tackling the big issues.... government enforced youth curfews...

[muzby]

i wanted to raise the point of goverment enforced youth curfews...

what are they? when people under a certain age are not allowed out after a certain time at night, designed to curb violence etc in society...

there have been attempts in the past to try and enforce curfews on youth (dont ask me when, my brain hurts..), but more recently there have been curfews imposed in areas of natural disaster (see new orleans..)

i'd be interested to see views from all sides.. those for and against....

what do bluelighters under the age of 18 think if howard was to introduce this next year?? and what of people over 18? think back to when you were younger.. i know i caused a fair amount of trouble in my time (and had some fun..) but, as i got older, i realised there are no victimless crimes (except shoplifting.. ) so curbed my ways... looking back, would i change anything? probably not.. would i have liked a curfew? probably not..

but.. would it solve some of the crimes we have today? (especially gangs?)

but.. who would police it? would parents help out???

so... do you think youth curfews would work?

 

[ozbreaker]

Fuck curfews. Bring back national service I say.

That's what the youth of today are lacking, discipline.

Joh for PM.

 

[doofqueen]

I think it's a great idea. Only because maybe i live in an area where practically all the teens are criminals and junkies. The parents can't control them either (or don't care) I'd like to see the police play a more active role in enforcing it.

 

[silvia saint]

yeah, why not? after that goes down a treat we should extend it to muslims out after dark.

 

[preacha]

^^ it sounds racist
but if it was imposed, let's see exactly what would happen
just for shits and giggles

 

[up all night]

Preacha would never get laid if 16 year olds had a curfew.

 

[preacha]

i had a really cool comeback
it was witty
but it was definately crossing the line, so i won't say it
besides, i never go outside anyway yarni, that was just mean

 

[ButrosButros_Grantos]

Bah, whipper snappers these days. See I think that a curfew would be a great idea, having moved from rural vic to more inner burbs has kind of opened my eyes a bit to how laid back my hometown was (mooooo), but seeing these 13-15 year old kids at the local shopping centre at 5 in the morning drinking ouzo straight from the bottle really made me think "Damn, those kids drank the whole bottle..." & then "What the fuck are they doing drinking in public this early in the morning anyway.

The thing is there is no reason for kids to be out that late on the street, so a curfew would at least keep them indoors which means their parents may have some idea what they are getting up to, they may not care, but at least they'll know.

 

[endlesseulogy]

It would mean Australia turning down the path of the United States. Surely we can work something else out rather then making it illegal to allow certain age groups outside at certain times. As with all types of prohibitions, they never work, infact usually make the problem worse. If you want to solve the problem of gangs, teach children real-time values at school. Gangs come about from un-employment, hopelessness and commercial hip hop ; all trademarks of howard's new economy. Politicians just dont seem to understand the deeper ramifications of the free market economy and globalisation - which is what Australia is slowly slipping towards. Human beings intrinsicly have a free spirit. There are other ways around this problem.

 

[endlesseulogy]

I think it's a great idea. Only because maybe i live in an area where practically all the teens are criminals and junkies. The parents can't control them either (or don't care) I'd like to see the police play a more active role in enforcing it.

Doofqueen. The last thing we need is more petty criminals and small-time drug users clogging up our jails. This is also the case in the USA where the majority of people behind bars are small-time pot smokers. This is just not the way to solve the problem. The less people have contact with the criminal system - the better. It only makes them build up resentment towards society. Prohibition of heroin and other drugs has made it possible for big-time criminal gangs (over 18 years) to roam the streets sucking young kids in to a lifetime of addiction and crime. Heroin should be slowly weened off the black market and put in the hands of people that can distribute it responsibly to individuals while treat them for their addiction. These young kids usually come from hopeless homes and warm fuzzy Opiate highs are the only way out for them. Why should these addicts have to deal with the underworld to get their fix, whereas alcoholics get to buy their government drugs from a nice shiny bottle shop at reasonable prices. Australia should take a leading role in heroin treatment programmes that enable addicts to get off the street by providing clean-free heroin. That way they can pay the rent, buy food and other necessities for a reasonable life. The whole curfew idea stinks. It's a short-cut governments take when they are too lazy to treat the underlying social sicknesses. Either that or they dont believe they exist.

It's a domino effect Doofqueen.

Hopelessness = poverty = crime.

If you get at the root of individual hopelessness you will solve many of the higher problems. Why dont you ever see rich white kids on the streets? This is Howard's new Australia. Take all the money and oppertunity from the working classes and make it easier to the fat cat's of Australia to dictate policy. This gives you a higher rate of crime and hopelessness. Just like America. The richest economy in the world yet has a huge poverty rate. Thats what happens when the companies take over a country. That is exactly what is happening to Australia. People must take action to stop it.

 

[mindbodysOul]

Personally i think it's quite typical of the government to always be looking for a quick fix instead of getting to the root of the problem. You cant just put a curfew on kids and expect everyone to get along. It doesnt work like that. Sure it may work initially but with this type of restriction there will always be a baclklash.

