Alcohol Substitute for Alcohol in Social Situations?

[squaticat]

Hey all,

So, as a college student, social situations and parties are a huge part of campus life. Obviously, so is drinking. As someone who has moderate social anxiety, I have a very hard time being in these kind of situations while sober. I usually end up standing against the wall watching people have fun. I'm going into my senior year, and I'd really like to be able to get out more, so I'm looking into other options.

Don't get me wrong: I love drinking. I love being drunk, as it kills the anxiety and I get to have a good time. What I don't love is the hangover. It's unfortunate that the only way for me to enjoy myself in social situations comes with a price-tag of a day of sitting in front of a toilet. I don't usually drink to excess either. By the time I drink enough to be tipsy, I can pretty much guarantee that I'll be miserable the next day. My hangovers are far worse than anything I have any right to expect.

Anyway, I'm looking for a social lubricant that has similar inhibition-reducing properties without the debilitating side effects. Weed is great for nights where you just want to chill with friends, but it doesn't really do it for going out and meeting people. I can't say that I've tried taking nothing but Xanax and going out, but that'll probably be my next shot. Things like Klonopin are also an option that I'm exploring.

Any other ideas? There's literally nothing I can't get my hands on, so I'm not worried about that. Not so much worried about price either. Thanks as always for the suggestions.

 

[Screaming_Skull]

Check out phenibut... Will make you very social. Just dnt use more than twice a week or the everything is awesome feeling will go away. Also physical dependence, but read up on it and get some.

 

[squaticat]

Ok, phenibut. Recommended dosage? 140lbs. Also, what does it combine well with? I've read caffeine, but would taking with a drink or two enhance the effects?

 

[SS373dOH]

Well we can't really recommend anything illegal, so phenny works lol. But you shouldn't drink on it, and it can cause hangovers in its self.. You have to learn to drink better, to avoid hangover.. E.g. drink after a meal, stick to one type of alcohol, stay hydrated ect. ect.. Your best bet is to just stick to beer, avoid the hard stuff.

- Hopeless

 

[Mycophile]

As someone else with social anxiety I feel your pain, and the good news is that there are a number of drugs which can help social anxiety that you should be able to get your hands on.

The following are the ones that have helped me in different ways (other than alcohol of course):

Klonopin: I have a Klonopin prescription and have been taking it now for over 12 years even though most people say long term use is bad, and it's true that there are possible long term side effects from prolonged use, but it helps me enough that I'm willing to take them.

So with Klonopin the way it personally effects me is that it helps some of my social anxiety go away so that I'm not OVERLY uncomfortable but it doesn't make me MORE social in the same way alcohol does.

Like basically, when I don't have Klonopin the main form my social anxiety takes is that I become EXTREMELY uncomfortable with eye contact, so much that it is very difficult to go anywhere.

So Klonopin makes it so I almost never have any of the eye contact-anxiety, HOWEVER, it doesn't make me more talkative or more outgoing the way alcohol and some of the other drugs on my list do.

Basically, imagine my anxiety is rated on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is my most anxious and the state in which I am having HORRIBLE eye contact anxiety, and 10 is where I am SUPER outgoing, to the point where I am a social animal and no one would even know I'm an introvert.

So if I take my normal dose of Klonopin I'm at a 5, where I am basically just normal, no extra anxiety HOWEVER I'm not MORE social.


BUT there ARE people who react differently and get SUPER social on Klonopin.

Everyone reacts differently and also there are other benzos related to it like Xanax, Lorazapam, Valium, etc and they are all different.

I've only ever taken Klonopin or Lorazapam and they both do the same thing for me--lessen the anxiety but don't make me MORE social.

However, I've heard many people say that Xanax is the one that is most likely to make you MORE social, but your mileage may vary.


2) Kratom--Now Kratom makes me MORE social and completely OBLITERATES both my eye contact anxiety, any other social anxiety I might have AND even gets rid of my GENERALIZED anxiety where I worry about shit that's not social and that is something that even Klonopin can't do.

It's a great drug and I highly recommend it.

It's an opioid so it is somewhat addictive, but you'd probably find that ANY opioid/opiate whether it's Kratom, Vicodin, Oxycodone/Oxycontin, Codeine etc (it's obviously better of that you don't do drugs like Heroin or Fentanyl...) will probably get rid of your anxiety.

