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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

(SUBUTEX DOSAGE) How Many MG Should I Be On

J

JayJolie

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
91
So...I've had a very intense opiate addiction for roughly 4 years now. I take about 400mg Norco daily and about 10mg Klonopin. Since starting the program (I started at 8mg), I've moved up to 16mg. I'm just curious what is considered to be a high dosage? I want to be able to get my dosage to a tolerable level, where I'm beating WD's....but, I also plan on tapering down as soon as I can and totally coming off. Anyone have a lot of experience with Subutex or Bupe? I'd really appreciate any info, input, advice. And, before I leave this here let me just say, be kind with your words. This medicine has saved my life and totally turned things around for me and I am very thankful I found the program. Thank you.
 
Hey, I've been on bupe detox for roughly three months now, I stabilised on 10mg, I've had my ups and downs, some days this dosage doesn't cover me but I know a little withdrawal is progress, I was taking codeine, dihydrocodeine and morphine, in very high doses for three years. Cravings are the main worry for me as they don't get easier even with the bupe. Everyone's different so just take what you feel comfortable with, people usually say anything above 8mg is high! I know the downside to bupe is that it raises your tolerance so high, that u may not feel a prescribed opiate for a long time after detox, good luck and well done for getting some help :)
 
I'm on Bupe maintenance for 16 months, I take Zubsolv, I was taking 1 5.7mg and a half of a 5.7 mg zubsolv at 1st that supposedly is equal give or take to 12mg suboxone. I am now only taking a half of a 5.7mg Zubsolv every morning and I feel the same as I did on a much higher amount. Blocks cravings, withdrawal just the same, I find the lowest amount of Bupe best, 8mg should do you just fine. But each of our bodies are different, whatever you feel most comfortable on and keeps you from using is the proper dosage :)
 
So I dosed today at 16mg...so far, it's kept all WD symptoms at bay. I'm trying to get to that point where I can get a full 24 hours free of WD symptoms. So fingers crossed the 16 does it and I don't need to go up. Right now I'm at roughly 12 hours of feeling normal (which is SO wonderful).

My question would then be...once I get on the proper dosage that lasts 24 hours, how long should I stay at that dose before I start to taper down? I don't want to taper down so fast that I mess up and relapse. But, then again, I want to taper down as rapidly as possible in order to totally be off ALL medications.

Do any of you guys have trouble sleeping while taking this? That's my one issue...I can't sleep at night.
 
Also, if I want to get off my benzo's, will the Subutex help with WD's from that???
 
Jay, you say you had a very intense opiate addiction for years, and as did I I'll say this..every time I got on a maintenance for treating opioid addiction (methadone/buprenorphine) and got off the maintenance quickly and by quickly I mean within 1 year I always without fail went back into a horrible active addiction. Why the rush to want to be off of buprenorphine? I get that you are saying you want to be free of all meds, but until you really allow the buprenorphine treatment to do what it's supposed to do and develop other healthy activities in life and healthy behaviors there should be no rush to get off it, if it's financial I get it, bupe can be quite pricey fortunately I have good insurance now and it covers all my zubsolv 100% don't rush it brother, my advice would be to get to as low a stable dose as you can that keeps using at bay, as far as cost goes, and just give the bupe time its given me a good life back!

BTW subutex will not help in any way in withdrawing from Benzos, the only thing that will help with a Benzo withdrawal is Phenobarbital, or properly titrating down and off of a benzo with a long acting benzo ie clonazepam
 
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Oh, it's not about the money...I know my name may not imply it, but I'm a woman and my husband and I would like to have another child soon. And I just want to be off everything before we do that, you know? I agree that I don't want to rush and fail...just curious as to what the success rate is for coming off quickly. I was aiming for 8 months.
 
