Misc Supplements: to take or not to take?

[Tallbuilding]

(TL;DR: poor results from supplements in the past, looking to see what other options are out there to help me with anxiety, ADHD and poor quality of sleep, or whether I should just give up altogether)

Hi all,

I'm a 22 year old male, suffering from ADHD PI, poor quality of sleep and general social/approach anxiety and a slight stutter (which I have suffered from since childhood, and is the main reason for my anxiety I believe). I had a bout of severe depression a few years ago which resulted in me going on Citalopram (I have since stopped taking this) and it probably is the case that I have quite a depressive attitude.

I was prescribed Vyvanse and I took it a few days for my ADHD, but I had to stop as the side effects were too overpowering. So, since then I have been looking at other ways to help me with my day to day life: vitamins, adaptogens, mood enhancing supplements, etc. My list throughout the last year or so is as follows:

Rhodiola Rosea: (Good quality <no brand discussions> brand: freeze dried, 3% Rosavins, 1% Sali, Siberian sourced) - No noticeable effect after 2-3 weeks of taking it, and if anything might have a negative impact on my anxiety
L-Theanine: Tried with food and w/o food, with coffee and w/o coffee - no real impact, just makes me a little tired and no desired effect on anxiety
5-HTP: Again, good quality brand bought - no effect
L-Tyrosine: <no brand discussion> brand bought, took it with Vitamin B Complex and 5-HTP as that was apparently a good stack - made me anxious and zoned out
Tumeric (Curcumin) - least effective of them all for depression, no impact in the slightest
Vitamin B Complex/Cod Liver Oil/Vitamin D/Magnesium/Calcium/Zinc - I take these regularly, but since getting into a regime of taking them, I can't honestly say that I'm all the better for it.
L-Tryptophan: Similar to 5-HTP, and same old story
Lemon Balm: take it in tea format, of an evening: makes me tired, but anxiety/poor mood still persists.
Melatonin: awful headache and grogginess in the morning, gave up on it

I have a few other options I can try, namely ashwagandha for my poor quality of sleep and anxiety, but I'm hesitant to spend any more money on supplements given the lack of success of my previous attempts. So essentially I just wanted to ask:

1: Should I carry on taking them, but perhaps use them as a stack with something else, to make the effects greater? If so, what would you recommend?
2: Or should I try something different completely and give up on the supplements

Thank you

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Noble kava root powder.

 

[Tallbuilding]

Noble kava root powder.

Being
from the UK it looks quite hard to source, but I have found one place it's sold:

<no sourcing>

Does that look any good to you?

Also, seeing as something like Rhodiola didn't work to me, is something like this going to be much different?

 

[emkee_reinvented]

For the things you mentioned I was about to throw Ashwagandha out there but you allready have it on hand. So definetily try that one out. It is subtle but, for me actually the only supplement I rave posetively about. I did try out the other ayurvedic herbs Brahmi and Tulsi. But Ashwagandha really stood out and seems to have a reasonable safety profile.

So what did it do? It made my piss smell like horse urine. Later on I learned In Sanskrit Ashwagandha means “the smell of a horse,” indicating that the herb imparts the vigor and strength of a stallion, and has traditionally been prescribed to help people strengthen their immune system after an illness." taken from http://www.chopra.com/articles/what-is-ashwagandha#sm.0001u1aow78qcesarrk17ounzqb1d


To me it feels balancing, posetively influences my mood and is a aphrodisiac

 

[bluemonkey]

I have heard that white kratom can help with depression and red and yellow are relaxing for many. We aren't supposed to mention sources here. Also, Dramamine ( called grovel in the UK I think) helps me with sleep most of the time. I have not tried white kratom but I have tried red and yellow bali and red brunei. oh and red horn. I find if i mix red bali with a little red brunei i get great relaxation and pain relief.

have you tried S-Adenosylmethionine? i am researching it for my tylenol issues and everything i have read says its great for mood issues

 

[Tallbuilding]

For the things you mentioned I was about to throw Ashwagandha out there but you allready have it on hand. So definetily try that one out. It is subtle but, for me actually the only supplement I rave posetively about. I did try out the other ayurvedic herbs Brahmi and Tulsi. But Ashwagandha really stood out and seems to have a reasonable safety profile.

