• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

Taking both L-Glutamine & GABA

Boiling in Acid said:
thanks SynAmnesia. so do you think there's any point in using l-glutamic acid, or taurine to increase GABA levels? or on the other hand is there's a point in adding b6 (or b complex) to GABA supplement to make it work better?
& what l-threonine is good for? also is magnesium effective in redusing anxiety?

thank you, i very appreciate your answers. & sorry for so many questions, if you could help it'll be highly appreciated!

Taking L-glutamic acid, also known as L-glutamate is pointless. As I mentioned earlier, glutamate is transported OUT of the brain by the acidic transport protein, and therefore, your oral glutamate will not cross the blood brain barrier rendering a waste of money.

However, I have just read a paper that said that oral L-glutamine increased plasma GABA levels in rats without significantly raising plasma glutamate levels. This is quite interesting considering the mechanism for transforming glutamine to GABA goes through a glutamate intermediate. Therefore, L-glutamine might be your best bet. Bear in mind that this study was done in rats, and rat brains don't always equal our brains. If they did, we would have many more effective drugs, and research would be a lot easier. Therefore, oral L-glutamine may increase glutamate levels in humans, which would do the exact opposite of what you wanted. However, it may also increase GABA at the same time. It all depends on the kinetics of the reactions. Furthermore, it may increase glutamate in some areas of the brain and GABA in other areas of the brain. Who knows. I don't think this has been studied in humans.

The paper mentioned above is:

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/4/1227

One of the best suggestions I could give you is to see a professional. See someone who can help you personally. There are many options for anxiety from drugs like buspar (which doesn't help everyone--but it helps some), to neurofeedback (which is highly recommended), to plain old meditation. CBT also works well. Don't just try to treat yourself, as often it doesn't work well, and you are just wasting money on supplements that are often expensive.

Also, please note that amino acid precursors and other things are potent chemicals. Although they aren't regulated--they are basically drugs. The reason that they aren't regulated is due to this random law passed by the FDA saying that any amino acids or biproducts of amino acids are "supplements" and do not need to be regulated unless they have posed a significant risk or were grandfathered in as a potential drug or drug on the market. Think about it--L-dopa is a hydroxylated form of tyrosine. If L-dopa wasn't regulated by the FDA, who knows what people would market it and use it for. People could advocate using it for improving memory, or who knows what else.... I guess L-dopa is a bit different due to the fact it bypasses the rate limiting enzyme, but still... Although you eat amino acids every day, you don't want to throw the concentrations completely out of whack by taking too much of one without doctors orders. As I stated before, increasing a concentration of one neutral amino acid in the blood, decreases the permiability of the other amino acids. However, if you want to try it, a few days probably wouldn't hurt you. If you start feeling more depressed due to low serotonin levels, stop. They should return back to normal. Also, note that dosage is important. Don't overdo it. Furthermore, make sure your supplements are from a good company, as many times supplements have random things in there that you don't want. (Back in the days there was a tryptophan supplement that caused problems due to a bad synthesis that gave oral tryptophan a bad name... It still is barely used to this day).

Although B vitamins may not help your anxiety--that is no reason not to take them. They are good for you anyway. It won't hurt you, as since it is water soluble, you will just excrete the excess.

I don't know about taurine for anxiety. I think it is a stimulant, and may work by inhibiting adenosine like caffeine. Therefore, It may have opposite effects from what you want. But I don't know. Someone else can probably help you on that.

Sorry if this explanation is a bit too simplistic for ADD. However, I thought Boiling In Acid might appreciate a full response.
 
^thank you very much man!

i went to professional (shrink) a while ago & he keeps throwing antidepressants on me which are useless\or making all worse... what i try to treat is social anxiety, & GABA is helping me alot, much more than all the anti-depressants (i tried fluoxetine, paroxetine, venlafaxine, mirtazapine & amitriptilyne, which are either worthless or making it worse), aslo i really badly dislike taking meds, something only about taking them makes me feeling even worse...
also things like valerian root or passiflora also don't do shit to me...
i interested in something GABA increasing, or something that potentiates the GABA supplement as tolerance builds (i aware of the fact that it is not so good to take much GABA, but it gotta be much better than using benzos or even meds.)
i am interested in something what's being to GABA what tyrosine is to dopamine. i think this thing is l-theanine, but it is not commercialized into israel... :( btw i tried l-phenylalanine, but discontinued it's use after 2 days, as it increased my anxiety, & also made me depressed. so i'm not interested in something dopamine increasing, as well as i don't like nothing serotonin acting, as something about increased serotonin feels super unnatural to me, & i tend to discontinue whatever it is very quickly.
what i clearly need is more GABA, after withdrawling a year - long recreational benzo habit cold turkey 8 months ago...
too bad there's no chance for me to get phenibut, or the l-theanine...

thank you for all your caring answers, i highly appreciate your help!
 
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Furthermore, GABA has no action outside the brain. Therefore, if it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, why are you taking it? To waste money?

Ham-milton: I would like some sources telling me that GABA doesn't cross the BBB (as my sources seem to say they do, just with a bit less affinity).

Well, you said two opposing statements there, so I think i'll ignore your obvious textbook recyclying. How dull ;)
 
^he said it has no action OUTSIDE the brain. & if it really doen't, so why do i feel slight anxiety relief from 750mg? i guess it does... poorly, but sure does.
 