Hey, if you are feeling ready to make some changes and have a child by all means, start titrating down and get off the bupe, a child may be the catalyst for you to make the moves to get off all substance and live a med free life, that might change everything, I say go for it, start dosing dosing down if you feel ready, the thing about bupe is you should not feel any withdrawal symptoms from 16mg down to 2mgs, it Is when you get down to 2mgs that you should spend 40 days titrating from 2 mgs down to zero....you should never jump off at 2 mgs, you want to spend at least 40 days going from 2 mgs of bupe to zero, that's where you Ned to really do the math and dose down 25% every 4 to 7 days from 2 mgs, From 2 mgs to zero, should take you 40 days to experience the least amount of discomfort.
 
Thanks for the info. I'm still not making it a full 24 hours so I got bumped to 20mg today. I'm just worried that the higher I have to go, the longer the process to start decreasing...is this true? Or once the Norco WD's totally stop, will I be able to start decreasing?
 
I don't I don't know why 16mg of buprenorphine which is a very high amount isn't holding you. When I was using H I was doing between 2-4 grams per day and when I got off that amount of H, 8mg of Suboxone held me fine, could some of this be mental? Maybe DelRio could jump on here and help with some knowledge as he's been on Subs and seems to have a solid understanding of buprenorphine and opiates?

The higher you go on Bupe will not necessarily lengthen the taper time as I understand from personal taper experience with bupe which I am actually on a taper myself right now, I went from 8.55mg of Zubsolv which is apparently equal to 12mg of Suboxone, straight down to 2.85mg Zubsolv which is equal to 4mg of Suboxone without feeling any negative effects of withdrawal and I'm stable now on 2.85mg Zubsolv. I'd like to hear some input from DelRio or others who have god experience with Bupe to help us help you Jay. Hang in there..

Also you mention Norco withdrawals, is that the Opioid you were on before transitioning to Suboxone? If you were inducted onto Suboxone over from the Norcos, after about a week on Suboxone and no more Norcos you will experience no withdrawal from the Hydrocodone as the Suboxone is way more potent and now the Buprenorphine is strictly saturating your receptors.
 
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Maybe it is mental. I don't know. The Dr said I could possibly be just be metabolizing it faster than some people??Like today I dosed at 7:30am, started feeling a little rough by 5pm, and now at 11pm I really don't feel well. But it's like that comes and goes in spurts. I'll have some breakthrough periods from like 5pm (when I earlier said I started to feel a little bad) until somewhere by in the morning before I dose again where I'll actually come back around for a bit and feel ok. Is this unusual? I'm having a hard time getting much out of the Dr...but am supposed to have a long talk with him tomorrow. So, I don't know.
Yeah, it's Norco that I'm coming off of. I was taking (on average) 400-500mg daily. Some days more or less depending on what I could get my hands on. This has been a 4 year addiction.
 
You could be a fast metaboliser of bupe, there are blood draws 2 times in one day, peak and trough buprenorphine blood plasma levels to confirm if you are in fact a fast metaboliser or not, that test is something you may want to speak to your bupe doc about...

Clarify for me Jay, 400 to 500 mg of actual Hydrocodone? Cause that's alot of Acetaminophen in the Norco! Norco are 10 mg Hydrocodone/325 mg Acetaminophen, how many Norco pills per day?

Now let me suggest something else, since you would like to have a child, you could switch to Methadone and stay on methadone while pregnant and have the child. I have a few friends of mine, women who have been on methadone and had absolutely healthy children. I was on Methadone maintenance for a year and plenty of pregnant women were at my clinic, after finding out they were pregnant they had to quit their rx drug or heroin and get on methadone for the remainder of their pregnancy, no issues. You could even go to a methadone clinic and just simply do a 30 day taper and not stay on a maintenance. I'm just trying to give you some options Jay, and please y'all anyone else with any experience or info, help please jump in on this thread try to help put here.
 
So, yeah, I'm being accurate on the meds. Averaging 50 10mg Norco a day. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I can only imagine the damage all that acetaminophen did to my liver.
I can't do the methadone, I can't function in it. I'll get sick from it, get super sleepy, I'll feel like I could nod out at any time. And, not that I have ANYTHING, against pregnant women that take methadone while pregnant, I just can't do that. I want to be totally free of everything by the time we decide to get pregnant. Our first daughter is 4 now and I'd like to be able to be drug free within a year from now to start trying for another.
I really appreciate you talking to me so much. I've been having a hard time getting much info anywhere else!
 
