Opioids Switching to Methadone from Suboxone

[albatross]

Good day to you all!

My situation is a lil complicated but I'll try my best to explain. I've been on Suboxone for 5 months now and have decided that it isn't sufficiently controlling my withdrawal symptoms/cravings. I researched Methadone and decided that along with the withdrawal/cravings I'm experiencing that the daily doses/counseling/meetings will be a good step in the right direction.

So after deciding all that I made my way to the Methadone clinic and got myself in. I'm scheduled for my first dose on Tuesday, and had questions regarding my bupe intake prior to dosing methadone. My doctor never got back to me and I want to make sure when I go in on Tuesday that I wasn't supposed to stop taking bupe.

Is taking bupe up until Tuesday when I dose going to block the Methadone? Even if I'm taking only 2mg a day? I want to make sure I can feel the methadone kick in so I don't start raising my dose just to have subs leave my system during that process and begin feeling the methadone too much right?

Any help about the transition from Bupe---->Methadone would be helpful! :D

 

[RTrain]

I don't see any reason not to just switch from one to the other. If it was the other way around, which seems to be much more common, then its a real P in the A. But in this case, especially a relatively low dose per day, you can probably just stop Suboxone one day and start the Methadone the next. The only reason to maybe wait a day off the Subs is to accurately judge the necessary dose of Methadone to hold of cravings. Because with some Sub in your system you might need a bit more, and then you might end up maintaining on a unnecessarily high dose. But honestly the difference will be pretty small if you take the 2 mg 24 prior to starting the methadone. BTW, I for one won't opine, but I am sure you are gong to hear a lot of people make note of how this is a bad idea and the Methadone route is not a good idea. I can't say for myself, I have never used Methadone, but have used Subs enough to have a good knowledge of them. I can agree that Subs are not great for holding off cravings.

 

[36bobrich]

I switched from methadone to suboxone at one point. found the suboxone to be much more effective if you are actually trying to stop taking opiates. Do NOT take your bupe for at least 2 days before you go in. Even in a small dose it will block the methadone, but about 2 days u should be fine. I'm sure your aware of how bupe works on the brain so I want go into it, but it will block the methadone from working. u wont feel anything for a few days, if u just take it right up to your first dose. u should be in at least a slight state of withdrawal before starting any maintenance program. hope it helps, good luck.

 

[36bobrich]

there are also professional settings for bupe that provide counseling, u just need to find a doctor that's not just after your $. Methadone is going to be VERY hard to quit, just a warning. I found it to be the most difficult of any opiate. Don't take your subs for at least 2 days or if u r only taking 2mg of subs perhaps u should just get your dose raised. 16 mg seemed to work good for me coming off of methadone and oxycodone. Beware of your methadone clinic, don't just keep going up if your really trying to kick. As far as getting a good kick, methadone is your best bet, its a very entertaining drug, just be careful if you are a benzo user as well, i can tell you first hand this is very dangerous. good luck.

 

[albatross]

Thanks for the advice! I'll try and stop subs then until I get dosed. My bupe program provided counseling and it was shit, paying 20$ for a session where they have you leave 10 min after you get there, it's fucked. I started at 16mg and went lower for more effect. Hope the meth is entertaining as you say, and I'll be sure to stay away from those benzos lol

 

[designed_reality]

i did what you did in 2007, and i just got off methadone and back on suboxone a few weeks ago. you don't want to do this. you want the methadone because you want the full opiate agonist feeling; it's gonna go away. if you listen to anything on this board, listen to the people that tell you that methadone isn't worth it. i was where you were six years ago, and i wish i could do it all over again. " I want to make sure I can feel the methadone kick in so I don't start raising my dose just to have subs leave my system during that process and begin feeling the methadone too much right? " bleh...., good luck to you :/

 

[OntarioGuy]

^Methadone has saved many of our lives...I'd say it's up to the individual,,,I personally need the full agonist effect to control my cravings, and I've found methadone reduces my cravings for drugs in general (stims psychs etc.) And I know people say "Oh methadone is hell blah blah blah" I dont find the w/d any worse then coming off a high dose IV didlaudid or morphine habit, but thats just me

