• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion

    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Tackling the big issues, Suicide.

Having read star's post, my views have changed slightly. I've never thought of it like that..

So now, my theory is, no one is selfish. Not the person committing the act, not the friends, not the family. Unless of course the friends or family didn't try to help.

I have tried so very hard to help depressed friends in the past (and present), if they were to go and commit suicide, I would be hurt if people thought of ME as selfish.

I don't think anyone is selfish..
 
Originally posted by Macksta
I am reminded of a certain jackass ex-bluelighter who used to be a moderator for The Dark Side, who used to openly advocate to people posting about their depression and suicidial thoughts that they should kill themselves if they really wanted to because it was the ultimate form of self empowerment and self determination. And it wasn't letting yourself be pushed around or told by other people what to do.

To this day I think the administrators of Bluelight were absolutely derelict in their duty and completely contrary to Bluelights harm minimisation message allowing him to continue to moderate after that sort of completely gobsmacking advice.


Not to rebuke your medical opinion or anything, but it has been a proven technique in the past.

When you're writing a suicide note (or expression your feelings through a suicidal inspired post) it can help.

Often in suicide notes a person will give "personal" messages to loved ones and that helps stop them.

Perhaps that was what the mod in question was trying to do?

Originally posted by Macksta

As Kazza has pointed out, suicide is a symptom of an inbalanced and unstable state of mind... depression. And depression can be treated, sometimes people just can't see a way out of the darkness and give up :(


Nope. there are other reasons people choose suicide besides mental. often they can be imposed on by society (like a gay guy not coming out of the closet because they wont feel accepted and dont know how to live being someone they are not.

Love, honour, medical reasons (ongoing terminal, physical pain)

many many more that depression doesnt directly relate to.

My personal opinion: its an individuals own choice if they want to end their life.
 
I lost my closest friend to suicide a year and a half ago, one of the most beautiful souls you could ever hope to know. While it hurt me so very deeply, it was the hurt of knowing that after 11 years of struggling with depression me nor any of her closest friends could make her life worth living for tomorrow. How could i see this act as selfish, the thought of knowing that after 11 years, countless therapists and differing anti depressants life still held nothing for her. The only way i could look at it was to be thankfull she no longer had to live a life full of such pain.:(
 
My grandpa committed suicide.. nearly 30 years ago now. He had given up his job to take care of his very sick wife, who then died, and he rarely saw his adult children. He actually attempted suicide once before, but his twin brother found him and stopped him. Nothing anyone said made him want to do it any less the second time though (and he made sure it was an instant thing, so no one could stop him).

I feel like this; it is extremely sad that my Dad and his siblings lost their father in this way (I never met him), but they had their own lives, spouses, careers, etc. and I feel like it would be selfish for them to want their dad to live in misery for the benefit of them seeing him once a fortnight or so. Wanting him to be desperately unhappy all those other days would be selfish.

I know my Dad doesn't resent his dad for what he did, or think that he loved them any less. I've read his suicide note and it's very clinical, no mucking about. He didn't sound sad or in two minds or as though he wasn't sure he was doing the right thing. It was just matter of fact, please do this and this at my funeral, I miss your mum too much. That sort of thing. When I read it, I understood that there would have been worse things for him and his family than his death. I guess.

In this case though, he was a 50-something widower who had retired and had nothing more to gain from being alive. If one of my immediate family members were to commit suicide, I would be absolutely beside myself with grief, and probably place a lot of the blame on myself for not being worth sticking around for, but ultimately I think I would have to be able to understand their motivation as being despair, and no one should have to live in despair.
 
Geez-A said:

All I will say is when I felt that low, I was doing everyone a favour by dying.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what my mum said when she told me... :eek: ... about how, devestated by a breakup and a bicycle accident which had left her face scarred, she nearly drove her car into a tree. I said "What??? How could you not think of us? How could you think we could possibly survive without you?"

She said: "I *was* thinking of you. I thought you'd be fine, that in fact you'd have a better life without me. You would get insurance money, and would not have to worry about me anymore." She said she could see that it's a completely twisted rationale now, but when you're in that state of mind it makes perfect sense. There's no selfish about it, it's just warped thinking.

I can't tell you how much my heart hurts when I relive the memory of her telling me of that incident :( My stomach just churns to think about losing her, after so many other tragedies...

