Switching from amphetamine to a different stimulant causes come down and stuttering

[JoeTheFractal]

Hi,

I've had a mild stutter off and on since I was a young child. I've noticed that when I take a stimulant such as amphetamine then my stutter goes away. However when I come down it gets very bad, I had previously attributed this to lack of sleep and exaughstion but I have just read an article about the link between dopamine and stuttering. Apparently for most people stuttering is caused by an excess of dopamine in the brain and stimulants make this worse. However there is a smaller group of people who do not have enough dopamine in their brain, for these people stimulants aleviate stuttering, this explains why I stutter on a come down. What I don't understand is that if I switch from amphetamine to something like MPA mid session then I feel like I mentally come down yet I am still physically stimultated, taking more amphetamine doesn't bring me back up. This results in me stammering really badly (worse than I have ever had - litterally unable to say anything) I have a few questions about this:

Would swapping one stim for another cause a drop in dopamine like this? (specifically D1)
What can be done to help this issue (tyrosine doesn't seem to make a huge difference - but I have only tried this once and anxiety may have also played a part.

The interesting thing is that this only seems to occur with certain stims, here are some combinations:

Amphetamine then MDMA - No stammer or come down - I have done this lots and am 100% sure about this
Amphetamine then cocaine - No stammer, generally no come down, had one once or twice. - Not 100% sure about this
Amphetamine then methylphenidate - No stammer or come down. - Not 100% sure about this
Amphetamine then MPA/Other recent RC stims - I feel fuzzy headed within 5 minutes and gradually get worse - I have done this combo twice and it has always happened

Here is a link to the article that I mentioned: http://stutter-mind-body.blogspot.co.uk/2011_07_01_archive.html
NOTE: I have not yet tried MPA on its own but plan to do so in the morning. It is possible that it is just MPA that causes me to stutter.

Any help with this would be great as it is something that I find extremely frustrating.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[drivinthattrain]

I cannot answer your question, but i am eager for replies. I also have a stutter problem, since 3rd grade, when I take a stim it goes away as well. I attributed it getting worse when i come down due to anxiety, jittery, lack of focus. Im very interested in this post. Sorry i couldent be of help.

 

[leungkachong]

Perhaps a phenomena analogous to the partial agonist induced withdrawal effect of opioid on tolerant individuals? Or the path-specific Reciprocal i inhibition with 5-HT and DA

 

[sekio]

I would hazard a guess that the MPA just doesn't play well with you.

Because MPA is so pharmacologically close to methamphetamine it may just be "overloading" your body with monoamines, causing your brain to have a hard time compared to the "milder" reuptake inhibitors and amphetamine.

You don't actually mention the doses you are using either.

Do keep in mind that the combination of stress, fatigue, and brain overactivation can cause speech disorders to get exacerbated. I've heard of people whose speech slowly goes downhill as they ingest MDMA over a night.

 

[Hammilton]

Do we actually know that MPA is "so pharmacologically close" to meth do we? It was my impression that it had far more significant adrenergic effects.

Personally I would suggest that it's the much greater level of adrenergic stimulation from MPA than amphetamine.

Is this really a case of wanting to know the mechanism or just to have a solution? If it really is the former, then I'd suggest that you give ephedrine a shot. Please do it separately though- don't go taking ephedrine with amphetamine. Ephedrine is bad enough. You're looking to cure your stutter, not to die.

I don't think using ephedrine, ever, is a good idea, but that'd give you an answer.

 

[JoeTheFractal]

Thanks for the replies. Hammiltin: I'm interested in both. It also does it with a-pvp, does that cause a greater level of adregeric stimulation too?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[MeDieViL]

Do we actually know that MPA is "so pharmacologically close" to meth do we? It was my impression that it had far more significant adrenergic effects.

Personally I would suggest that it's the much greater level of adrenergic stimulation from MPA than amphetamine.

Is this really a case of wanting to know the mechanism or just to have a solution? If it really is the former, then I'd suggest that you give ephedrine a shot. Please do it separately though- don't go taking ephedrine with amphetamine. Ephedrine is bad enough. You're looking to cure your stutter, not to die.

I don't think using ephedrine, ever, is a good idea, but that'd give you an answer.

Allways amazes me how ppl get differened effects from a simular chemical, MPA feels alot less adronergic to me then most other stims, feels very anxiolytic, even aids sleep for me as the high feels very relaxing.

That said its possible its not just da playing a role for your stuttering, amp also releases glutamate as would most chemicals that agonize the nicotinic alpha7 receptor to cause their effects, its unknown how exactly mpa causes its monoamine release its a related chemical however this can differ.

 

[blight12]

Is this stutter and obvious physical effect or more mental as in its caused by gaps in processing what you want to say before sending to the mouth.
I get the latter with meth odd pauses and unexpected endings mid sentence due to mental distractions or forgetting the rest of the sentance. It comes across similar to a stutter

 

[Kilfer]

Is this stutter and obvious physical effect or more mental as in its caused by gaps in processing what you want to say before sending to the mouth.
I get the latter with meth odd pauses and unexpected endings mid sentence due to mental distractions or forgetting the rest of the sentance. It comes across similar to a stutter

Sorry for reeling up this dormant post but I had a similar issue even though it was never considered a "stutter" per se. My work is mentally demanding so at the beginning of my career 25 years ago I began using stimulants to help boost performance. In those days this was very prevalent in the IT development industry and the fuel of choice was methamphetamine, which at that time had not yet acquired the social stigma it now carries. One summer 21 years ago I was on vacation I indulged on a 6pday meth binge that landed me in the psych ward for 6 weeks, prompting to drop meth and coke forever. Seeking less risky alternatives I stumbled upon the nascent world of RC stimulants and over the years used a variety of the so-called "cleaner" substances, or "working stims" found among substituted amphetamines/cathinones/methcathinones etc. I favored those with little or no psychedelic activity, just plain mental stimulation but a modicum of subtle euphoria was also welcome.

For a reason that it is still not clear to me the use of these induced a form of speech impediment caused by the inability to complete a sentence; as I was formulating it in my mind I would start the sentence and then poof all of a sudden my train of thoughts just stopped. All memory of the remaining words I had meant to say had just vanished but would resurface in clumps making it look as if I was stuttering, but I best describe as struggling with a fragmented memory structure. A neurologist I consulted explained the brain chemistry bug that may have been caused by those classes of drugs but I don't recall the details. He suggested that if I REALLY needed a CNS stimulant he'd rather prescribe me methylphenidate than amphetamine based drugs citing the lack of such "deleriant" side effects (as he put it). Ever since then I have been using only methylphenidate related drugs as work stims and the "fragmented memory" has never resurfaced. Now I feel the itch to research the biochemistry behind the phenomenon.

 

[sean107]

I have to say I'd highly suggest you dont look into stimulants as a cure for stuttering or anything else generally. I've had the same issue with stutters as you've posted about and used stimulants over time for various 'reasons' but in the end none of them were worth it and the real reason I used them was because I was addicted to them. Its just harder to see that with stimulants because they make you think they're helping you.