Opioids Switching from low dose Bupe to Tliidine with the intention of quitting.

[What was it?]

Hey fellow Bluelighters,

I am currently addicted to ~0,5mg Buprenorphine/day which I insufflate. I know this seems very low and benign but I am not able to taper further down and the last WD was one week+ of puking, not being able to eat and surprisingly hellish for this low dose.

Since I have the access I thought about switching to Tilidine (short acting, lower potent opioid with Naloxone in ER form) because I kicked that back then without much problems.

I know that switching to a full agonist is generally not smart if one wants to taper and kick the opis. But after the last Bupe-WD I don't want to experience this kind of WD again.

My plan would be taking an equivalent dose of Tilidine (~300mg) in the morning and add another smaller dose (~100-200mg) when the first wears off.
I have enough Tilidine to taper down and I can use the ER-mechanism to my advantage when it comes to the last doses.
And I can cover most of the Tilidine-WD with Gabapentin which did not help much with Bupe...

I am aware of the negatives but due to my inability to taper the Bupe further and "positive" experience with Tilidine WD, I think it would be better to take and withdraw from a low potent Opioid (potency ~0,2 instead of 30-40 with Bupe).

What do you think? Thanks in advance!

Z

Tilidine! You must be in Germany! (or close by in Europe) I got off opiates taking high doses of Lyrica (Pregabalin), 5 different kinds of benzos and immodium. It's best to just stop the opiates. The fear is the worst. You brain is telling you the withdrawal will be so bad but you can do it.

 

[Zerwas]

*bump*

The neverending story goes on...

Again I am in the same position. I reduced the Bupe to about 0,1-0,2mg and am currently on 3 doses of Tilidine (150mg/100mg/100mg) a day since Saturday.
I feel fine except waking up nightly due to the short half-life of Tilidine. Today I will receive 50g of Kratom and take 3 doses a day for 5 days gradually reducing.

I think I am in a much better position this time. I don't have to work until the 1st of May (new job which boosts my ambition) and I get along with lower doses than before.

I would still appreciate any input but mainly I write this down for myself as a friendly reminder or my WD-diary.

 

[Znegative]

I'm doing the same thing kind of, but I dropped off of 2mg and switched to kratom. For me it completely takes care of all the withdrawals, but then again, I'm not really tapering the kratom, and I take about 5-7g 3x day usually. I prefer kratom to buprenorphine though, there's more flexibility in terms of effects. What I would do is just completely switch the buprenorphine for the kratom, stick to a kratom regimen that will hold you, so you're comfortable, adjust to that and then try to taper down on the kratom? That's kind of my plan as I've realized I do not have enough kratom to last me the rest of the month, so I started lowering my dosages. At first I was taking 9-12g or sometimes more.

 

[Zerwas]

Interesting that you get by after dropping off 2mg. Kratom is a lifesaver indeed. How long are you on the Kratom? I ask because from my experience it takes at least one week to feel the missing Bupe to the fullest. In your case I'd stabilize too for at least so long as it takes for the Bupe to fully leave your body so you basically WD from the Kratom only when you reduce that as a final step.

For me it is now or never. I won't go back on Bupe since it leaves me void after a few days and when I kicked Kratom back in 2014 it was pretty easy with a few Benzos and Gabapentin.
Good luck to you man, feel free to use this thread for your progress

 

[Znegative]

I've been on it for about three weeks, IDK I'm one of those lucky people with fucked up receptors I guess because I could feel even small dosages of kratom on top of 2-3mg of subs. I sort of cycled back and forth between the two for the first two weeks, taking 1-2mg of sub, then back to kratom, but really I've only gone back on the subs 2x in the past three weeks and the last time it was 'cause my dad was in the hospital and I didn't have any kratom on me but I did have subs. I definitely wake up withdrawing, but the last few days I've noticed a significant difference in terms of how bad the morning withdrawals are in the morning. I've also dropped my morning dose to two teaspoons of Bali, and have been trying to wait at least 6-8 hours before I redose, although I'm not always successful at that. I got to my IOP three times a week, and usually don't get back until 1:00pm or sometimes later lately as my dad's been sick, so it kind of forces me to wait a good amount of time before I take the second dose.