So what did it do? It made my piss smell like horse urine. Later on I learned In Sanskrit Ashwagandha means “the smell of a horse,” indicating that the herb imparts the vigor and strength of a stallion, and has traditionally been prescribed to help people strengthen their immune system after an illness." taken from http://www.chopra.com/articles/what-is-ashwagandha#sm.0001u1aow78qcesarrk17ounzqb1d


To me it feels balancing, posetively influences my mood and is a aphrodisiac

Thank you very much for the reply

I've got Organic India Ashwagandha <no vendor/price discussions>. I was told that with these types of herbs and roots, same with Rhodiola, to buy quality as that has a great impact on its effectiveness. This is quite a cheap price for 60 capsules, but the reviews seemed good. Do you think it matters too much which brand I get?

Another thing, from your experience, is this okay to be taken during daytime, or does it induce too much drowsiness? If Ashwagandha works well for me in a relaxing, ease into sleep kind of way, I think I would also like something which I can take during the morning/afternoon, which'll give me that stimulated, motivated feeling: that's what I hoped Rhodiola would do, but it did nothing :/

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Being
from the UK it looks quite hard to source, but I have found one place it's sold:

<no sourcing>

Does that look any good to you?

Also, seeing as something like Rhodiola didn't work to me, is something like this going to be much different?

Sorry for the short response last time. I was in a hurry to go somewhere and had only started typing. Unfortunately being in the UK will make it difficult to get anything except the legal intoxicants (ethanol, tobacco, caffeine) or prescription drugs.

And as a reminder, we don't allow any sourcing, vendor, or pricing discussions.

 

[d1nach]

Why dramamine and not benadyrl? I think dramamine has chlorotheophylline which acts like caffeine to increase alertfulness

 

[bluemonkey]

for me benadyrl does naaf-all especially in w/d. I joke that dramaine dosing is 50mgs to sleep through travel bit of vacation 100mg to sleep through whole vacation and wake up back at your desk. for me it definately doesn't increase alertness.

 

[Intense]

Prescribed 20mg Adderall XR/day. Only take it 2-3 days per week though to keep tolerance down.


Omega 3 2000mg (Morning)
CoQ10 (During comedown)
Magnesium Taurate 350mg (Before bed)
Zinc 50mg (Before bed)
Vitamin C 1000mg (During comedown)
Cayenne Extract (During comedown)
Garlic (During comedown)
L-Carnitine (During comedown)
Low dose aspirin (Pre workout)
L-Tyrosine (During comedown)
Vitamin B12 Injection, preferably methylcobalamin. (1ml, once a week)

And my diet is high in various proteins(balanced amino acid intake), medium-low complex carb intake, medium healthy fats(avocado, coconut/olive oil, etc).


Get at least 6-7 hours of sleep a night, because it's what I require.


So my habits outside of using the drug are what keeps me from having harsh comedowns and also prevent me from building such a tolerance, especially since I refuse to take it every single day. Otherwise I know my body and I WILL become dependent on the drug.

 

[d1nach]

I taken2 -6g of omega 3 fish oil also seems to help

 

[Tallbuilding]

Where do you get your Cod Liver/Fish oil from that you get it in such high doses? My capsules say one a day and they're 600mg

 

[Tallbuilding]

Prescribed 20mg Adderall XR/day. Only take it 2-3 days per week though to keep tolerance down.


Omega 3 2000mg (Morning)
CoQ10 (During comedown)
Magnesium Taurate 350mg (Before bed)
Zinc 50mg (Before bed)
Vitamin C 1000mg (During comedown)
Cayenne Extract (During comedown)
Garlic (During comedown)
L-Carnitine (During comedown)
Low dose aspirin (Pre workout)
L-Tyrosine (During comedown)
Vitamin B12 Injection, preferably methylcobalamin. (1ml, once a week)

And my diet is high in various proteins(balanced amino acid intake), medium-low complex carb intake, medium healthy fats(avocado, coconut/olive oil, etc).


Get at least 6-7 hours of sleep a night, because it's what I require.


So my habits outside of using the drug are what keeps me from having harsh comedowns and also prevent me from building such a tolerance, especially since I refuse to take it every single day. Otherwise I know my body and I WILL become dependent on the drug.