I've lost two cousins and an ex-boyfriend to suicide. My ex-boyfriend left behind 4 little children under 10, leaving them with his ex-wife who is dying of breast cancer. Those kids meant EVERYTHING to him, I mean everything. He would have walked through fire for them.... he would never have done anything to hurt them.

In his rational mind he would have known how much his suicide would devestate and irrevocably change their lives.... that's how I know he wasn't in his right mind.

What an awful beast depression is.
 
KemicalBurn said:
[


Not to rebuke your medical opinion or anything, but it has been a proven technique in the past.

When you're writing a suicide note (or expression your feelings through a suicidal inspired post) it can help.

Often in suicide notes a person will give "personal" messages to loved ones and that helps stop them.

Perhaps that was what the mod in question was trying to do?

Originally posted by Macksta

As Kazza has pointed out, suicide is a symptom of an inbalanced and unstable state of mind... depression. And depression can be treated, sometimes people just can't see a way out of the darkness and give up :(


Nope. there are other reasons people choose suicide besides mental. often they can be imposed on by society (like a gay guy not coming out of the closet because they wont feel accepted and dont know how to live being someone they are not.

Love, honour, medical reasons (ongoing terminal, physical pain)

many many more that depression doesnt directly relate to.

My personal opinion: its an individuals own choice if they want to end their life. [/B]
Click to expand...

Sorry Im not sure what you're on about. But if someone posts in BL saying they're depressed and having suicidal thoughts, the last thing anyone including a mod should be doing is actively encouraging them or telling them it's okay if they want to do it. We're talking about a human life here, and especially when the mod doesn't even know the poster in question from a bar of soap... to suggest that they should feel ok about killing themselves is just wrong!

I also knew the mod in question quite well, and I discussed this with him. and his honest opinion was that if the person wanted to do it, they should... and people shouldn't try and interfere or stop them.

Of course there are many reasons people kill themselves, although love and honour are not ones that readily come to mind as being too relevant or indeed prevalent in a western society such as ours. Those who do so for medical reasons and euthenasia are a completely separate kettle of fish and not really what this thread has been about.

Certainly what I'm trying to get at is that many suicides are related to depression. And in those cases where they are then I don't believe it is 'okay' for a person to make the choice to end their lives, because depression is a psychiatric disorder and does not promote the making of rational decisions.
 
if you know the fucking agony and constant heartache that is embedded in those left behind, you will understand why some people think its selfish.

as i said, i'm in two minds about this.
but suicide is definately not something that is 'ok' and shows strength of character.
quite the opposite really, as it means they were unable to conquer the burdens in their life for whatever reason.

i cannot for the life of me understand why some of you are condoning this act.
 
Suicide is a choice. That choice will not always be accepted by others, but what choice is ever accepted by everyone? We must learn to accept the things we cannot change.

I agree, it's selfish, however, we cannot always stop an individual making there choice in life, should it be to end life, and thus, we must learn to accept it.

Each human has the right to choose and freedom, to make a decision and to live it, or die it. Who are you to tell a man, rational, or irrational, what his rights are? only he has the right to decide his fate, let that be life or death, and you, to him, are no one.

He doesnt care whom he leaves behind, he cares what ends it, or fulfills him.
 
suicide should not be accepted.
ever.
my feeling is that the people who commit this act don't actually want to do it, they simply want the shit to stop.
if they got help in dealing with their feelings, they wouldn't feel this way.
i don't believe anyone would willingly want to put their friends and family through such anguish. i.e. when they are making this choice, they are not thinking clearly.
 
I don't know if I actually do consider suicide a selfish act or not.. I know that it takes a lot of strength and courage to really decide to just give up on life. It takes a lot of different pressures in life to push those certain buttons and one day, all the wrong buttons get pushed or maybe some were already down and with the continous pushing, one snaps..

One is in a totally different state of mind when that point comes around. It resembles a person who has split personality, you might be actually realising what you're doing but at the same time, all you can do is watch yourself do things because another being has seem to taken over. It's probably an auto-reaction by the brain or the person might just not be able to control themselves to not go there.

