Suspected case of brain damage = no more drugs for me, ever.

[celtics]

In the 6 years that I have been using various substances occasionally (LSD, MDMA, Psilocybin, cannabis..) I have had the odd difficult experience but have now decided that I'm done with substances for good.

The night of NYD saw me take 2 hits of a pill containing 2c-i which did not appear to me to have had much effect, followed by a pill called a 'purple bomb' containing (god knows what) possibly 6-apb, bk-mdma, and/or MDAI. This was followed some hours later by two more hits of the 2c-i pills, which quickly put me into a completely monged-out state where I truly believed I had destroyed my brain.

I did not sleep for the next 12 hours and had difficulty stringing words together (but managed) and felt very fogged out with what I can only describe as 'tingles' throughout my head. I felt like I was overheating quite a bit too, which several cool showers seemed to help with. The next morning I collapsed on a visit to the kitchen, briefly losing consciousness, before quickly coming to and being helped back to bed.

I am really worried that this time I have gone way too far and have done lasting damage to my brain. I have done some self-diagnostics with memory, language, and spatial testing and everything there checks out, but I feel very foggy and am noticing some of the 'tingly' physical sensations still.

I've been taking 5htp and SAMe in addition to b-complex vitamins to help. Also took some strong antioxidants once i started feelings I'd broken myself.

It's been 3 days and I still have a heaviness in my head. Language seems to be fine, mood is fine, I'm a little slower, but quite foggy. I'm very worried that I've done permanent damage, but am relieved to still have some of my faculties.

Any thoughts or advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[RobotRipping]

give it a week or two and i'm betting you will be fine; i doubt there's any long term damage. I've done high doses of 2c-i quite a bit and the day after can feel as you describe. Throw some random stimulant/mdxx combo pill in there and you probably just had a bad crash from all of the stimulation.

 

[OctoberRust12]

give it a week or two and i'm betting you will be fine; i doubt there's any long term damage. I've done high doses of 2c-i quite a bit and the day after can feel as you describe. Throw some random stimulant/mdxx combo pill in there and you probably just had a bad crash from all of the stimulation.

Why would he take another pill containing said substances when he is already worried about his state right now? I do agree however on letting himself take a good week/months even to recover. Do not dose anything else while you feel this way. Eat right, excerise, also do brain excerises such as crosswords, puzzles, brain teasers. I would NOT take anything besides maybe viatamins.

 

[herbavore]

I don't think robot was advising taking anything else, he was saying that the random stimulant the Op took added to the groggy state of mind.

Op, I think you are more than wise to put substance use behind you. That is a lot to have put into your body at one time. You are on the right track with exercise and vitamins and a healthy diet. What about plans for how you will handle the void left by not getting high? Making concrete plans for how you will keep your resolve will help assure that you do. Good luck!

 

[Ixchellian]

All that together will definitely zap your seratonin.... and it can take a while to recover. Taking that much 2c-I alone (at least unadulterated/confirmed 2c-I) is far more than what'd be considered "safe".

You'll be alright, just lay off the psychedelics, even weed.... and especially party pills. Take your vitamins, and drink lots of water.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Serotonin directly modulates blood flow in the brain.
The heaviness you are feeling is a result of serotonin toxicity, but it will go away.
Even heavy MDMA users with severe psychosis eventually achieve normal blood flow, but it can take up to a year.
You probably won't take that long.

I recommend AGAINST 5-HTP.
It could be making the anxiety worse, as it did for me in the first several months of recovery.
You do not just have a shortage of serotonin, you have compromised transmission.
Shoving more serotonin into the system is NOT going to fix the problem.
5-HTP only works for those with moderate or mild comedowns, not head-pressure and fear of brain damage.

If you insist, you should try plain tryptophan, not htp.
It turns into serotonin much more slowly and depends on your own bodies metabolism to do so.
Even so, I would advise taking TINY doses - like 10mg which is a small fraction of a single pill.
A high protein diet, esp. milk, will provide all the tryptophan your body needs.