You have a lot of supplements there which I have. Just a few questions:

1) Do you take the Omega 3 (presumably Fish oil?) in the morning with your Adderall?
2) Are there any particular foods you try to avoid/eat when you're feeling the effects of Adderall, and also when you're coming down? I've heard that foods high in vitamin c/sugars are good for the comedown, and anything with protein is good for when the effects are felt.
3) How much L-Tyrosine do you take on the comedown? is 500mg enough?

I exercise a fair bit too, which I think helps a lot. Also, what does Cayenne extract do for you?

 

[d1nach]

Sorry that was misleading what i meant to say is i take 2-6 grams (2 - 6 1 gram gels) i take them in 2 or 4 gram doses with my first and or second adderall dose (* no reason it just so happens its with my medications)

Also I sometimes take 2-6 grams rectally with
5-15 ml of butter and or
coconut oil as a lubricant
and or up to 60 ml of extra virgin olive oil or vegetable oil or mineral oil and or
1% percent table salt saline at 125-2000 ml sometimes with up to 3% nonfermentable sugar like erthytitol


Each 1 gram pill containing 500 mg of omega 3 fatty acids 250 mg of epa and 250 mg of dha.

 

[d1nach]

Now that i think about it i do take alot of supplements for adderall side effects

1500 mg of calcium carbonate for coffee reflux
Chewed (Green tea leaves many grams
(Supplying 25 mg of l theanine 25 mg of caffeine 500 mg of polyphenols ~ 250 mg of egcg)
Nondigestable fiber (paper towels)
Lignin (paper towels plant matter ie tobacco tea leaves ect)
Digestable cellulose (toliet paper) beta glucan (oat meal)
Tobacco extensive)
Diphenhydramine for nausea
Peanutbutter

Topically
(Triethanolamine stearate butane co2 (shaving cream) , / acid base buffer
Sunscreen aerosol spf 70, / uv buffer
Cetyl alcohol, / emulsifier surficant thickener
Quaternary ammonium compounds, surficant
Polydimethylsiloxane and dimethicone, lubricant
Deet surficant * less than normally used like one spray for a quick second
Etoh fast drying for even oil application
Vegetable oil,olive oil, coconut oil, hydrogenated soybean oil, butter, mineral oil antidry skin
Sodium dodecyl sulfate surficant emulsifier
Glycerol emulsifier
Ammonium acetate
Lidocaine
Sodium edta)

Weightlifting light 3-7 x a week low intensity for like 15 -45 minutes
Walking 5-7 times a week on treadmil for 20 to 60 minute

Carbonated water
Citric acid (*only to speed the caffeine from coffee extraction)
Coffee

 

[Tallbuilding]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

How do find coffee when on Adderall? For me, I think it would induce anxiety, but maybe it would help me get that lift I need in the afternoon when the effects wear off?

Currently, I take Magnesium, Zinc and Calcium with my evening meal, and have tried L-tyrosine today as I heard that helps with Dopamine levels. I also take Vitamin B Complex, Cod Liver Oil and drink Green Mate tea as my perk-up drink (although it doesn't really wake me up as much as coffee does)

Would you recommend anything else? I'm starting to divide my dosage (15mg in morning, 15mg at lunch) to prolong the effects and make the comedown smoother, which hopefully will help.

 

[d1nach]

I extract the caffeine from coffee then drink the concentrate so it makes adderall alot stronger and freatly increases the tremor, pointless chewing, and heart rate.


Inkeep my levels unders 400-800 mg at once. (5 cups ten cups ) meaning after my firstndose i might have have 200-400 mg at plus 4 plus 8 and plus 12.

For example (hours after waking)
(+0) 600 mg
(+4) 200 mg
(+8)200 mg
(+12) 200 mg *

Consumption of over 300 mg of caffeine per day is not recommended according to the fda

Im extremely dependent on caffeine.

Also remember coffee can vary alot some at convience stores like extra caffeine i think has 110 mg per 6 ounce verses some others at 60 mg - 100 mg and k cups at around 120 mg per kcup which can be almost double one 6 oz black drip coffee.

Also matcha tea is 3 - 5%?caffeine by weight so that can really add up.