3) as the poster above me mentioned, Phenibut is also good for anxiety but it's VERY addictive if you take it more than like 2 days a week and can lead to HELLISH withdrawals if abused.

But if you don't use more than twice a week and stay in the recommended dosage guidelines it can be extremely helpful for social anxiety and like Kratom, it also makes me MORE sociable and talkative, but not as much as Kratom (and the two are GREAT combined).

In fact, Phenibut is the most closely related to drug to alcohol in that both act on the GABA B receptors whereas benzos like Klonopin and Xanax act on the GABA A receptors.

In fact, I'm on Phenibut right now.



4) Prolintane: this is an obscure stimulant you might not be able to find, but it CAN potentially make me more talkative socially IF I use just the right dosage.

5) Dexadrine: Similar in it's effect to Prolintane in being able to sometimes make me more sociable and talkative.

6) Kava Kava: SOME people say this can help socially but I've never been able to get high off of it alone though I find it to intensify some other highs.

Much like Phenibut and Alcohol, Kava also works on the GABA B receptors.


7) Valerian Root: I've never used it for social anxiety, but it is somewhat helpful to help me fall asleep and relaxes me. I definitely think that used in LARGE doses it could potentially be mildly helpful for social anxiety, but it's not very strong.

It also acts on GABA B receptors just like Alcohol, Phenibut and Kava.


8 L-Theanine: This is the calming agent that is in Green Tea/Tea and is a little stronger than Valerian but it's still not very strong.

However, it does give me a very mild and pleasant buzz and make me SLIGHTLY less anxious and the more you use the larger the effect would probably be.


So those are the ones I personally have used, but there are all sorts of others that could help like maybe: Balcofen, Neurontin, Gabapentin, Lyrica/Pregabalin, and again, any benzo, anything that acts on GABA A or GABA B receptors, and any kind of opioid/opiate.


Of all of these, I would most strongly recommend Klonopin, Kratom and Phenibut.

Out of any cocktail I ever used in my life the one that made me the most SUPER social (NOT including alcohol), basically a 9 or 10 out of 10 on my scale, would be when I have combined Klonopin, Kratom, Phenibut, Prolintane, L-Theanine and Caffeine (and my daily dose of Lexapro which I find helps more for my depression that anxiety).

Talk about a super social combo.

Also, never underestimate the impact that a really hard workout can have on your social anxiety.

I'm MUCH less anxious if I have had a hard workout within a few hours before socializing, and they say that exercise's positive effects on anxiety and mood can be felt for up to 12 hours after a workout and I personally have found that to be true.


But overall if I had to tell you which out of all of these drugs WITHOUT being combined with another makes me the MOST sociable, talkative and relaxed at the same time it would be Kratom in first place but Klonopin is the most reliable in terms of each dose lasting up to 12 hours and it's effects not varying as much as Kratom's.

 

[Mycophile]

Well we can't really recommend anything illegal, so phenny works lol. But you shouldn't drink on it, and it can cause hangovers in its self.. You have to learn to drink better, to avoid hangover.. E.g. drink after a meal, stick to one type of alcohol, stay hydrated ect. ect.. Your best bet is to just stick to beer, avoid the hard stuff.

- Hopeless

There are so many other legal options, either OTC or found online or at worst available through prescription, that I don't know why you'd say he should just stick to beer.

I have also not ever found Phenibut to cause hangovers and generally feel even BETTER the day after taking it as it has a bit of an afterglow and can help one get a good night's sleep for reasons that I forget but which have been confirmed scientifically.

 

[squaticat]

Wow guys, thanks for the wealth of information. It's given me a lot to look into.

 

[squaticat]

Ok, so let's say I want to combine Kratom and Phenibut. Recommended dosage for each? And for the Kratom, any suggestions on which vein, or would it be best to just get a sample pack?

 

[Mycophile]

Ok, so let's say I want to combine Kratom and Phenibut. Recommended dosage for each? And for the Kratom, any suggestions on which vein, or would it be best to just get a sample pack?

GREAT combo, I was on it today in fact and I use this combo most weekends these days.

Well your dosage will depend on your tolerance to both (and possibly your size, I'm not sure how much that matters though)..., the strength and quality of the product, and it also just depends on each individual as some people just naturally need more than others.

Your tolerance will matter more for the Kratom though I think as most of the time Phenibut doses seems steadier and more consistent.


First off, do you use any opioids or opiates of any kind these days??

