their lifestyle, but buprenorphine doesn't cut it for them, because their tolerance was simply too high before joining the program. I think dihydroetorphine or some similar orvinol being a full agonist should be an option for such people in the Western world, I've seen too many people with their life still ruined because of methadone. It's possible to lower tolerance before stabilizing on maintenance, but in practice this is impossible with short-acting full agonists. My tolerance to opioids varied over the years, it was quite high in the past, and I think it was one of the reasons why buprenorphine failed me when I tried it myself for the first time. I used methadone for over 2 years and it's a very dull feeling compared to buprenorphine, after a couple of months on maintenance I realized that my eyes were just as empty during that time as the eyes of methadone patients are. I don't condemn methadone, but let's just face some facts about it...

RTrain, I wish you luck on buprenorphine and I hope it'll soon work out for you as it did for me.
 
If you're going to get high while on suboxone.. why would you do methadone instead of something more recreational? Also, the long-half life could easily end up making the transition back onto bupe really rough.

Just doesn't seem like a good idea for a lot of reasons.
 
OP.. why are you on Suboxone to get off opiates if you still are seeking a high?
Suboxone drs have a limit on how many patients they can take, if you still wanna get a buzz or high, get off the bupe.
Let someone who really wants to be clean a chance to get that opportunity.
I understand sometimes you get the urge to do it, i get it completely.. i was on bupe for 2 1/2 years.
You gotta fight those urges and cravings and be clean.
You know it is the right thing to do.. if you dont than i don't see how anyone can help.

Go ahead take 40mg and flush or give the rest to someone else so its gone and then you can't keep hurting your "cleanliness" by still using while trying to get off the very thing you're abusing.

-HOOD

(this is a harm reduction forum right? sorry if i come off as an asshole but im only trying to help you.)


BTW: when i was first addicted to opiates, 40mg of 'done would get me as high as blowing an 80mg OC)

I don't consdier myself clean on suboxone, no more clean than if I was using Methadone for maintenance. Also, its not my fault the system works to only allow doctors to treat so many patients with Suboxone. Don't push that guilt trip on me. I won't get into my full story, but I am by no means preventing some poor soul from being prescribed Suboxone. And your theory is if I want to on a rare occasion get high on a full agonist just once while still maintaining a normal life from the suboxone, then I don't deserve to be prescribed suboxone at all? That is absurd, its that aspect of recovery that fucks over people who are trying hard and might slip up once or twice, the overly judgmental mentality that so many ex-unkies develop is nauseating. I can't even deal with it....why am I am even ackowledging this post?

And this isn't really harm reduction, if you want yo harp on this stuff then to sober living forum and post about this stuff there. Here is a place to get answers about how to use drugs properly, i.e. in a safe manner. I don't come to OD to be lectured about my drug use,

^Rtrain, I'm surprised a seasoned vet like yourself is asking this...No! Bad idea! Just switch to methadone if you don't like bupe and you're gonna be on maintenance anyway...

No I like the bupe, I am fine with it. I was just looking for a change of pace for a day. I had the chance to grab some for what seemed like a fair price, so said wtf not.

In the end I took 25 mg(20 at first and 5 more about and 90 minutes later , I got a decent high for about 6 hours and then it tailed of and I just felt chill for the rest of the evening and night. Went back to the bupe the next day with no problem. My metabolism is pretty crazy, I was needing my Sub the next morning for sure. I don't think adding the 5 mg did much of anything. Maybe prolonged it a slight bit, bit was more of a waste in my opinion. From w
hat I've read and my minimal experience, redosing won't do much unless you wait for the effects to wear off. Similar to Bupe, I suppose.

If you're going to get high while on suboxone.. why would you do methadone instead of something more recreational? Also, the long-half life could easily end up making the transition back onto bupe really rough.

Just doesn't seem like a good idea for a lot of reasons.

Well 'done is a drug they don't hair test for, so in case I get randomly tested at my new job (still not sure if they do), then it could only show in urine which'll be out within a week. They do hair test for oxycodone, hydrocodone,, hydromorphone morphine, 6-MAM, and codeine (they don't list oxymorphone, but its a metabolite of oxycodone, so it could be included) in the hair, in case anyone was wondering. So I would of course treat myself to those if I wasn't hesitant to know if they do randoms. My buddy tells me they don't, but I want a more definitive answer.

Also, even though its not hair tested, methadone is urine tested on a 10 panel. So I wouuld fail for that and its one of those deals where having a valid script might not mean shit to the emplyerl
 
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I learned to appreciate how Suboxone makes my life stable over time. At the very beginning of maintenance I was still opioid-seeking, but after a severe withdrawal from methadone prior to the program I felt worn out and I strongly associated it with opioid use, so I mostly tried to get chilled out simply with Suboxone. I still have periods of time when I feel like taking a full agonist, usually it's a few weeks and I sometimes ran out of Suboxone before collecting another pack, but then it's over and I don't need a full agonist. I find the blockade it causes, which is frustrating at times, to be very useful, because when I get the urge to take a full agonist, there's enough time to think it through.

In my opinion maintenance on methadone is a completely different thing from being on buprenorphine, and what I see at the program confirms it. I haven't met a single Suboxone patient other than me during my maintenance (over 1.5 year), it's also because there are only around 10 patients on it as opposed to over 200 patients on methadone, but most of methadone patients I've met aren't on methadone to quit opioids or quit drugs at all and they don't consider changing their lifestyle. However, I also know people who do want to change their lifestyle, but buprenorphine doesn't cut it for them, because their tolerance was simply too high before joining the program. I think dihydroetorphine or some similar orvinol being a full agonist should be an option for such people in the Western world, I've seen too many people with their life still ruined because of methadone. It's possible to lower tolerance before stabilizing on maintenance, but in practice this is impossible with short-acting full agonists. My tolerance to opioids varied over the years, it was quite high in the past, and I think it was one of the reasons why buprenorphine failed me when I tried it myself for the first time. I used methadone for over 2 years and it's a very dull feeling compared to buprenorphine, after a couple of months on maintenance I realized that my eyes were just as empty during that time as the eyes of methadone patients are. I don't condemn methadone, but let's just face some facts about it...

RTrain, I wish you luck on buprenorphine and I hope it'll soon work out for you as it did for me.

Although I agree with you on a few points, we have very difference experiences of methadone and buprenorphine. "Facts" are somewhat relative in this game: We're all different, and drugs affect people differently on top of that. I agree that many methadone patients out there aren't interested in recovery as much as simply maintenance, but what is necessarily wrong with this? Not to mention that that IME seems to be more a product of one's clinic than the person or drug itself. The clinic, their requirements, staff, company, etc. etc. has a lot to do with whether or not their patients are focused on let alone open to or aware of recovery at all, especially when it comes to recovery while on methadone (given that so many people wrongly assume that they're mutually exclusive things, which couldn't be further from the truth...).
 
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