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tackling the big issues.... should men earn more money than women??

In some cases the father doesn't even get a chance to take custody of the child, it's mostly always given to the mother.

so I still stick with what muzby said at first, if you have a child and the wife leaves, why shouldn't the man get paid more money? afterall it's you as the woman deciding to leave the man, therefore making the man pay you child support.
 
equal pay for equal work is how it should be.
more often than not the jobs that men undertake are a lot more labour intensive than the ones women do, as women simply lack the physical strength to carry them out.

i don't see why men should get paid more for being i a job simply because they are not able to get pregnant. that is utterly ridiculous.

and no the man should not be given more money because he has to pay child support. what they pay in child support is very little compared to the day to day costs of bringing a child up. and its not like it was simply the mother's choice to have a baby, it takes two to tango!
 
Hahaha.... this is funny... because I am probably the LEAST feminist woman on this board.

If I could have a man look after me for the rest of my life I'd *gladly* say "FUCK YEAH"

But unfortunately, I've been cursed with a brain and an education and at the same time a total disgust for pretentious dicks, so it seems that every guy I meet and am interested in earns half of what I earn.

I've supported two boyfriends so far, for 8 - plus years, so suck on that all you cunts who think women are gold-diggers.... I mate for LOVE, not money. I can WELL take care of myself, thankyou very much.. in fact, my main worries with breaking up with guys is how they'll manage without me. In many cases, they'll go back to mommy; I'm sure of it.

I don't mean to sound cynical but this is a reccuring theme in SLR and in many circles I'm in, that the guy is expected to earn more money than the girl... wake up. Girls are far more educated now than they've ever been... I always knew what I wanted to do. I've ALWAYS taken care of myself. If I counted up the money I'd spent over the years on guys who couldn't pay their way in relationships I'd be on a safari in Africa or cruising the North Pole on a cruise ship by now.

But do you know what? I'm not a victim... I CHOOSE to be with down-to-earth guys. It just happens that those guys have been ones who've not much earning potential. But they make me happy, so I don't complain.

What I *do* get riled up about, is the assumption that women have no financial power and can only get to the top through being with a self-made man. That's such bullshit. Let's compare salaries, shall we? ;)

Sorry, I went off on a little speil.

On topic Muz... Yes, I absolutely think men and women should earn equal salaries, if they're doing the same job. And women SHOULD get leeway for having kids, FUCK OATH!! How on earth do you think society will survive otherwise?
 
If one worker is more productive than another, then he or she, regardless of gender, should be paid at a higher rate than a less productive colleague. However, I question an employer's right to bring maternity leave, divorce, child support, etc. into the recruitment or remuneration process. An employee should be paid on their merits, what they bring to their role and organisation and, most importantly, their overall output.

Factors such as children and child support are personal options for an employee and women should not be discriminated against for the fact that they are capable of bearing children. In saying that, I know that I have accidentally been guilty of questioning people (in my own head) at work regarding whether they'll end up wanting to take time off soon or if they'll be as motivated because of family issues/children/divorce, etc. These are not good thoughts to have though and although relevant for both genders, any employer should be conscious of not focussing too hard on these topics so as to avoid discrimination.

Re child support...
keystroke said:
In some cases the father doesn't even get a chance to take custody of the child, it's mostly always given to the mother.

so I still stick with what muzby said at first, if you have a child and the wife leaves, why shouldn't the man get paid more money? afterall it's you as the woman deciding to leave the man, therefore making the man pay you child support.
Click to expand...
That's a tough statement. There are numerous situations in which the best thing a woman (or man) can do is leave the relationship. Before the end of the relationship though, those two people have made the choice to have a child. In doing that, they are both responsible for the upbringing of that child, financially, emotionally, etc. The money that one partner then gives to the custody holder (whether it be the mother or father) is only a contribution towards the child's upbringing. An employer should not have to pay extra to the person making this contribution (or the sole parent for that matter) as the choice to become a parent was made by those two people with no input from their employers.
 
they shouldn't be earning any money at all, why the fuck aren't they cooking my dinner and hoovering the house? :D
 
Originally posted by Pseudo G
Can anyone give me a factual example of a job where a man and a woman do the same task that is not performance or comission based where their salaries are not the same?