I'm unfortunately being forced off of clonazepam, which fucking sucks, but the only good thing about that is that I just got gabapentin prescribed to me to help with the withdrawals as I ease off of it, and plan to use it in the future to help get off the kratom. (I'm not sure I really want 'off' the kratom at this point, but it would be nice to be able to take a couple days off here and there to help reset my tolerance and all that.)

I know what you mean about 'feeling void' on buprenorphine, and that's why I like kratom so much. IMO it's very similar, but the effects aren't as 'shallow' feeling as subs, if you know what I mean. I also like that the low dosages are stimulating, because it helps a lot with my urges to use methamphetamine as well. It's overall a super helpful plant, and I wish I had tried this years ago, and look forward to trying out other strains. BTW, your posts actually gave me the idea to try kratom as a means of substitution for suboxone or methadone, so I appreciate you for that.

 

[Zerwas]

I am glad if my experience helps anyone! And if the Kratom helps you that much (with two sorts of cravings) I'd stay on it longer too. For me I just cant afford it anymore.
And yeah, the bitter herb definitely gives a bit more in terms of recreational effects but I dont like the stimulating part. Last night I only slept like 4 hours and I cant sleep for a long time after dosing so its either insomnia because of WD or insomnia because of the stimulating effects of Kratom...

But I hope I will feel that the WDs get less intense too. This morning at 6 I already changed my shirt and took my morning dose just to lay down for another 3 hours and am exhausted now.
Whatever, now I need to get some Benzos for the weekend where it will start. If only my bowels play along and I don't have to puke, everything will be fine. That was by far the worst symptom ever.

Again, I wish you the best on your journey and keep updating if you like.

 

[simplescience6]

I'll second what "what was it?" said: I've found Lyrica to be the most effective comfort med available, and I've tried just about them all. It's similar to gabapentin, but much more effective...it is, however, very addictive for some users. Phenibut is rather effective as well.

I went through hell getting off buprenorphine, having jumped off initially at 8mgs, lasting three months, then back on at 2mgs for a short period, and finally off for good...though with a harrowing period of acute and post-acute withdrawal.

Best of luck, and thank you for continuing to update this thread.

 

[Zerwas]

Thanks for your input and the good wishes. Yeah jumping off 8mg must be insane. And even at 2mg it must be still hell on earth. Like I previously said, I jumped off ~0,5mg back then and it was horrible. Maybe one of the worst things I ever experienced in my life....

I have no access to Lyrica though but I have lots of Gabapentin and now 8x10mg Diazepam for the incoming insomnia. Maybe some Clonidine would be helpful too but I don't know how to get it. Anyways I am pretty confident this time but we will see.
I will continue to update here and am still glad for any contribution. You guys are very supporting and I appreciate that immensely!
Take care.

Z

 

[simplescience6]

I believe phenibut is available and legal without prescription in Germany. If that's the case, you should be able to purchase it with relative ease online. Primaforce is a reputable brand.

I've found phenibut second only to Lyrica in stemming withdrawal symptoms. In fact, it's recently been discovered to be related to Lyrica in its mechanism of action, as well as working at the gaba b and to a lesser extent (at high doses) gaba a receptor sites . If you acquire some, be cautious with how frequently you dose, no more than once every three days at most. Like many highly effective meds, it's highly addictive. A little research on the substance will yield a wealth of info.

 

[Zerwas]

I know about Phenibut but since it is that addictive (I read some of the Phenibut WD threads on here and they convinced me to never even try it) and I have Gabapentin I won't go there.
It was godlike to sleep the whole last night due to the Diazepam. Today morning I didn't feel as bad as the days before. It is now day 6 without Bupe and I feel better than I have for a long time, probably also because of the Diazepam which I won't touch for the next 3 remaining Kratom days.

