Bupe Subs get me so high?

[Ticket]

Throw them out dude,why are you keeping them,just in case you relapse? They are in themselves a cause for relapse.

Yeah I know. The three unopened ones I'm trading with a mate for some shrooms, I had 2mg left of the last 8mg strip I'd been splitting to taper and if I'm being totally honest, I wasn't ready to chuck it coz I just wanted to experience a high again 'one more time', years on bupe, no high at all in that time... I dunno, it was easy to justify to myself, like it always is. My plan was to just finish that strip and be done with it all... But after taking 1mg a little over a fortnight ago and puking my guts up nodding out unpleasantly all damn day, I've soured on the idea. I waited another week and tried a quarter mg and that was nice for afew hours but eventually I was like 'still not worth it' and the next day I just felt so flat and numb and depressed, made me really appreciate the feeling of sobriety tbh. Like being sober was genuinely a preferable mental state given the bleh feeling having that little warm high got me. So I chucked the remaining 1.something mg and am happy to see the others go, looking forward to a good shroom trip over New Years though!

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Yeah I've read that there is a cieling cap with Suboxone isn't there? 24 mg is enough to catch a wooly mammoth or Thomas the train high enough to nod out at a retail job. It's like in reference to heroin stronger than what heroin ever was lol! I mean I'm not judging at all, I literally don't know much about sub treatment personally. To me from what I've read anything beyond 8 mg of Suboxone is considered excessive. At that point shouldn't one just go on methadone?

The first time I took Subutex was only 1 milligram and I legitimately was so beyond high that I thought I had overdosed. Then while struggling to keep my eyes open under the influence, I panicked and googled what typical doses were and realized that I was nowhere near close. I think that personally subs just affect me far strongly than the average population for whatever reason--or because my brain is not used to so many receptors at once being affected I felt the effects profoundly. At the time I had decent tolerance to opioids and kratom already so I'm still puzzled by it. A ton of sub users say that there isn't a high for them and I do believe them. To be honest I wish I had some on me I've tried to tell people about it but they didn't believe me.

Snorting or shooting up subs to get high just seems counterproductive to its original intention--so you might as well just be using unless it's to be financially cheaper I dunno. Maybe TMI but I slept with a cutie later the same day a couple of hours after taking it and I couldn't finish I would personally hate that aspect of being on subs if I were prescribed them. It does seem like they can affect male performance in bed too. I wonder if others have had that issue.

 

[I_Hate_This_Place]

For an opiate naive person,buprenorphine is a really strong opiate. I first tried buprenorphine as a Temgesic tablet 2mg which was dropped into a pint of beer,after finishing beer I could feel it,even though they're sublingual it must have absorbed through the mouth lining. I was buzzing as much as chasing a £10 bag of smack.

When I became addicted to heroin and was put on buprenorphine at 32mg,the maximum dose I suffered for a day as the heroin was knocked out the receptors. After that I never felt the buprenorphine but wasn't dope sick and could get on with life. It was only when I reduced to below 1mg that I felt it again,nowhere near like the first time with the temgesic. My Doctor told me that buprenorphine at very low doses works more like traditional agonists and that's why the patches are in microgram doses for pain management.

Buprenorphine without tolerance is IMO as strong if not stronger than heroin.

You're absolutely right.

"Depending upon the formulation and the pain model, buprenorphine has been reported to be approximately 25-100 times more potent than morphine." - Lost the link to the study in a browser window crash

As such it's actually way stronger than Heroin. Not just a little; a lot stronger. Just a completely different effect / receptor profile. Heroin (diacetylmorphine) is actually not an overly strong opioid when compared with a lot of the synthetics. So even though bupeprenorphine has bad sublingual & even worse oral bioavailability it will still fuck up a opiate naive individual do to it's potency.

I had a friend that go sick as hell after luckily swallowing a Suboxone tablet back in the day. He was lucky he swallowed it being opiate naive. Sublingual or snorted; he would have been in an even worse world of hurt. He was puking for like 3 days as it was. So it can be dangerous for those opiate naive.

With a tolerance I don't find it to have much of a "traditional" opiate type effect.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As for the precipitated withdrawal; I agree it varies person to person. I've had a decent bit of experience with it & it can vary a lot. I find the C.O.W.S. to be a joke; personally. I've precipitated when I was way over the don't even worry score. Other times I was a quarter of the maybe it's time but you're cutting it close time. I was fine.

So it definitively varies a LOT. I find that the amount of buprenorphine & duration of time you've been using it make a difference as well. I.E. It's much easier to switch off bupe for a day, do a full agonist say "dope" for a day & then switch back to bupe the day after. I actually just did so today.