I already gave you one. My mum earns less than other men on a board she sits on who do exactly the same job as she does. She has two bachelor degrees and a masters degree and 25 years experience, none of the men are more qualified than she is and she still takes home less than they do.
 
Variously called `pay equity', `comparable worth' or `equal pay for work of equal value', the basic concept behind pay equity is that men and women should be paid equally for work that is of either equal or comparable value. Thus, women who perform work of equal skill and responsibility to men under the same or comparable conditions, determined according to an objective measure should be paid equally.

The focus of pay equity in Australia has been generally concentrated at the national level. Pay equity issues have largely been addressed by wage fixing tribunals within the industrial relations system, rather than by direct legislation. In NSW, changes in women's wages have been tightly bound up with developments in the Federal industrial relations system.

There has been a significant shift in approach to pay equity issues this century. The Australian Conciliation and Arbitration Commission has moved from its rejection in 1912 of the argument that the basic wage for men and women be the same, to the introduction of the principle of equal pay for equal work in the first equal pay case in 1969. Subsequent equal pay cases in the 1970's and 1980's have continued to develop equal pay principles.

Further developments have occurred through the National Wage Cases of the late 1980's and early 1990's. These cases established appropriate relativities within awards, endorsed a Minimum Rates Adjustment Principle (which allowed the comparison of rates across awards) and introduced a system of arbitrated safety net wage adjustments to protect low paid workers. These federal decisions, which have flowed on to NSW, have resulted in benefits for women's pay and the recognition of their skills.

Despite Australia's somewhat checkered pay equity history, its centralised wage fixing system since the early 1970s has produced better outcomes for women than most other countries around the world. The female/male wage differential in Australia is among the smallest of the industrialised economies.

While most gains in equal pay for Australian women have occurred through wage fixing, there have recently been attempts to address pay equity issues through legislation. The Industrial Relations Act 1996 (NSW) and the recently enacted Workplace Relations Act 1996 (Cth) both have provisions which are aimed at removing pay inequities, although the mechanisms under these Acts for doing so differ significantly.


Milestones in pay equity

The following timeline charts the major Australian pay equity milestones since federation:
1907 The Federal Harvester Case establishes a basic wage for males on the basis of their `breadwinner' status.
1912 In the Fruitpickers Case, the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission rejects an argument that the male and female basic wage be the same.
1919 The basic female wage is set at 54% of the male basic wage.
1943 The basic female wage is raised to 75% under the National Security (Female Minimum Rates) Regulation.
1958 NSW becomes the first Australian industrial jurisdiction to legislate for equal pay in the Female Rates (Amendment) Act 1958.
1969 The first Federal equal pay case establishes the principle of equal pay for equal work.
1972 The second Federal equal pay case widens the 1969 principle to equal pay for work of equal value.
1973 In NSW, the Industrial Relations Commission hands down the State Equal Pay Decision.
1985 The doctrine of `comparable worth' is rejected by the Federal Commission because of the threat posed by it to existing wage relativities and wage fixing principles.
1988 Award restructuring principles to create appropriate relativities between categories within an award are adopted in the National Wage Case.
1989 The Minimum Rates Adjustment principle is incorporated in the National Wage Case decision. It allows for minimum rates and supplementary payments to be compared to rates in other awards.
1991 The NSW Industrial Relations Act 1991 establishes a framework for enterprise-based negotiations. The legislation carries over equal pay provisions from the former Industrial Arbitration Act 1940.
1993 The Commonwealth legislates for equal renumeration orders, based on ILO Convention 100.
1996 The NSW Industrial Relations Act 1996 is passed by the NSW Parliament. It updates a previous definition of equal pay to "equal remuneration for men and women doing work of equal or comparable value". The Commonwealth Workplace Relations Act 1996 is passed, which carries over the Equal Remuneration Division of the former Commonwealth legislation.
Click to expand...
 
i think it's really funny when you get offered more money because you are a single female... they asked me in a roundabout way if i was single or not, at the interview. Atm im on a 12mth maternity contract, and although its not a perm position im earning almost $20k more than the girl that im replacing... go figure!
 
