Opioids Switching from bupe to methadone

[JM357]

Ok, I have been on subs for about a year and a half (this time) and it "worked" (I smoked weed and took a benzo ocassionally) then in April/May shit hit the fan. My Pain really flared up (back) and I started ordering fent off the DN. Within a month I went from 300mcg shots for a mild buzz up to 5mgs probably max and even eyeballed one b/c I was so sick and didn't want to wait. Then after about four orders (probably close to 800mg to a gram) I had a 10 fold tolerance and had to do H for like 3 weeks before switching to subs again (I stayed off H for 12 days and had horrible night sweats still for 5 days). Now when I get money I buy dope as soon as I pay the minimal bills I have to pay. Then 3 weeks ago disaster struck- I ordered RC benzos and gave me and my wife 2mgs and 3mgs myself (used ethanol to do volumetric distribution- but the kpins I had been getting each month once or twice (like 15mgs on average and would take them in 2-3 days, and taking 3-4mgs at a time) had been cut off so I had no benzos for maybe 2 months. We basically blacked out and who knows what happened other than I end up in the hospital twice (don't remember being released) my wife once and my parents took the car back (so now my only option is the DN if I did want to do something- or RCs which I would never again assume "etizolam is roughly equivalent to alprazolam). Well, I see my new PCP and he sees my MRIs and talk to him and he knows I'm in real pain and have been looking for a way out and getting in trouble. He says if I go on the methadone clinic, give them 6 months clean urines and am stable, that I could be switched to a pain doc in his practice that prescribes methadone.

So I have my intake next wed, I would have a physical and be dosed the next monday. Now they always tell patients to stop their suboxone 72 hours before- and when you ask what to do they say "we can't say legally but just survive how you have been." Now from what I have read there is NO reason you can't go right from subs to methadone (it seems to be what anesthesiologists recommend when a bupe patient is facing surgery). So what do I do (keep in mind my daughter is not with me right now she is with my parents)- the way I see it my options are:

1. Save some money and order dope from the DN express so it comes around the time I need it. If it comes on time and lasts I know I will follow through.

2. What I did when I was on bupe, wanted dope later, but needed to wait. I would shoot the bupe (was doing this daily and would do it 3 days before the clinic this time). I know there are arguements about this but I do believe the inserts on the injectable that says it has a much shorter half-life this way- I am dead sick at most 6 hours after a shot and that is if I had been doing them like every 3 hours and fell asleep (pupils huge and everything). I could stick to this.

3. I get my clonidine and gabapentin scripts right before then and I could use bigger doses with some Immodium for GI stuff. Might be able to stick it out- but might fuck up and do something stupid.

4. The Immodium (loperimide cure)- never tried it, but heard it is harmful and have no idea how well it would work.

I'm leaning towards DN or bupe and saying I didn't take it.

 

[Invisible Helper]

Wow I'm so jealous of everyone that has access to DN I've never committed to buying anything , only been on it to look ... I guess it seems to be a lot easier than I think

 

[Invisible Helper]

I wouldn't touch methadone with a ten foot pole, I've never even taken it but I've done IV heroin 3 years and every other pill opiate ... Methadone is called "liquid handcuffs" for a reason buddy

 

[CfZrx]

Lol, I hear ya! Although the more stories I hear about the horrors of having a DN connect, I am happy to be too dumb to figure it out JM! Damn, sounds rough.Let us know how it goes!

Wow I'm so jealous of everyone that has access to DN I've never committed to buying anything , only been on it to look ... I guess it seems to be a lot easier than I think

 

[JM357]

I have been on methadone twice- but years ago and my family pushed me to get off of it. First time I came off I was at 90mgs and it was HELL, BUT the detox also took me off 2.5mgs kpins a day at the same time so it is difficult to say which did which. The second time I had to do a fast taper, got to just under 40mgs, came off and it was NOT worse than a bad dope habit- more like a fairly mild withdrawal (and I actually got a couple subs and they worked (waited 4 days after last dose)) that lasted longer. I do know about the liquid handcuffs- but I've been in steel handcuffs as well and feel I am headed towards them again if don't make a change- the subs haven't worked. Also, my child is in the mix and the custody court would look favorably on me being on the clinic (since I was on subs when I was having the panic attacks that led to the benzo blackout). To add to that I am in SEVERE pain everyday and this is my chance to get on pain management- once I give the clinic 6 months clean urines I could be switched to pain management, but not before. Part of the pain is nerve pain as well which methadone helps with. I am open to "don't take methadone" opinions but these are things to keep in mind.