 

[recyclethepandas]

i went through this and i strongly recommend against it. first off, in my experience, suboxone is much better at controlling my cravings and reducing anxiety. if you're getting the right dose you might even be able to get a little nod and analgesia if you meditate and control your breathing. the potency of suboxone is really in your hands. if i take a strip and move around all day, go to work, study, etc, i will forget i even took the shit. but if i make an attempt to lie down and meditate, it hits me a lot harder. if i'm sitting there meditating, it takes on some of the effects of full agonists, albeit very minimally. but if someone comes and starts talking to me, perturbing my meditation, the effects will disappear within a couple seconds. its really weird. but it's kinda like that with heroin or other full agonists in that you can be fucked up and nodding like crazy, and if you need to get up and do something you can snap out of it and function completely normally. anyway, second i wanna point out that suboxone's main advantage is that it blocks your opioid receptors. if your end goal is to stay off full agonists, methadone is the worst possible decision you can make. it will get you slightly high, but it won't be enough, and you will probably end up picking up dope or pills to tack that on. virtually everyone i know who goes on methadone, myself included, has done this. switching from suboxone to methadone, in my experience, is a ticket to relapse. third, even if you're really confident that you won't relapse on methadone, it's a shitty drug altogether. it lasts a really long time, but even after it's unbound from your receptors, it and its metabolites stay in your blood for 24-72 hours. in fact, studies have shown that it doesn't just sit in your blood, it accumulates in your bone marrow and other connective tissue. for this reason it's much more dangerous than even opioid full agonists. there have been news reports in the last 2 months stating the # of people dying from methadone toxicity is sharply rising because people think it's safe to redose when they feel the drug has worn off. even long after the drug has worn off, it's still in your blood and still capable of producing serious toxicity. even taking it once every 24 hours, as it is sometimes given (though more often once every 8 hours), will cause the metabolites to accumulate in your body. it takes a full 72 hours to fully detoxify the metabolites of methadone, which is hardly practical considering you can't wait 72 hours in between doses or you'll go nuts. finally, all the dangers aside, methadone just plain sucks. ask anyone who's done it. it makes you feel weird as hell, i wish i could even describe it. if you ask me, withdrawals from methadone are worse than withdrawals from heroin. and by that i mean, withdrawals from therapeutic doses of methadone are somehow worse than withdrawals from enormous, unhealthy, addict doses of heroin. i would rather withdraw from months of 8-ball a day heroin than withdraw from therapeutic methadone. so obviously, the withdrawals from methadone will be MUCH worse than the withdrawals from suboxone. why do you think most heroin addicts are switching from methadone to suboxone, not the other way around? many methadone clinics, in my neck of the woods at least, are going out of business. go for it if you're really confident that you wanna have a run with it, but you'll probably want to return to suboxone and theres no shame in that.

to answer what you actually asked (sorry i know that seemed pretty dogmatic and didn't even answer your question), you won't really encounter any problems like you would if you were doing this the other way around. its totally fine to take methadone even as early as 16 hours after your suboxone dose. if you do it too early, you just won't feel anything. suboxone's binding affinity is much much higher than methadone's. so it'd be a waste to take it in the first 16 hours. if you ask me, challenge yourself and wait more than 24 hours before taking it. any break, however small, you give your brain from constant opioid agonism is good for you. hopefully however you choose to do this, you ultimately succeed in getting clean brotha. good luck

edit: and like i said its different for everyone, some people don't have problems with methadone but i REALLY did. and a lot of junkies will tell you the same thing.

 

[baerr]

I think cravings is just something you have to deal with on your own. You cant depend on a drug to make your cravings completely vanish, thats something that you have to work on yourself. It may take years. I believe switching to methadone is a bad idea. just as said above, you want the methadone because you want the full opiate agonist feeling.
Anyway thats just my two cents on cravings..
Think about what you can do to help subside your cravings. I know its hard but it can be done.