Boiling in Acid said:
so it relaxes me, so it works! :)

i don't know how good it is compared to say phenibut, but it's difinately not a placebo...


The placebo effect is actually quite powerful. You would be how many placebos work. If placebos didn't work, in clinical trials you wouldn't need to compare the clinical effiency of a drug to a placebo, as there would never be any action with placebo. However, as can be seen in most clinical trials, improvement with placebo can be quite high. There was even that case on Oprah were this woman went on lauding the effects of propanolol to treat her PSTD, as while she was in the clinical trial her PTSD was cured. It turned out that when the blinds were lifted--she was part of the placebo group. She didn't even realize it.

The brain is quite gullible. It can function differently depending on what it is told.

However, if you believe it is working--good for you. (and I don't mean this in a sarcastic way) Anything that helps is a good thing. Placebo effect or non-placebo effect--all that is important is that you feel better. Furthermore, placebos sometimes have less unpleasant side effects, so they aren't all bad.

Also, you might want to try a different psychologist/psychiatrist. All are different and have different techniques. You need to find one that you connect with. A good therapist/psychiatrist can be worth their weight in gold, but if you don't connect or you have a problem with them--they are just a waste of time and money. You should try a few more--I am sure there is one out there that can help you.


P.S. I am female....I thought the a at the end of my name would be a give away, but I guess not.
 
^ at first when i started to take it i couldn't find any difference from an ativan pill, but with no side effects! i really sure it isn't 100% placebo.

yesterday i was at my psych's & he convinsed me to try sodium valproate, i'll see how it works...
 
do you really need to be on valproate...most MDs are drug pushers and have no clue...anyway, ...since you are on a forum with largely free thinkers I think you may find this a general cvonsiensus and just want you to at least be aware that MDs are not as all-knowing as they like to make themselves appear..
 
Boiling in Acid said:
i really sure it isn't 100% placebo.
A placebo effect is an effect you're always sure it is NOT placebo. That's the definition of placebo.....

-

You take GABA and get strong anxiety-relief, you have experiences with benzos, so you know what you're talking about; how can you say it is placebo or not??
 
SynAmensia--

why in the world would someone infer you were female as "Amnesia" is a common word and not gender biased at all and appears to be what it is...

just curious why you would even think that...anyway, not a slight, ...just an observation...anyway ...welcome
 
LuxEtVeritas said:
SynAmensia--

why in the world would someone infer you were female as "Amnesia" is a common word and not gender biased at all and appears to be what it is...

just curious why you would even think that...anyway, not a slight, ...just an observation...anyway ...welcome


Well, I am making a screen name, and I tend to think of names that end in "a" as feminine. I mean, how many guys do you know that have names that end in a? I am not saying the word itself has a gender bias--but when using it as an alias, it does sound feminine.

It could be because I learned spanish in high school. Words had gender, and most words that ended in "a" were female. I don't know.

Anyway, no offense taken. It isn't as if you guys know me or anything, and there weren't any other clues in my posts to tell you if I was male or female.
 
It is not as bad as the GUY who used the screen name Elektra with a heart next to it and then is surprised to be constantly mistaken for a female =D :\
 
jasoncrest said:
A placebo effect is an effect you're always sure it is NOT placebo. That's the definition of placebo.....

-

You take GABA and get strong anxiety-relief, you have experiences with benzos, so you know what you're talking about; how can you say it is placebo or not??

becouse iv'e got nothing even 5% of a relief like this from valerin root, i relatively anxiety free at a huge NA meeting, also it give (gave) me some speedy effects, & because it just gives me a push every time even though the tolerance kicked in now, is a proper answer?
 
i know exsactly who those shrinks are:), & i trust & believe this community much more...

he didn't diagnosted me with bipolar, but he's always convinsed that i need a mood stabilizer (to help with my anxiety).
i refuse antidepressants, & can't (& don't want) to get anything addictive, so he eventually did threw up the valproate at me...
now it helps really, maybe cuz it effects GABA, but i'm relly not happy with taking it, & the drug also feels not nice... too bad i can't get no phenibut, or one of those things...
 
Tolerance to phenibut builds too quickly for it to be used as a long term solution to anxiety. Also, I've heard several people report that after a while it just stops working and they feel no effects from it, even from doses as high as 15 grams, which is a huge dose.

I don't understand how you can't get l-theanine though, it's incredibly safe. I've been buying it for 5 years now in the US mostly online in bulk since it's cheaper but it's available in pretty much every nutrition store. I'm sure there has to be a European supplier that will ship to Israel.
 
i have no credit card, & all the online suppliers i found the shipping costs 4 times the price...

and for some reason it is not commercialized & don't exists at all here...
 
well, it's not commercialized anywhere- it's a pretty limited sort of thing. Unless you live in Russia, it's doubtful you'll find it anywhere that doesn't require a CC# and large shipping costs.

Shipping to Israel is going to cost mucho no matter what.
 
if your doc wil prescribe Tianeptine for those who it seems to work well for it is one of the best of the best (amazing mood elevation with little potential of unwanted sides)
 
this motherfucker is really against prescribing something i ask for... it one of those drs that pisses off when you ask for something that you think will be good... except maybe if i'll as an ssri (which i wont) maybe...

is mirtazapine works any good?
 
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