Finally on a dose that's getting me through 24 hours...I'm at 24mg. I know that's high!! The plan is to stay at this dose for 2 weeks and then start in the slow taper down. My counselor says she's had more success with her people coming off the Bupe over the methadone. Not sure exactly why, but it gives me a little more hope.
I'm prescribed Klonopin for anxiety. I've also been working on cutting that out by myself. I was taking my allotted 4mg every day. Now I'll take one of my 2mg pills like once in every 3-4 days. Hopefully I can taper off of it and not get sick or go through a lot of WD's from weaning off the benzo's. I still have 70 2mg Klonopin left. Do you guys think that's enough to get through the tapering and weaning off process?? I don't want to do anything stupid and get my body in a mess. I'm just really serious about my road to recovery. Once I make up my mind, it's pretty much a done deal. I just want to be sure I'm making the best decisions. Going to the clinic for help was hard for me. I felt like I was just trading one drug for another. But after doing a lot of research, talking to multiple doctors, and talking to my counselor...I feel like I'm doing the right thing.
 
You are absolutely doing the right thing Jay! I'm very proud of you that you are taking the necessary steps into recovery, I'm also happily you got to a dose that I'd holding you steady :)

You are right you don't want anything to do with benzo withdrawal that's a whole different animal, but you are on a good benzo to taper off from as Clonazepam has a long half life, you absolutely can taper off with 70 2 mg clonazepam, just keep skipping days like you have been, then start taking 1mg, then a quarter of a pill which is .5. I have bad anxiety and ptsd and prescribed xanax, I only take 1mg a day but it absolutely helps.

Keep us updated on your process of when you start tapering off the Suboxone I'd like to know how it goes and what your doctor says in regards to how they will have you taper.
 
I will. This place has been my lifeline for everything! Just being able to ask questions and discuss recovery openly is so fantastic!
 
Just to shortly sum up my situation, so that you can compare: I was on 150 mg of oxycodone each day plus different dosages of fentanyl and a mix of different benzodiazepines.

Before I started on Suboxone I gradually lowered my oxycodone dosage by removing 20 mg each day. 130 - 110 - 90 - 70 - 50 - 30 - 10 and the following day I started on 16 mg of Suboxone. The relatively fast lowering of dosage resulted in some withdrawal symptoms also when I started at the 16 mg of Suboxone. But relatively fast I stabilized on this amount without feeling withdrawal symptoms. From there I lowered my dosage by 2 mg until I got to 10 mg of suboxone. To make the 24 hours in the beginning and took 8 mg in the morning and 8 mg in the evening around 6 o'clock. Dosing two times was really nice for me. Before I did that I felt bad during nighttime.

From here I can't really tell you more about suboxone as I switched to methadone. Suboxone wasn't helping with the psychological "need" for opiates I felt. Methadone did. I am in no way saying you should switch - just to make that clear. Suboxone is in many ways safer and better than methadone when it comes to treating addiction in my opinion. It just didn't work for me and I would have relapsed if I didn't change.

My point is, that you should be aware of the signals you body and mind are giving you. Find the dosage where you feel good. But maybe try the method of dosing two times each day to see if that will help you as well and result in a need for a lower dosage than if you take everything at once. Do not rush the gradual dosage lowering, it was my experience that too fast a reduction increased my need to opiates thus increasing the risk for relapse. You should be careful with reducing the dosage if you doesn't feel prepared about it. Do not force yourself, but attempt to make a schedule where your write down when you should lower your dosage all the way to 0 mg. Follow that as long as you feel comfortable. I have attempted this before where I just wanted the tapering to go as fast as possible, and that resulted in relapses for me. So in my case, time was essential. I would rather by on a substitution in a long time than tapering very fast and increasing the risk of relapse exponentially.