What about education. Educating our parents on discipline. Offering free courses at community centres. Making discipline courses compulsary during pregnancy or having some type of formal training regarding parenting.

They have pre-natal classes with how to care for a newborn, what about classes about dealing with problamatic children. What about starting out with good basic nutritional guidelines, not giving your kids so much junk to eat so that they flip out. Poor diet can have such a huge impact on a childs behaviour, especially when they are young.

What about increasing the duration of paid maternity leave so that these kids can have have a disciplinary figure in the crucial early stages of life when their personality is just developing, without the stress & worry of wondering where the money is coming from.

How about reducing the number of working hours in a day so that these kids get to spend some quality time with family, so that the parents aren't coming home from work exhausted and yelling at the kids first thing through the door to clean their room.

What about making it harder to get married, making it harder to get divorced, trying to reduce the amount of children being born into loveless environments, broken homes, reducing the amount of unwanted pregnancys. Educating kids on the dangers of unprotected sex.

Also education in schools about family values, what it takes to raise a child, the importance of quality time together, the effect that divorce has. None of this was ever taught to me at school but i think these type of life skills are really important and i believe the only way to change people is to educate them.

If they dont know any different how can you expect them to act differently?

I dont know the answers but I really believe it all starts with families, education & making these kids feel loved, giving them hope & a higher sense of self worth. Kids with high self esteem dont go around inflicting violence and hate onto others. If children are taught morals and values at an early age they may still act stupid sometimes but in the end you know that they will always pull themselves back in line. Thats the difference, the kids with no morals dont know when to stop.

 

[endlesseulogy]

How about reducing the number of working hours in a day so that these kids get to spend some quality time with family, so that the parents aren't coming home from work exhausted and yelling at the kids first thing through the door to clean their room.

Some great points in your post Mindbodysoul.

These are all things the governement should be doing instead of turning Australia into a police state. This is not the United States. We come from a long line of easy-going, free-thinking people. The Howard government is ruining this nation's pride and soul. Australia used to be about fair goes for everyone. You simply got what you paid for. Australians had jobs and the working classes were reasonably happy. Now that we have sold our country off to International investors we rely too much on them for financial success. Bring the industry home, reduce immigration and make all Australians financially secure. This in turn will help create a stable population. Improve the quality of programming on TV as well. Encourage caring for others and establish shared goals that we can all work towards instead of promoting this dog eat dog attitude we all seem to live by these days. There are many things that can be done to reduce crime on the streets. Keeping people inside only creates more resentment.

 

[Wacky]

I think it is a bad idea.As usual it would be politicians being "short sighted", and picking on young people.

How about looking at why crime comes about?

Egs: Lack of education,lack of decent job opportunities - too many working poor jobs for companies to increase profits (Thanks 8) current federal government for encouraging new age slavery ),lack of any job opportunites,etc,etc....................

Also,where do you draw the line?Plenty of adults commit crimes,why NOT force curfews on them? Why just pick on young people? Mind you I'm just making a point.I don't believe in a 'police state' and being so 'short sighted'.

Why have a curfew on anyone when we are suppose to be a free society.It's against peoples "human rights",and why should anyone be punished because of others committing crimes.

It should be up to parents to be parenting,NOT up to the state.

 

[Wacky]

Encourage caring for others and establish shared goals that we can all work towards instead of promoting this dog eat dog attitude we all seem to live by these days.

There are many things that can be done to reduce crime on the streets. Keeping people inside only creates more resentment.

Top points endlesseulogy .Especially the parted I quoted above.We need to be more of a caring community, than what Australia has become.





I've experienced and seen the "dog eat dod attitude" far too much in this country in recent times.A result including people being "two faced backstabbers", "extremely selfish" and seems harder to trust people these days .

 

[doofqueen]

Doofqueen. The last thing we need is more petty criminals and small-time drug users clogging up our jails. This is also the case in the USA where the majority of people behind bars are small-time pot smokers. This is just not the way to solve the problem. The less people have contact with the criminal system - the better. It only makes them build up resentment towards society. Prohibition of heroin and other drugs has made it possible for big-time criminal gangs (over 18 years) to roam the streets sucking young kids in to a lifetime of addiction and crime. Heroin should be slowly weened off the black market and put in the hands of people that can distribute it responsibly to individuals while treat them for their addiction. These young kids usually come from hopeless homes and warm fuzzy Opiate highs are the only way out for them. Why should these addicts have to deal with the underworld to get their fix, whereas alcoholics get to buy their government drugs from a nice shiny bottle shop at reasonable prices. Australia should take a leading role in heroin treatment programmes that enable addicts to get off the street by providing clean-free heroin. That way they can pay the rent, buy food and other necessities for a reasonable life. The whole curfew idea stinks. It's a short-cut governments take when they are too lazy to treat the underlying social sicknesses. Either that or they dont believe they exist.

It's a domino effect Doofqueen.

Hopelessness = poverty = crime.