After being on Suboxone for about 10 days (24mg the first day reduced to 4mg per day) I had zero issues besides some minor withdrawal symptoms when re-inducting with 2mg's. As I did "dope" (I know there's no heroin in what goes around; usually fentanyl analogues. In this case possible U4 series based on being pinkish) after having made a mistake of using magnesium citrate thinking I was still having a GI issue & not having waited long enough on another medication.

Regardless of the reasoning; it worked fine. It fixed my GI issue; got me nodding out in fact. That was less than 24 hours from my Suboxone dose. After my last dose of "dope" I ate, slept & re-inducted about 13 hours later. As I said; besides the minor discomfort while it was coming on I'm fine now. Just an anecdotal example to show the differences from person to person & such.

 

[I_Hate_This_Place]

Yeah I've read that there is a cieling cap with Suboxone isn't there? 24 mg is enough to catch a wooly mammoth or Thomas the train high enough to nod out at a retail job. It's like in reference to heroin stronger than what heroin ever was lol! I mean I'm not judging at all, I literally don't know much about sub treatment personally. To me from what I've read anything beyond 8 mg of Suboxone is considered excessive. At that point shouldn't one just go on methadone?

The first time I took Subutex was only 1 milligram and I legitimately was so beyond high that I thought I had overdosed. Then while struggling to keep my eyes open under the influence, I panicked and googled what typical doses were and realized that I was nowhere near close. I think that personally subs just affect me far strongly than the average population for whatever reason--or because my brain is not used to so many receptors at once being affected I felt the effects profoundly. At the time I had decent tolerance to opioids and kratom already so I'm still puzzled by it. A ton of sub users say that there isn't a high for them and I do believe them. To be honest I wish I had some on me I've tried to tell people about it but they didn't believe me.

Snorting or shooting up subs to get high just seems counterproductive to its original intention--so you might as well just be using unless it's to be financially cheaper I dunno. Maybe TMI but I slept with a cutie later the same day a couple of hours after taking it and I couldn't finish I would personally hate that aspect of being on subs if I were prescribed them. It does seem like they can affect male performance in bed too. I wonder if others have had that issue.

Actually 24mg is the ceiling effect level but I for one wouldn't feel a thing from it. Though as you mentioned I prefer Methadone. Though my reasons for usage include pain management which bupeprenorphine isn't quite as useful for despite being 25-100 times as strong as morphine. Different receptor profile of effects. I digress. My apologies.

I just had to double post to reply to the last part of your post. I don't have time to reply to the rest ATM; sadly enough.

There is no such thing as "counterproductive to its original intention" when it comes to a substance. Bupeprenorphine is just a collection of molecules. It isn't good or evil; it's just a substance.

The only original intention I can think of is if you're referring to Suboxone itself? If so the "original intention" would be to patent troll & make a shit ton of money by Reckitt Bensicker. The nalaxone does nothing as the bupeprenorphine has a higher binding affinity. It was a marketing move. Just google the company & settlement.

I just wanted to clear that up real quick. I'm autistic (Asperger's) & am all about facts / logic. Drives me nuts when I see misinformation. A terrible trait in this day & age of "fake news" but again I digress. I hope that helps clarify things.

No offense intended BTW! I also don't have the best communication skills. As such I figured I'd mention it as sometimes my intentions of helping spread information are taken different than I intend them!

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Haha I'm wicked hard to offend it's cool. So that explains why I got so damn high. Kinda makes me want to heroin--jk it makes me want to stay the hell away from it.

There's so much information from people on subs that just makes me think they still haven't found a solid solution to the "epidemic." There's way too many variables that just make subs unreliable to treat every patient across the board. It's either strong enough to make someone drool or too weak to help others from feeling dopesick. Seems like the closest attempt to getting closer though! They're definitely working on new stuff I can feel it. I just want to stop playing fire with oxy/kratom 100%. All my attempts lead to miserable sobriety runs and an endless cycle of relapsing. I really want to be clean but it's always seem to won so far. Was just out of the woods and truly believed it was over until I touched it again and somehow my habits became worse than ever before. Kind of makes you feel like absolute shit until the pleasure part kicks in.

