Subutex legality in europe

[Pagey]

I don't have numbers nor can I be bothered to look them up, but I do find the fact that my grandmother ended up evicted from her house because she couldn't pay the mortgage due to the cost of her now late husband having lung cancer for 2 years, more than a bit disturbing.
Health insurance in the US doesn't cover anything near as much as it does here.

 

[bingey]

Subs OTC? Let me guess, you've never ventured outside the US and imagine Europe to be a less developed and far more hedonistic version of the US? Boy are you in for a surprise...
Subutex OTC... Ffffsss

This cracked me up.

On the healthcare thing the European model is NOT sustainable. I like it but it just isn't doctors have to change either their prescription/treatment habits (ie letting people with cancer) die or their billing habits (ie confiscating your nanas house)

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

I don't have numbers nor can I be bothered to look them up, but I do find the fact that my grandmother ended up evicted from her house because she couldn't pay the mortgage due to the cost of her now late husband having lung cancer for 2 years, more than a bit disturbing.
Health insurance in the US doesn't cover anything near as much as it does here.

Well surely that depends on the level of cover you pay for? There's no hard and fast rule of what insurance of any kind covers in any jurisdiction.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

This cracked me up.

On the healthcare thing the European model is NOT sustainable. I like it but it just isn't doctors have to change either their prescription/treatment habits (ie letting people with cancer) die or their billing habits (ie confiscating your nanas house)

You realise that every country in Europe is different and that she was talking about the US when she mentioned those two things right? What changes would you suggest to the healthcare systems in which European countries?

 

[Pagey]

Well surely that depends on the level of cover you pay for? There's no hard and fast rule of what insurance of any kind covers in any jurisdiction.

...my point is that if my grandfather had gotten cancer in France, every single one of his bills would have been automatically covered entirely. I really don't feel like arguing over details like state laws, point is the US, as a general rule, has much more expensive healthcare - and on top of which, it isn't generalised - than the UK or France.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Well, you are arguing and you're not providing any evidence to back up your claim. You're using a single example to generalise to an entire market, and for some reason seem to be bringing the socialised vs private discussion in to things too which is an entirely matter different.

Anyway...let's get back on topic.

 

[Pagey]

You don't think simply the fact that the quality of their healthcare is dictated by their wealth might be a bit of a problem?

Yes, I'm bringing socialised vs. private into things, because that's the main issue here.

Nor am I using a 'single example' to generalise things. I'm taking cancer treatment as an example because it not only extends to a big portion of the population, it also serves as an example of any kind of lengthy, expensive treatment. But please, if my grandfather is the only person ever to have been affected by cancer, do let me know.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

You are bringing a whole load of other issues that are totally separate to the point of whether healthcare is more or less expensive in the US in to the equation and arguing emotively rather than rationally. The fact that in America the quality of healthcare someone receives is related to their income is totally irrelevant to the discussion of whether said healthcare costs more here or there.

Socialised vs private is not the issue at all. You pay for your healthcare in both systems, the point of contention is that whether as a whole it is more expensive in one system than the other.

You are using a single example to generalise because you didn't talk about cancer treatment as a whole, you specifically started going in to your grandparents financial difficulties as if that was somehow reason enough to extrapolate to the rest of the population when it clearly isn't. It's clear you're not arguing from a point of logic because you choose to finish of with the childish facetious comment 'if my grandfather is the only person ever to have been affected by cancer, do let me know.'.

Anyway, like I said, let's not derail this thread completely.

 

[Pagey]

It's clear you're not arguing from a point of logic because you choose to finish of with the childish facetious comment 'if my grandfather is the only person ever to have been affected by cancer, do let me know.'.

That's called irony, my dear.
I personally find it more childish to take on a condescending attitude from the get-go without actually arguing anything at all, but hey - if my age is going to be brought up once again in a discussion with you I'm not quite sure there's any point in continuing.

How about you try answering my actual points? I'm not arguing emotively, I'm using personal anecdote as an example, and it's not because I know something about it that it makes it any less valuable. Quite the contrary, I'd think.
You want facts?

A 2004 Institute of Medicine (IOM) report said: "The United States is among the few industrialized nations in the world that does not guarantee access to health care for its population."

A 2004 OECD report said: "With the exception of Mexico, Turkey, and the United States, all OECD countries had achieved universal or near-universal (at least 98.4% insured) coverage of their populations by 1990."

A 2010 report observed that lack of health insurance causes roughly 48,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. In 2007, 62.1% of filers for bankruptcies claimed high medical expenses. A 2013 study found that about 25% of all senior citizens declare bankruptcy due to medical expenses, and 43% are forced to mortgage or sell their primary residence.

Health care spending in the United States is characterized as being the most costly per person as compared to all other countries, and despite this spending, the quality of health care overall is low by some measures.

NSFW:

Look around the internet for 5 seconds and you'll find just as much proof as you need.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Like I said, let's not derail the thread. If you're genuinely interested in me responding to you points then drop me a pm.

 

[Pagey]

So once I show the facts you decide not to answer?


I've personally answered the OP's question as best I could and I don't see how we're stopping anyone else from doing so either, so...

I wouldn't bother arguing about this but you seem to have a knack for being quite condescending about me on a regular basis without ever providing any kind of real explanation for it so it would be nice for you to actually give a valuable reason as to why, this time, I'm wrong once again.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

You'll notice that I suggest we get back on topic long ago, I've put it in at least three posts. I'm not out to hijack threads and score points in front of everyone, if you genuinely want to have the discussion we can do it in private as I said.

I'm not condescending towards you, I think you're a good poster. I'm sorry you have taken anything I've posted personally, that wasn't the intention.

 

[Pagey]

^This is not at all about 'scoring points' - I'm geniunely interested in this discussion.
Will PM you.

Sorry mods.