My plan is to take 20mg of Diaz when I wake up in WD on Sunday to sleep as long as I can so the 1st day without any opioids is as short as possible. Everyone knows the time dilation phenomenon when withdrawing.
Other comfort meds include Loperamide (only in low doses for the shits) and MCP. I also have one 50mg Tilidine ER left as a backup if it gets worse than expected.

And I have some plans for Friday and Saturday so I am busy and don't psyche myself out about whats coming
So far so good. The weather plays along too, getting some sun in my pale junky face and maybe even go to the solarium for some natural endorphins.

 

[simplescience6]

Yeah, if you don't trust yourself to use it exceedingly sparingly, phenibut is best left alone. However, if you find yourself desperate enough, it did provide surprising and extensive relief from w/d symptoms for me.

Dextromethorphan cough syrup, especially when used in conjunction with loperamide, has also worked well for me. There are some extensive threads on this and other boards regarding the efficacy of dxm for opioid w/d.

It sounds like your head is in a good place, and your attitude fairly positive...that goes a long way ��

 

[Zerwas]

Yeah, especially when I look back the last time I kicked I felt so good after the acute phase knowing not to be a slave anymore and being "free" so to say. But you know how it goes with us addicts...

Thanks for the DXM reminder. I haven't considered that. I also forgot to mention I got Promethazine for sleep but even in very low doses (3-5 drops, which is basically nothing) it causes such a bad hangover for me that it does more harm then it helps.

I got a message from my ex girlfriend today and she wants to meet tomorrow...don't know about that since it was a difficult breakup and I am/was pretty much over that and don't need another brainfuck factor at the moment. Well I am rambling.
I will just update this thread daily for myself from now on to stay on track. Take care!

 

[zirbeldude2]

Dont meet her if you are still vulnerable for emotional pain regarding her
And coming back together most of the time doesnt work well.

I guess you will meet her anyway so i wish you all the best!

 

[Znegative]

Yeah, especially when I look back the last time I kicked I felt so good after the acute phase knowing not to be a slave anymore and being "free" so to say. But you know how it goes with us addicts...

Thanks for the DXM reminder. I haven't considered that. I also forgot to mention I got Promethazine for sleep but even in very low doses (3-5 drops, which is basically nothing) it causes such a bad hangover for me that it does more harm then it helps.

I got a message from my ex girlfriend today and she wants to meet tomorrow...don't know about that since it was a difficult breakup and I am/was pretty much over that and don't need another brainfuck factor at the moment. Well I am rambling.
I will just update this thread daily for myself from now on to stay on track. Take care!

Shit, we're going through some similar situations it seems!

Anyway, Just wondering if you felt that there was any difference in the different ways of taking kratom, basically, if you prefer tea, toss 'n wash etc. I too sometimes find that kratom can be a little bit 'surprising' in terms of it's effects. Sometimes one dose will be stimulating, the next time the same dose will be sedating and more traditional in terms of opiate effects. I was kind of wondering if you or anyone knew whether making the tea extracts certain alkaloids better than others. I ask this because the one time I did make tea, it seemed to have more traditional opiate effects then the toss n' wash, but seeing as the effects are kind of unpredictable in general, IDK if it really had anything to do with the fact that I made resin which I then turned into tea (keeping in mind the approximate change in strength g for g).

 

[Zerwas]

I can't say much about that because I always mix my Kratom with Soy-Milk or Soy-Cacao. Never made a tea before because I imagine it must taste even worse than the powder on its own...

Slept very good last night without any meds and I did not wake up early in WDs like every other night since last weekend. But I still feel it coming so I just took my 4g morning dose and feel good also due to the sunshine. I plan to reduce the Kratom to 4/3/3 today and 3/3/3 tomorrow hopefully with longer time inbetween.

zirbeldude: You are probably right but we both could need some comfort at the moment and I am fairly sure not to invest myself too much emotionally.

Have a nice weekend guys!