Although it hurts all those that love that person, I do wonder, how would people feel if that person lived and continued suffering and as much as anyone tried to help, they couldnt do anything because in reality, the person in question has already given hope in anything ever working out.. Yes, in a lot of ways, its a selfish act but then if a person's already given up hope on himself, how hard would it be for them to go through life day by day?
 
dancefifi said:

Although it hurts all those that love that person, I do wonder, how would people feel if that person lived and continued suffering and as much as anyone tried to help, they couldnt do anything because in reality, the person in question has already given hope in anything ever working out.. Yes, in a lot of ways, its a selfish act but then if a person's already given up hope on himself, how hard would it be for them to go through life day by day?
Click to expand...

they've given up hope because they either haven't yet found a reason to live, or they suffer from a mental illness.
it may take a fucking long time for someone to overcome mental illness but it can be done.
for others, they need a catalyst for change, i.e. some sort of 'wake up call' to make them re-evaluate how they see themselves and their place in the world.
how and when this wake up call comes is undetermined, but it does come.

i for one could not say to someone "i know you feel worthless, so end it now so you're no longer in pain". that in my opinion is giving up on the person.
 
kazza_baby said:
it may take a fucking long time for someone to overcome mental illness but it can be done.
Click to expand...

Indeed it can! I am a prime example of that =D
Suicide is never the only option- whether people believe it or not.
 
wow, i've seen this argument done before many different times, and i'm really surprised to see that everyone thinks that suicide is 'okay' (within context, of course).

just that i think suicide should be a decision that's made by the person doing it. obviously in most cases that's redundant anyway, as there are few times when it can be physically prevented. but i honestly don't think it's a weak decision, or selfish, or anything like that.

i can understand how family would be upset by such a thing, obviously, but to echo what everyone else seems to be saying, if someone's really that sad, and in that much pain (whether it be physical or emotional), then it should be their choice to end it.

that said, i think loved ones definitely have a duty of care to try their utmost to help said person out of the situation. as some people have said, you should never really give up on a person, because in the end the best thing you can do is be positive and supportive; try to help them through. if that turns out not to be enough, then so be it, but if you give up on them, it just makes it even easier to fall deeper into depression, in which case nobody's being helped.
 
kazza_baby said:
i for one could not say to someone "i know you feel worthless, so end it now so you're no longer in pain". that in my opinion is giving up on the person.
Click to expand...

Well i agree with you here.. I'm not saying to tell the person to end it because they're in pain, I would never tell someone to end their life. What I was trying to say that its their choice and eventhough it might be selfish to others, maybe due to circumstances, it could be the best choice at that time. Maybe if time was to continue on, another choice would be better but at that point of time, the person wouldn't be in the state of mind to realise that.
 
suicide. the only issue that isn't big for the people who have experienced it firsthand
 
kazza_baby said:
they've given up hope because they either haven't yet found a reason to live...
... they need a catalyst for change, i.e. some sort of 'wake up call' to make them re-evaluate how they see themselves and their place in the world.
how and when this wake up call comes is undetermined, but it does come.
Click to expand...
effectively, are you saying to someone suicidal that their life is worth living, whether they realise it or not?
 
^^ are you saying that someone's life is what it is and can never change for the better... so much so that they would want to keep on living?


I think that even if someones life is not worth living *right now*, or at least doesn't seem to be that way... life goes on for a very long time, and there is always the possibility that things will change and get for the better.

But when depressed people express suicidal thoughts, they are very much stuck in the now, they can't see things getting any better and the road to happiness seems too far away and lost. I would say that there is a very good chance that a lot of people with depression and suicidal thoughts will get through that period in their lives and go onto live a really happy existence. That things will eventually come good.

On the other hand it's very hard to unkill yourself. So if you do it I think you should at least know 100% for sure that things will never and can never ever possibly get better. But then who among those that are suicidal and depressed can really claim to know that?
 
^

macksta - you said everything i wanted to say so well :)

even though it is ultimately someone's own life, and their choice...in some ways that makes me more determined to want to stop someone from killing themselves.

i have only experienced this once [touch wood] first hand, and though i know that the person must have been absolutely desperate - i can't help but wonder what they would have been like if they had taken the other option, and were still alive now.

i think there is a possibility that their life may have gotten better. which makes me sad :(

you can never really know :\
 
what i was getting at is that someone doesn't necessarily have to be depressed (in the psychiatric sense) to be suicidal, and thus the above statements (whilst valid, and i agree with) don't always apply.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top