 

[Ticket]

Those mega doses seem to be about dosing for multiple days. You can overload your receptors but they can only hold so much, so once they're saturated the rest is basically just hanging around waiting it's turn and it blocks other opiates while maintaining you for longer. When I was on 8mg a day I'd just take 32mg twice a week because I bloody hated that fucking bug spray fake citrus taste, and if I accidentally swallowed any spit at all the naloxone would make me puke (just sensitive to it I guess, not in any opiate related way, it just makes me crook by itself), and it meant I could forget about dosing or the ups and downs for a few days in a row, which was invaluable to retraining my mind and habits to not always be watching the clock for the impending withdrawals and when it was time to dose next. I could just get on with it. I had been recommended to go on methadone, but methadone is controlled so much tighter than bupe, daily dosing down at the methadone clinic... I was on weekly pick ups of my subs and I felt shackled by that, I wasn't about to cuff myself to the daily methadone clinic grind. Plus, subs gave me some plausible deniability when someone who didn't know my business asked, since it's pretty unknown among non drugs users and is legit used for pain. As well as mega doses giving me more wiggle room coz even when WDs started 3.5/4 days later, they wouldn't get BAD bad for another 12-24hrs rather than the 'oh god I feel them starting' race against the clock to get dosed with smaller doses or shorter acting opiates. 8mg gave me less side effects, like sweating and nausea, but with a mega dose I only had to deal with them for a few rough hours twice a week rather than a few vaguely shit hours every single day. Started feeling more 'classic opiate' kinda feels when I got below 2mg, but then I switched to Norspan patches for the tail end of my taper and that kept me level and functional af without any side effects or opiate feels at all, god damn that was a good step in coming off. My sub doc wanted me to jump from 2mg and I naively tried it for like a day... Heeeelllllll no bitch absolutely not! That's a fucking unfathomable jump, can't believe so many doctors are basically making it up as they go along when it comes to bupe. It is crazy powerful stuff with some truly unique and bizarre pharmacodynamics.

 

[Ticket]

GetMeOutOfThisCRAP - I had exactly that kind of experience, I just could not experience happiness in sobriety, it was miserable, my brain was obviously fried from such long term opiate abuse and I couldn't make my own happiness. That was worse than the physical withdrawals often and would have me right back to using since the world was so fucking flat and grey. Once I'd become accustomed to bupe and was no longer catching any buzz from it, I just always felt sober but I felt normal, and that's what kept me on it and compliant for so long. It was an opportunity to heal my brain and rewire my habits and reward pathways, while even taking away the option of going and getting high if I'd wanted to. I'm glad I went on it, I just wish I knew more about it beforehand and during. But some things you can only know experientially, bupe is a hard drug to know from the outside. A lot of people shit on long term maintenance, but for me it truly saved my life, total game changer, and I think I needed that long of not using anything else and never getting high but never having to worry about the depression or being dopesick. Three stages - Changing from junkie to functional addict to get your life and head back together, then coming off and going through acute withdrawals, then the long process of getting through PAWS but with the upper hand of having rewired your brain to not compulsively drug seek and having already removed those habits and associations. It's a long process, but the only way out is through, and if that's what it takes to break the cycle then so be it, that few years will pass anyway but if you don't do something about your habit you'll still be in the same place then as now and isn't that a depressing prospect.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I know what you mean. Everyone told me how great my life would be after I quit... 5 months later and I still felt a 4.5/10 day after day. Started to abuse my adderall script to feel better and well that made the depression worse lol.

I don't know where my addiction leads. Rn my doses aren't substantial and I suppose that's a good thing but I'm at a road block for sure. I'm not sure how many people there are out there who have quit with willpower alone but kudos to them. Flat and grey is the best way to describe how I felt. It wasn't apparent depression, just a lack of any emotions at all besides anxiety imo.

 

[Ticket]

Yeah, no 'woe is me, life is pain', just... Nothing nothing nothing robotically going about your day kinda passively observing life because you can't feel anything. Can't get no satisfaction haha. It's so hard to get through especially when you tend towards substance use, the PAWS effects are so varied it's like nothing can tackle them at once. Stimulants take care of the lethargy and brain fog and numbness, but they make the restlessness and anxiety worse. Benzos take care of the restlessness and anxiety, but they made the brain fog and lethargy worse... And both are addictive habit forming drugs themselves, so you're really playing with fire even though you're trying to use them in a purely utilitarian way. Weed helped me. I could feel at least and that made me feel more like a human being experiencing life than just like... Some fleshy poorly programmed AI having a slow existential crises unable to understand it's own existence in a fleshy meat sack.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Yeah, no 'woe is me, life is pain', just... Nothing nothing nothing robotically going about your day kinda passively observing life because you can't feel anything. Can't get no satisfaction haha. It's so hard to get through especially when you tend towards substance use, the PAWS effects are so varied it's like nothing can tackle them at once. Stimulants take care of the lethargy and brain fog and numbness, but they make the restlessness and anxiety worse. Benzos take care of the restlessness and anxiety, but they made the brain fog and lethargy worse... And both are addictive habit forming drugs themselves, so you're really playing with fire even though you're trying to use them in a purely utilitarian way. Weed helped me. I could feel at least and that made me feel more like a human being experiencing life than just like... Some fleshy poorly programmed AI having a slow existential crises unable to understand it's own existence in a fleshy meat sack.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I abused stimulants to get through some dark periods during my "sobriety" but only ended up created a more profound depression and particular made my anxiety worse. I was more accepting of myself off opiates but it was like watching everything around me happen without being able to participate in it.