Add lots of fish oil to your diet.
Take it several times per day.
It increases mylenation in the brain which helps with serotonin sprouting.

I suggest a very mild diet for a while.
The intestines are the primary site of serotonin, and the act of digestion is the greatest cause of serotonin activity in the brain.
By eating lots of fruits and veggies, lean proteins, and healthy carbs...you will lower brain serotonin levels.
This should bring some relief.
I drank a liquid diet for 3 weeks when I had serotonin syndrome!
Protein shakes with lots of frozen berries...

Anti-inflammatory turmeric extract is highly recommended.
Combine it with black pepper to increase its bio availability.
It should make you feel better.

And brush your teeth four times per day, and floss at least once.
The mouth is a cause of constant ongoing inflammation in all the bodies small blood vessels.
Plaque is treated like an infection, which leads to an immune response that is system wide.
The difference will be minor, but over a long period of time it does make a difference.

Avoid amino acids in general, like tryptophan.
There are plenty of others that have powerful effects on the brain.
Stick to healthy diet and protein shakes.

There are no medications that doctors can offer, aside from benzos as a SHORT TERM coping agent.
Long-term use will fuck you up much worse.

Lots of Vit. C with your fish oil, too.
And for the greatest recovery advice...

Exercise.

It can be damned near impossible to do, and you should take it very slowly.
But you must force yourself to do some moderate lifting and stretching.
It will release a serotonin growth factor, BDNF.
Not only does this cause axonal resprouting and increased plasticity, it send STEM CELLS into three key brain regions.

And if you have brain damage outside of these regions, STEM CELLS have been documented to proliferate upon injury.
The brain is remarkably resilient.
No matter what, you are going to be ok.

I am 14 months recovered from Serotonin Syndrome caused by an MDMA/benedryl interaction.
The first 3 months were absolute HELL.
I cannot describe how I mourned the loss of myself.
But by month 5 I was in control of my emotions most days and succeeding at work.
Between months 6-8 I had a few strokes...yikes.
But after this it has been a slow uphill ascent.

Around one year things really started to improve.
And this is voiced by many recovering MDMA users or even SSRI users with terrible withdrawals.
The 12 month timeline is pretty solid with many types of drug recovery, especially serotonergics.
That doesn't mean I don't still struggle, because I do.
There are very hard days even now...
And I have no doubt that 'brain damage' occurred.

But I am shocked at how little cognitive damage this actually caused.
And I have a lot of faith about the next years of my life.

So get to exercising as soon as possible.
Do five minutes, or just one.
But do SOMETHING that breaks muscle fibers.
Cardio is a bit intense right now, but you could try it.
If head-pressure gets really bad, avoid strenuous exercise and take it SLOW.

You are going to be ok, no matter what.
I have told that to so many serotonergic drug users in recovery it is ridiculous.
Only a VERY small minority of them go on to suffer past 12-18 months.
And quite a few recover spontaneously within 2-3.

I hope you are in that second group.
Good luck, and let me know if you have any questions.

 

[celtics]

Wow. Thankyou all for your words of advice and support, reading through has helped a lot to normalise and reduce my anxiety.

I'm noticing a very gradual improvement in what I'm experiencing, and have taken the day off work to just go slow (i.e, sleep, healthy breakfast, walk, reading in the sun).

I'm about to head to the gym for a light workout. I've stopped the 5htp and am taking omega 3s.

Herbavore, you raised a very important consideration regarding the void left by getting high. I have some ideas about this but I don't have a clear focus yet, this will be something to ponder, thankyou for bringing it into awareness.

Thanks again to all posters, I'm really glad I voiced this here, you've all given me hope and some practical ideas to follow up on. Wow. Thankyou all for your words of advice and support, reading through has helped a lot to normalise and reduce my anxiety.

I'm noticing a very gradual improvement in what I'm experiencing, and have taken the day off work to just go slow (i.e, sleep, healthy breakfast, walk, reading in the sun).

I'm about to head to the gym for a light workout. I've stopped the 5htp and am taking omega 3s.