Also, it seems like near the end, if I did want to get off methadone, that it may actually be easier than subs IF I followed docs orders (jumping off at 2mgs; I would use a liquid mix to get to 25-100mcgs a day). You can go all the way to 1mg a day of methadone at a very slow pace of 1mg at a time and do know a couple people who got off without SEVERE suffering by literally taking like 6 months to go from less than 20mgs to off.

My Sub dosage is over 8mgs a day and honestly withdrawal at this point feels worse than 38mgs of methadone did (different- methadone was more exhausted and subs are more anxiety for me). Just keep these things in mind.

My main question is though if I do make this decision (which it wouldn't be till the 11th that I would put a dose down my throat) how to do so? It seems like the "don't take subs for three days thing is BS according to some literature I read (but I don't know what the methadone dosing schedule was). Is it b/c at the 30mg methadone dose eventually the methadone wears off to the point where the bupe rips the subs off the receptors?

I'm leaning towards IVing the bupe the last few days and stopping 12 hours or more before the methadone and using clonidine and gabapentin (with a normal immodium dosage as in a couple pills) after that. My money is coming on the 3rd and likely I would end up ordering the dope too early anyways. But I want to know a little more about how people on subs being readied for surgery are given methadone. I could order a little extra done so I could have an extra 10mgs at night off the DN until they get me to 40mgs a day (which would be the same dose I was taking).

 

[JM357]

The DN is pretty easy- it sort of just works like ebay (never bought from someone without very positive reviews and never didn't recieve a nice package) -> sorry if that is too much info (not giving actual vendors or DN sites/the tech to use it; just is SO easy to figure out).

But my main question: they act like if I don't wait 72 hours going from bupe to methadone I'm going to have some horrible WDs. But I thought it would only work the other way around with bupe being the agonist/antagonist. I guess right now my plan is IV bupe, then only very little IV bupe (reduced for 48 hours with clonidine and gabapentin, then very little the last 24 hours (I normally take about 8mgs a day when I IV bupe) with some more clonidine, gabapentin, normal dose of immodium. Then sort of taper down the gaba and clonidine the first 4 to 5 days on the methadone (they only start at 30mgs here and seem to only bump 5mgs every 3 day- think I'd be pretty much fine when I hit 40 with the build up and that suboxone is only considered equivalent to 30 to 40mgs of done anyways.

Part of me really wants to order the dope but it is causing family tension for one. Also, if I get my package 48-72 hours before the done I doubt it lasts more than 24 hours even if the triple digit grams are really pure (you can go through a lot of dope a little at a time) and I don't get a ton of money.

 

[JM357]

Also- I've never seen a full agonist not reverse sickness if in WD on suboxone in my experience. Full effect? Not always, but I wake up sick with enlarged pupils everyday on suboxone (even on 2mg 5x a day oral dosing by the time I wake up from an 8 hour sleep I NEED it) and I've never not had a full agonist at least not make me feel better (and I've had good enough dope that it has cut through when I was taking 8mgs of subs 2x a day and just skipping the morning dose).

 

[JM357]

And I wonder what if I told said PCP "what if I could take random urines for six months while on subs would you refer me to the woman who prescribes methadone at your practice?" But I doubt I'd stay clean- subs really haven't been working. Unless they just did the urines like the one they did yesterday COMPLETELY unsupervised, but then I'd actually be cheating. Also I don't think I'd get the right dose of done- he said 60-80mgs wouldn't be an unreasonable dose, but if switched from bupe I feel like they would try 30mgs like they did years ago and it didn't work and basically just barely took me out of WD.

The sub doc and methadone clinic are both different practices. I'm going to save like 5 subs too just in case I ever have to come off the done for some stupid reason. Then I would probably do short acting opioids for like 4 days, and then do like a 6 day sub detox. I know I still wouldn't completely be over the done but at least over some of the worst for me personally from past experience.