As soon as I relapsed I became myself again--after 4 months. I probably should have given sobriety more of a chance but my life instantly improved once I started using again. I was more social and overall productive (even though nobody believes me that opiates make me a more productive and whole person). Right now I'm just trying to not think about the inevitable which is probably the worst decision I could make. I'm actually pondering talking to my doctor about gabapentinoids because they help my anxiety without causing any dysfunctional zombie-like behavior that true benzos do. I'm just very fearful of the withdrawals that occur from gabapentin, although some people say there aren't any withdrawals whatsoever.

The scariest part is how all of this occurred with my use consistently below 80mg of opioids. I can't imagine what it's like to withdraw from heroin or higher doses of something like dilauded and stuff. It's a pretty fucked up curse. Like having the most gorgeous and perfect ex you could ever obtain that's apparently bad for you but you can return at any given moment if you desire. All-in-all I'd rather us be addicted to opiates over something like meth or benzos. At least we stand a chance of our brain one day becoming how it used to be and we haven't permanently altered our health so far. Opiates just prove that the mental environment is more crucial to an addict's choices than the physical aspects of use.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Like having the most gorgeous and perfect ex you could ever obtain that's apparently bad for you but you can return at any given moment if you desire.

"Like getting a hug from an abusive lover" as one of my mates put it.

 

[I_Hate_This_Place]

Haha I'm wicked hard to offend it's cool. So that explains why I got so damn high. Kinda makes me want to heroin--jk it makes me want to stay the hell away from it.

There's so much information from people on subs that just makes me think they still haven't found a solid solution to the "epidemic." There's way too many variables that just make subs unreliable to treat every patient across the board. It's either strong enough to make someone drool or too weak to help others from feeling dopesick. Seems like the closest attempt to getting closer though! They're definitely working on new stuff I can feel it. I just want to stop playing fire with oxy/kratom 100%. All my attempts lead to miserable sobriety runs and an endless cycle of relapsing. I really want to be clean but it's always seem to won so far. Was just out of the woods and truly believed it was over until I touched it again and somehow my habits became worse than ever before. Kind of makes you feel like absolute shit until the pleasure part kicks in.

Good to hear I didn't offend you.

Suboxone is definitely not the solution for everyone. I agree with you there.

I actually argued the exact opposite on the Suboxone vs Methadone thing. Buprenorphine is used for pain. Methadone is also used for pain. Suboxone in particular is NOT.

Though most people are unaware of Methadone being used for pain. Even many doctors. I had to bring in old script bottle labels (I keep shit like that; just in case I need to prove shit!) & show them the law on the fucking DEA website.

I was offended that they wanted me to use "Suboxone" for pain management as opposed to the Methadone I'd used for years though. Mostly I was being pedantic as I don't find Buprenorphine very effective for pain. Not to mention it complicates a surgery I need done. As well as pain control post surgery.

I probably wouldn't have been as pissed if they mentioned Buprenorphine (Subutex, Etc) as opposed to Suboxone in particular. Suboxone's prescribing literature specifically states it's contraindicated for pain management! Only for addiction treatment according to the doctor prescribing info! (I don't read consumer stuff)

So if you're really serious about using it to treat pain offer me Buprenorphine not Suboxone. I don't need Nalaxone. I'm aware that with the binding affinity of Buprenorphine that the Nalaxone doesn't do anything & is just a marketing gimmick but it's the PRINCIPLE of it all.

Fucking absurd. They recommend switching a patient to Methadone if they need surgery. That or switching to a short acting & back & such. Yeah not fucking with a chance of precipitated withdrawal after having a fuck ton of teeth extracted. No fucking thank you!

Don't need to risk vomiting from PW. FUCK THAT!

So yeah Suboxone is not the solution for everyone. I'm glad I have something at least. As I see no point going off opioids just to get back on them when the climate changes. I actually will find out about a script soon.