If not, then you will probably start off not needing a whole lot of Kratom if it is quality Kratom, but still it will be hard to say how much.

Like now I use MASSIVE amounts because my tolerance is so high and I wasn't smart about keeping it low early on.


Nevertheless, when I first used Kratom 2 years ago I only needed about 6 grams to get high because I never used any opioids, but really it will be hard to say.

My favorite veins are Green Malaysian and Bali but it depends on vendor and in reality IMO a lot of the veins are very similar but some people feel that they are very different.

The consensus is that red veins are most sedating, white veins most stimulating and green veins in the middle so it depends on what you want.

If you don't know what kind you like if you've never done Kratom then a sampler pack might not be a bad idea or you could just buy a little of each.

If you were to buy one of each I'd recommend Green Malaysian for a green vein, Bali for a red vein and Maeng Da for a white vein.


But again, you aren't going to know what a good dosage is till you try it.

I recommend you start at 5 grams and if that isn't enough than just go up from there.

I don't think it's possible to overdose on Kratom so you aren't in any danger of just taking however much you want and the worst that will happen is you might fall asleep if you dose too high.


For Phenibut they recommend never to go higher than 4,000mgs in a single day/dose, but that's a VERY high dose for anyone who hasn't taken it many times and if I take that dose all at once i will be extremely tired and not like it or have to go to sleep.

ME PERSONALLY I like to dose about 3,200mgs for my first dose but my tolerance is higher so again, you won't know till you try it.


I don't remember what my first Phenibut dosage was when I first started, but I guess I'd recommend you start between 500mgs---1,000mgs.

There's more of a problem with taking too much Phenibut than too much Kratom cause it's a bit stronger of a substance but you will still be safe at under 4,000mgs.

But it takes like 2 hours or more sometimes for Phenibut to even kick in so if you want to start extremely carefully you'd have to like take 500mgs maybe, then wait 2 hours and see how you feel, and if you aren't really super sedated than try another couple hundred or whatever.


Again, there's really no single answer.

We can't recommend vendors though, but quality also has to do with what dosage you'll want, and also you'll need a lower dosage of Kratom if you have any empty stomach or not much food in you and some posters like to not eat on Kratom and take it on an empty stomach to get a stronger effect but I don't like to do that personally and I just eat when I want to and then use however high a dose I need.

I don't like starving myself.


So yeah, it's all trial and error man and you'll figure out what doses work for you as you go along.

But to be EXTREMELY cautious and take it SUPER slow, for harm reduction purposes I guess I'll recommend a starting dose of 5 grams of Kratom and 500mgs of Phenibut and then if you want more of each then just use your own common sense.

 

[squaticat]

Cool, cool. Just ordered some red bali, yellow bali, and some green malay. I'll give each of them a try and see how it goes. I have no opiate tolerance at all, so I should be good to go there. I also ordered some phenibut, so that'll be interesting to mix in there as well.

I'll probably try each of them seperately to get a feel for the effects, and then try mixing them. I'm patient; I'd rather be able to appreciate the effects of each before going for broke and mixing them all.

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

 

[Runtoparadise]

Lyrica is often prescribed nowadays for social anxiety & given you have no tolerance & it's not a controlled substance, I don't think you'd have to look too far to get your hands on some.

Personally, I love it for multitude of reasons, not just the lovely 'don't give a shit about anything' feeling or the similarities to alcohol, the chattyness & slightly wobbly feels are awesome.

Utse, there's plenty of threads re: lyrica (pregabalin).

Rtp

 

[Mycophile]

Cool, cool. Just ordered some red bali, yellow bali, and some green malay. I'll give each of them a try and see how it goes. I have no opiate tolerance at all, so I should be good to go there. I also ordered some phenibut, so that'll be interesting to mix in there as well.

I'll probably try each of them seperately to get a feel for the effects, and then try mixing them. I'm patient; I'd rather be able to appreciate the effects of each before going for broke and mixing them all.

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

That's a good idea to try Kratom and Phenibut seperately at first so you get to know the effects of each by itself because they are quite different from eachother.

One thing to take note of with Kratom is that although not everyone responds to it the same way I do, I find it almost IMPOSSIBLE to sleep for many hours after the Kratom has worn off.

The Kratom high lasts about 4 hours and my rule of thumb of myself is that I try to have the Kratom wear off at least six hours before I want to go to sleep.

So like, it takes it about 45 mins to kick in, so if I want to be able to fall asleep at 2:00AM I will take my last dose no later than about 3:00PM.