Regarding the benzodiazepines. My favorites before I started treatment was clonazepam and etizolam. I switched to diazepam and started on 15 mg each day in one dosage. After a couple on month I reduced the dosage from 15 mg to 10 mg. After month from 10 mg to 7,5 mg and again after a month from 7,5 mg to 5 mg. I could feel anything withdrawal wise doing it like this. And to be honest I think I could have easily skipped the 7,5 mg and gone directly to 5 mg. Since then I have stay on 5 mg for maybe half a year. When i feel comfortable I think I will lower the dosage to 2,5 mg and stay there for a long time as well before reducing the dosage to zero. I chose diazepam due to it long half-life which will result in a much more stable dosage all the time and avoid big increases and big decreases which a shorter acting benzo will result in. Stability is everything for my mood, as soon as I use stuff that interfere with this stability, my mood reacts negatively. But is seems like you have already found the benzo that works for you. So do not make any changes unless it becomes necessary. I tried several benzo's before I landed on diazepam and stayed here. I you feel increases in anxiety or something and feel the need to redose several times a day you should consider changing. For me clonazepam was too "euphoric" right when I took it to make it work. I felt the need to redose way to often. Euphoric is exactly the right word, but it's the closest I can come to a description. I think I felt euphoric due to a huge decrease in anxiety right when I took it.

This is my story and the advices here are based on my experience. Nothing more. Be aware of this when you read the post and make your own sense of it. I wish you good luck with your journey. It seems like you are doing really well. This is nice to hear. Wellbeing is important in this process.
 
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The only problem with the riding is that I have to go to a clinic every day to do it. So I don't have the option to split my dose up for morning and evening.
 
Ah you are going to a clinic everyday to dose your suboxone, just make sure that when they taper you off they know to not just drop you at 2mgs, alot of clinics do that and it is still way too high a dose to jump off from, just be clear with them about how they reduce from 2mg to 0mg
 
16mg subutex is a pretty high dose ...IME subutex is stronger than suboxone because of the lack of naloxone cancelling out the effects. I can feel subutex a little if I do the same/equivalent amount of it to the zubsolv I'm prescribed but there is NO way I will ever feel anything at all off suboxone/zubsolv no matter how much I do. I started out on 14mg suboxone films taken not all at once, 1 8mg film in the morning and 1/4s throughout the day, which kept my w/ds under control in the beginning, w/in a month or so I had tapered down to 8mg films 1x a day and held steady there for a while. I tried to taper to 4mg 1x a day and while the physical withdrawals were nothing I became suicidally depressed (did in fact try to kill myself) and my anxiety was crippling me even more than usual, so we went back up to 8mg which got that under control. but shortly after I relapsed and after that relapse my cravings were so damn out of control I couldn't keep myself clean for more than 3-4 weeks at a time, so we went up to 12mg films which have since kept my cravings under control. I am now on 8.6mg zubsolv (equivalent to 12mg suboxone because of zubsolv's higher bioavailability) which I greatly prefer to suboxone for several reasons, and have been holding steady at that dose for quite a while.
while it theoretically would be good to be off bupe I do not see myself trying to taper off any time soon. I am just too big of a mess mentally and would not be able to handle it. if I ever do try to get off of it I would probably go down as low as I could tolerate on my own then go into some kind of rehab/long term detox facility and have them help me finishing tapering off/detoxing from it. I do not think I could do it on my own w/o relapsing big time or ending up baker acted. that's my stupidly addictive personality for you. I am a true sub junkie (some people say maintenance programs just allow you to replace one addiction for another and while I strongly disagree that's true for all or even the majority of people it is definitely true for me. but my bupe addiction allows me to be much closer to functional than a heroin or pill addiction so to me it's a good trade off) and completely dependent on it to function day to day.

I would say to avoid this trap try to taper off completely as quickly as possible -- w/in the first 6 months. best of luck.
 
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