Say you have a 20 oz black coffee and a tsp of matcha tea you could be having like half a gram of caffeine or like the equivilent of 7 redbulls without it seeming like you had all that much.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Thank you very much for the reply

Another thing, from your experience, is this okay to be taken during daytime, or does it induce too much drowsiness? If Ashwagandha works well for me in a relaxing, ease into sleep kind of way, I think I would also like something which I can take during the morning/afternoon, which'll give me that stimulated, motivated feeling: that's what I hoped Rhodiola would do, but it did nothing :/

Ashwagandha is balanced out nicely, it's not really a stimulating and/ or sedating herb. Adaptogenics is the class it probably belongs. It won't keep you awake nor did it put me to sleep. But the sleep I had was great erotically flavored dreams were a bonus to. At day time same thing subtle but definte allround improvement.

Mulungu seems like a good candidate if you seek a downer from the herb kingdom. I had some trials with it and the extract and found the effects were promising. Very effective and unique.



About the brands, which in all is just about quality, there are cheap good brands and expensive worthless ones. I having one at the moment. But like I wrote the smell of your piss is the first measure. No smell = bad Ashwagandha in my experiences.

 

[Intense]

You have a lot of supplements there which I have. Just a few questions:

1) Do you take the Omega 3 (presumably Fish oil?) in the morning with your Adderall?
2) Are there any particular foods you try to avoid/eat when you're feeling the effects of Adderall, and also when you're coming down? I've heard that foods high in vitamin c/sugars are good for the comedown, and anything with protein is good for when the effects are felt.
3) How much L-Tyrosine do you take on the comedown? is 500mg enough?

I exercise a fair bit too, which I think helps a lot. Also, what does Cayenne extract do for you?

1. I take the fish oil with my second meal. Since fish oil is acidic I try and space it out a couple hours after my adderall dose. I try and stay as alkaline as possible before and after my adderall takes effect. BUT I do avoid things like antacids and baking soda while they potentiate it at first, they end up making you produce more stomach acid which more or less defeats the purpose long term.


2. I try and avoid anything that is going to increase the acidity of my urine and stomach. So in the mornings I will usually make a shake consisting of 2 scoops of whey protein, some raw egg whites, and a large serving of cooked spinach(which I pre-cook then freeze in the freezer at the beginning of each week). While whey and eggwhites as with the majority of protein sources are acidic, I still require protein first thing so it's a give and take for me. Besides you want a good balance of amino acids for the adderall to have it's full effect. Nutrition is key when taking this drug.

Things I would avoid are stuff like fruit juices, simple carbs/sugars, etc.. As well as acidic drinks like coffee. Even though I am guilty of have my morning cup lol.

As for the comedown it's the opposite. I usually have a well balanced meal, usually consisting of red meat and a complex nutrient dense carb like a sweet potato, then a veggie like asparagus, broccoli, or more spinach, and this is when I supplement with 1000-2000mg of vitamin C to speed up the elimination of the adderall from my system. Maybe also some organic raw cranberry juice or beet juice.(Both have a plethora of health benefits, especially for your organs, liver/kidney function etc..)


3. I found if I supplement with Tyrosine too soon and the adderall is still in effect that I develop a headache. Or if I take it too late it can interupt my sleep a bit, which is extremely important for recovery. So about an hour after the vitamin c and I'm feeling it pretty much completely out of my system I will take about 1/4 a teaspoon which is approx 650mg I believe. You don't want to take too much. Also I don't do the tyrosine everyday. Usually every other day. As I don't even take my adderall but 2-3 times a week.


4. The cayenne is just a good supplement for circulation, cardiovascular system, chemicals in the brain, as well as metabolism. If you notice it is in many "fat burner" supplements for that effect. But since adderall is a vasoconstrictor I mostly use cayenne to get the blood flowing again, it also helps with erection quality and libido, etc.. I take this during the comedown. If you are prone to heartburn/indigestion it can increase that so it is good to supplement with a shot glass of organic apple cider vinegar.




And of course weight lifting and cardio is key for me. Keeps me sane and from murdering people.. also helps with the neurotransmitters and getting your natural dopamine levels back up.

 

[DoctorMolecule]

Ginseng, Siberian, American and pan ax, 500mg-4grams a day