Herbavore, you raised a very important consideration regarding the void left by getting high. I have some ideas about this but I don't have a clear focus yet, this will be something to ponder, thankyou for bringing it into awareness.

Thanks again to all posters, I'm really glad I voiced this here, you've all given me hope and some practical ideas to follow up on.

 

[Biovail]

Why would he take another pill containing said substances when he is already worried about his state right now?

Sorry but just lol.

@OP
Give yourself a good 2 or 3 weeks to recover. You may have damaged your brain, but it almost certainly isn't permanent. Your brain chemistry is still just a little screwed up and should reset itself given enough time.

But take a lesson away from this. More drugs isn't always a good thing and they do have their risks. We'd all be much healthier if we used drugs on occasion rather than the go-to thing when we're bored.

 

[fridgebuzz]

I never combo with anything. From second-hand experience that's where the issues and dangers with drugs begin.

 

[NotQuiteThere]

I've been VERY frequently worried about brain damage. God, if I can't remember a word or I use improper grammar I think immediately "FUCK, I should've done less E."

In any case, there's no way to tell the day after, and self diagnostics aren't terribly useful since they're self administered and you don't really have a baseline against which to test. From your description it's unlikely you've done any significant lasting damage. I say significant, because any ingestion of a substance can be seen to be "damaging" in the sense that it'll cause minute changes in the way your brain works afterwards. Of course, whether these changes are bad or not is up to debate.

First Bad Comedown described it well above. Abstain for a while and treat this as a warning. The nasty thing about brain damage is that you don't really notice it, it just sneaks up on you really until it's blatantly obvious. If you 'suspect it' but can't find anything wrong, it's 99% likely the drugs have just overloaded you with so many neurotransmitters that it's going to take a while for you to regain homeostasis.

The only thing that really matters here is that YOU felt your consumption was excessive and damaging. Don't consume so much (or at all for a while). See how much better you feel naturally without drugs. Sure you won't feel like you're rolling face or anything that awesome, but you won't have to deal with the cognitive deficits created by such states. Rolling (for example) may be awesome, but try to do normal tasks involving critical thinking while under the influence and you'll quickly realize it's impossible. Your brain isn't magic. It isn't immediately able to resume normal function once the E has washed out of your body, gotta give it time and take care of it

Exercise is a good idea always. Aside from the research demonstrating that regular exercise promotes neurological recovery, on a simple level extra blood flow to your head is just good at removing toxins. I had a friend who could always take twice or 3x as many drugs as me in a night, despite being smaller than me, and remain functional. Her secret was going to the gym next day no matter how shitty she felt and running for 4-5 miles or more. I would sit on my ass and feel terrible. keeping your blood pumping, and your overthinking to a minimum, is a good idea.

 

[NotQuiteThere]

BTW antioxidants/b vitamins/etc aren't magic. 5-htp is moderately useful if you're low on serotonin, but as others have pointed out, it can increase anxiety as well. Your body is a complex chemical reaction. You can throw more reagents (vitamins) into it, but ultimately it will keep the rate at which processes occur relatively constant. Your brain can't just take an unlimited amount of b-vitamins to wash out anything nasty in there, it has to limit the speed in order to preserve other bodily processes. One of the things that is 'damaging' about these drugs is that they release neurotransmitters VERY rapidly. This creates a state of incredible euphoria unachievable endogenously, but also puts a huge stress on your body since it's simply not designed to process that many chems at once. It's like redlining your car, not good for it. Fortunately your brain heals over time, so give it that time and don't throw more drugs at it in the process. Vitamins are good. I'd avoid the 5htp for the long term just because you don't want to teach your brain that it's normal to have excess serotonin. Unless you're actually depressed, doing so can lead to your brain producing less serotonin endogenously. (I'm not a neurology expert but from the classes I've taken on the subject it's always better to be safe than sorry with consuming things purported to increase one neurotransmitter, unless you've been directed to do so by a doctor of course).

Teach your body what "normal" is again over a period of time and you'll probably feel normal.