If you get at the root of individual hopelessness you will solve many of the higher problems. Why dont you ever see rich white kids on the streets? This is Howard's new Australia. Take all the money and oppertunity from the working classes and make it easier to the fat cat's of Australia to dictate policy. This gives you a higher rate of crime and hopelessness. Just like America. The richest economy in the world yet has a huge poverty rate. Thats what happens when the companies take over a country. That is exactly what is happening to Australia. People must take action to stop it.

Actually yeah ok i agree, my thoughts are a bit drastic and a bit govmental maybe?

It's just that i'm looking at it from the perespective of a single mother with a child that wants to feel safe and wants protection.

You'd understand if you had kids.

I totally agree with what your saying though.

and the hoplessness = poverty = crime is so true around these parts and i think deep down maybe i'm scared i'm going to turn out that way cos the longer i live here the more i feel like its seeping into my pores

 

[doofqueen]

I dont know the answers but I really believe it all starts with families, education & making these kids feel loved, giving them hope & a higher sense of self worth. Kids with high self esteem dont go around inflicting violence and hate onto others. If children are taught morals and values at an early age they may still act stupid sometimes but in the end you know that they will always pull themselves back in line. Thats the difference, the kids with no morals dont know when to stop.

exactly

the kids around here get yelled at and sworn at so they do the same to each other and other kids in the area (like my son) because they feel like they need to have some power because that sort of treatment makes them feel small which also leads to violent kids growing up to be another generation of violent adults

my neighbour buys herself a carton of bourbon EVERY week without fail while her kids need new shoes. The oldest sibling told me that the kids get toast for dinner half the week.

^^ so that makes the kids feel VERY underprivliged and poor and they are not getting what they need so they start stealing from a young age which is a "skill" they only get better at as the years pass by

 

[endlesseulogy]

You just can't control a whole cross section of a population. Think of all the cracks and loop holes in the system there would be. Hypothetically, what if you were under 18 and for some reason - missing a bus, or maybe dilly dallying a bit too much made you miss the 12AM deadline. Its so shaky you could blow it over. It's an extreme tactic employed by extreme regimes. It just would not fit in with Australian values. John Howard is hiding behind a patriotic veil when in reality he is eroding this country's values and freedoms.

Why go to all this trouble? Wouldnt it be much easier to, for example, ban the advertising of alcohol on TV?

A little perspective is also needed. Compared to many other Western countries our crime rate is not that high. The only way to protect yourself and the rest of society is to spread values of tolerance, understanding and fairness. If you see things in that light, then no real harm will come your way

 

[doofqueen]

^^ No, that's not true.

I moved in here and had a stigma in my head already because it was a few suburbs over where i grew up and we all new it was "the bad area" but then thought "nah, i'm being infair, give it a go, i'm a nice person, karma and all that"

Bullshit

robbed before i even spent a night there

anyway as i said i agree with you on a whole. I'm just scared for my sons safety thats all.

 

[endlesseulogy]

obbed before i even spent a night there

That sucks

There is almost always something to worry about. Most of the time justifiably so.

Would you say most of the criminals in this area are under 18?

 

[endlesseulogy]

When reading the Nov. 2 letters, I came across a statement so ludicrously incorrect I laughed out loud. Jeff Brinkman wrote: "Australia and Great Britain both outlawed private gun ownership, and crime has skyrocketed."
Huh?

This is absolutely incorrect. I cannot speak for Great Britain, but as an Australian citizen, I am here to tell you that in every respect the above statement is WRONG! I've heard this bugaboo of an argument before, and it contains not a single grain of truth.

Firstly, there has been no increase in gun-related crime at all in Australia since the firearm laws were changed in 1996/1997. Violent crime in Australia has always been very low (at least since the days of convict settlement, 200 years ago!), even in major population centers such as Sydney and Melbourne.

I do not know where Mr. Brinkman got his "figures" from, but it was not from the records of any of the police departments in any of the six states of Australia.

In fact, a quick perusal of the figures from Australia's most populous state, New South Wales, shows that in recent years there has been either no significant change in violent crimes or in some cases an actual decrease.

For example, in the period 1998-99, robbery with a firearm decreased by 24.3 percent and break-and-entering into a household has decreased by 10 percent.

Assault and murder both showed no significant change compared to previous years. In fact, with a population of over 6 million, N.S.W. had a total of 4209 armed robberies and 552 murders between 1995 and 1999.

These figures are reflected across the rest of Australia. To anybody who is interested, the stats are readily accessible at www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au.

Secondly, Mr Brinkman is incorrect in asserting that firearms are "outlawed" in Australia.

They are not. Under laws in effect across Australia, only certain firearms are banned. Restrictions exist on high-capacity self-loading rimfire rifles, self-loading centerfire rifles and shotguns and pump-action shotguns. Non-self-loading guns are still readily available across Australia.

I have no problem with Mr. Brinkman bringing in examples from outside the United States in support of the Second Amendment.

But for future reference, it would be wise to check the figures before brandishing such wild assertions about "skyrocketing" crime rates in other nations.

Since firearms laws were tightened in 1996/97, the already low violent crime rate across Australia has seen no increase whatsoever.

...

Article