Otherwise, I will just be lying in bed wide awake but not even high.

However, not everyone gets that effect and some people can sleep on it.

If you need any other advice on Kratom or Phenibut let me know.

There are other things to consider like how you want to take the Kratom, toss n' wash or making a tea or whatever, the fact that it makes some people nauseated, that you probably don't want to drink on Kratom (I do sometimes but most people don't like it) and that you shouldn't drink much on Phenibut, etc etc.

Just little things you might want to know about these drugs.

Also, though we can't discuss vendors I don't know what vendor you went through but keep in mind that some vendors suck and some Kratom sucks and is weak so if you get a bad product try buying from someone else.

Phenibut is probably more likely to usually be the same thing since it's synthetic.

And veins are not usually consistent across vendors so some vendor's green malay may really be more like another vendor's bali than their green malay or whatever.

 

[Bliss26]

I would be really careful with many of these suggestions. I don't mean to minimize your social anxiety- I have it too. But I want to let you know that a great many members here are addicted to benzos and pseudo benzos (like phenibut) . Phenibut is also easy to over dose, and for many people is very moreish.

If alcohol works well aside from the hangover, try having a glass of water or other alcohol free beverage for each drink you have, alternating them. A hangover comes from dehydration. I have hangovers when I don't alternate bevvies. I think it's potentially the most effective (aside from benzos) with the best risk- benefit ratio.

 

[Bal0n]

Eating something just a little bit too salty and drinking a couple of glasses of water after a night of drinking works really well for me. I guess the increased salt intake makes you retain more water, reducing dehydration from alcohol. Some of the earlier mentioned suggestions sure seem to be of potential help, but there's a significant risk for abuse. You probably don't see yourself drinking a couple of glasses of alcohol before leaving the house every time, while this can be very tempting with a number of the aforementioned compounds.

 

[EphemeralOutlet141]

Kratom kratom kratom kratom

Completely legal, and small doses work better for anxiety than benzos do (IME).

 

[keeping]

if you can't handle the hangover wait til you get you're first comedown. ever heard of rebound anxiety? a lot of the suggestions others have suggested will give you madddd anxiety on the comedown. i would say try weed and xanax, but don't make a habit of the xanax, cause if you find hangovers to be that bad wait til you're in ​withdrawal

 

[SS373dOH]

There are so many other legal options, either OTC or found online or at worst available through prescription, that I don't know why you'd say he should just stick to beer.

I was saying stick to beer opposed to drinking hard alcohol.. you know to avoid hangover.

^But the above poster is right, most of the "legal" stuff you can get will create their own problems, as I was alluding to with phen'.. Also Kratom causes dependecy and wd symptoms, benzo's cause rebound symptoms ect, ect,..

I know OP just wants to enjoy senior year, but if they do find that miracle drug, they will be hooked. They'll become so acustom to experiencing social situations with it, that they will not be able to function without. I say first world problems, suck it up, and enjoy the party..



- Hopeless

 

[JahSEEuS]

cocaine always works for me

adderall is good too, and is usually readily available either from your Doctor or on campus.

I'd rather go the adderall prescription route over benzo's as benzo's make me sleepy and less social, plus if you do have a drink or 2 on benzos, such as klonopin, it can have very negative consequence. Adderall and drinking on the other hand are quite a good combo

 

[Bliss26]

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

cocaine, adderall (prescription Coke), and other stims will not be pretty for OP on the way back down. Also, stims for someone with chronic elevated anxiety, I think, is a mistake. Prescription wise benzos are the best bet-- but the problem OP is the more you need them, the more of a lifesaver they are, and the more reliant you become, until dependence. Once dependence rolls up, benzos are a real bear to kick. Anxiety many times worse than you have currently. The rebound effect. Not to mention the problem of WD being potentially fatal.

 

[SS373dOH]

cocaine always works for me

adderall is good too, and is usually readily available either from your Doctor or on campus.

I'd rather go the adderall prescription route over benzo's as benzo's make me sleepy and less social, plus if you do have a drink or 2 on benzos, such as klonopin, it can have very negative consequence. Adderall and drinking on the other hand are quite a good combo

Addys do work, but for some reason coc makes me soo damn antisocial! maybe it's 'cause I'm in the car, closet, bathroom the whole time.. I get Lockjaw if I'm really going, try talking like that...


-hs