i like the fact that muzby raises the initial issue and watches as opinions (and at times flaming) flies back and forth like a ball in a game of tennis. i can just picture him now... leaning back on his chair, his hands behind his head, smiling at himsels as if a job well done :P

back on topic:
i belive that a person sould be paid respective to their work ability, ant the most appropriatly skilled person that money can buy should be hired. that being said i am all for unexperienced people getting jobs so that they may progress up the workforce whilst being paid less as they aren't the best person for the job.
now with the gender issues i belive that payment should be equal if the persons involved are of the same skill level and 'work' at the same rate. But this is earth and despite how many equal oppertunity rallys and so forth there are, the fact of the matter is that some jobs are better suited to certain genders. some examples: males labouring; i have nothing against female labouring but the fact of the matter is that males are usually physically more built and hence can do a better job. customer interaction roles on the other hand, Employers may hire females (particullarly attractive ones) to take advantage of the sex perverted world we live in due to the fact that they can easily bring more money into the company due to the fact that horny guys will spend money thinking it may get them somwhere.

these examples arent perfect, i know that, but im too fucked up atm to really get into detail but ive at least kinda expressed myself
 
Are we serious? Some people actually BELIEVE that a woman should be paid less for exactly the same job as a man? for the reason that she is a woman? Shit. Let's start paying the italians less too.

A job should pay a certain salary regardless of the sex, gender, sexuality of the employee.
 
anna! said:
^ That has much more to do with the skills and suitability of the employee, and not their gender.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

The employer naturally hires the more suitable and equipped candidate for the job.
In lifting/heavy work jobs, do you hire the wimpy computer geek with no muscles, or the female bodybuilder. And do you pay the female bodybuilder less??

And yes, che_melbourne, I read all the posts. My opinion still stands.
 
sex has absolutely zero to do with what a person's wage should be.

with menial jobs, i think everybody should be on the same wage, except in special circumstances. in skilled jobs, there should be a base salary, and sometimes it's also a good idea to pay a commission based on productivity, 'hard work' , or other things like these.

each of those have nothing to do with gender; nor should it.
 
keystroke said:


so I still stick with what muzby said at first, if you have a child and the wife leaves, why shouldn't the man get paid more money? afterall it's you as the woman deciding to leave the man, therefore making the man pay you child support.
Click to expand...

Sorry but that's really a dumb thing to say. Even if it is the woman that chooses to leave the man they still had a child together and the father should at least contribute financially to the child that he helped create.

Also what if it's the man that chooses to leave the woman and the child? That's different or should he still not pay child support?
 
In answering the question:
Yes, that way i won't have to work as much :p ;)

I'm not really fussed, as long as there is enough money to pay bills and still have a little for extras then i'll be a happy girl!
 
Originally posted by che_melbourne
i like the fact that muzby raises the initial issue and watches as opinions (and at times flaming) flies back and forth like a ball in a game of tennis. i can just picture him now... leaning back on his chair, his hands behind his head, smiling at himsels as if a job well done :P


and it's great!

despite the fact that i disagree with (what i believe to be) the implication that women *shouldn't* always neccessarily be valued, monetarily, as much as men, muzby's posting is what we need more of in this place.

it's thoughtful, thought-provoking, and helps to start discussion.

/me applauds :D;)
 
Doofqueen is right, it is a really dumb thing to say.


What the hell does paying child support, and earning your wage at work have to do with each other?

Employers remunerate their employees soley on the basis of the labour that they provide, not on the basis of what incidental costs of living they might have such as child support....

I mean if I had a kid and my wife left me, the last thing I'd do is go to my boss and demand a pay rise *because* I suddenly had to start paying child support payments.. wages are linked with productivity and value to the company.. not based on completely unrelated non-business issues.
 
the topic isn't THAT thought provoking. it's merely reflecting the mindset of our times

not long ago, we'd be saying 'yes' to the answer posed above, as well as:

'no' to aborigines being able to vote
'yes' to sweatshop type employment (on a larger scale than today)
'no' to same-sex relationships, let alone marriages

things have, funnily enough, changed since then.

this may have been a 'big issue' when people were listening the righteous brothers, elvis and buddy holly, and going to drive-ins movies while courting a lady would be "swell" and "neat".

however, this is the 21st century. the century where equality is practised to the point of detriment in fear of stepping on someone's (much less capable) toes.

men should earn the same as women and vice versa if the identical work they accomplish results in an identical output.

if you are a female that settles for less than this, you're cheating yourself and insulting all the women who bothered 'burning bras' for your rights.
 
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