I just buy them as it's so cheap compared to using full agonists. I can't afford any other way at this point. I got Methadone for years on the street after the ridiculous "epidemic" BS cost me my script for it. Even though I took the exact same medication I was prescribed; at the same doses for a couple years before I found a new doctor I was willing to ask for the prescription back; I was denied it.

A drug test confirmed everything I told them. Still they wanted me to get off Methadone go through withdrawal & switch to Suboxone. I have major health issues I can't go through fucking Methadone withdrawals to get on Suboxone for no reason!

As I had no choice I did so. However; I did it myself. After exhausting all other options! I tapered, switched to a short acting full agonist till the Methadone was out of my system & then inducted. Fuck Methadone withdrawals. Way to long lasting.

Besides I couldn't even imagine precipitating off Methadone! It's been horrific enough with other opioids which have much shorter durations of action.

I think I begin to ramble; so we'll call that my answer. For now.

 

[mixnmatch80]

Something I never expected. 2 MG gets me RIPPED. Tolerance to opioids 40-60 mg daily.

Do you use just 2 mg per day and which way-sublingually, IM or IV?

 

[mixnmatch80]

Uhhh... 40-60 mg of *what*? Morphine? Street heroin? Codeine? Fentanyl? Carfentanyl?

But yes, buprenorphine is a partial agonist with an extremely high binding affinity for Mu opioid receptors. That means that for people with little tolerance, it can produce an intense high simply because of the sheer number of opioid receptors it can occupy, even though its "partial agonist" nature keeps it from activating those receptors as effectively as a full agonist like morphine. At low doses, bupe can therefore be up to 40 times as potent as morphine.

The thing about partial agonists, however, is that you'll soon hit a "ceiling" where an increase in dosage confers less and less of an increase in effects. After all, you only have so many opioid receptors, so once they're all occupied, the effect can't get any stronger. Thus, the difference between 1 and 2 mg's of bupe is greater than that between 8 and 16 mg.

This is also why people who are already heavily addicted to opioids initially experience withdrawal symptoms when switching to buprenorphine, because the level of opioid receptor activation they require to avoid getting sick is far higher than the maximum level of receptor activation that buprenorphine can provide, so when the bupe suddenly displaces the full-agonist drugs already in their system, it is almost like they're getting narcan'd.

I use low dose Buprenorphine 2 mg daily via the IM route. Is there anything that can potentate the effect like grapefruit juice since it inhibits the main enzyme involved in BUP, CYP34A? Or would it only potentate sublingual Buprenorphine? I’m also not sure if a CYP3A inhibitor like grapefruit juice would help increase the intensity of the euphoria & overall effects by inhibition or actually decrease the effects by inhibiting the conversion from Buprenorphine to the active metabolite Norbuprenorphine? I’ve been trying to research and find this out for days so if anyone knows, I’d appreciate it.

 

[Alldonewithit]

does Sub/bupe work for pain at all folks? i have been curious about this if anyone can answer this question for me, thanks.

It does for me. Ive got 3 ruptured discs in my lower back, and after getting off my pain meds, 1mg of sub sometimes 2x/ day does the trick.

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

For an opiate naive person,buprenorphine is a really strong opiate. I first tried buprenorphine as a Temgesic tablet 2mg which was dropped into a pint of beer,after finishing beer I could feel it,even though they're sublingual it must have absorbed through the mouth lining. I was buzzing as much as chasing a £10 bag of smack.

When I became addicted to heroin and was put on buprenorphine at 32mg,the maximum dose I suffered for a day as the heroin was knocked out the receptors. After that I never felt the buprenorphine but wasn't dope sick and could get on with life. It was only when I reduced to below 1mg that I felt it again,nowhere near like the first time with the temgesic. My Doctor told me that buprenorphine at very low doses works more like traditional agonists and that's why the patches are in microgram doses for pain management.

Buprenorphine without tolerance is IMO as strong if not stronger than heroin.

Yeah i remember 6? 7? Years ago i had my very first opiate high, we split a 2mg subutex tablet and snorted half each. After 30 mins it was like a fucking brick hit me in the face, i was in heaven all day nodding in and out of consciousness... Never been that high ever again

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Yeah i remember 6? 7? Years ago i had my very first opiate high, we split a 2mg subutex tablet and snorted half each. After 30 mins it was like a fucking brick hit me in the face, i was in heaven all day nodding in and out of consciousness... Never been that high ever again

Crazy to try a "withdrawal" medication and it gets you higher than you've ever been in your entire life, right? I don't think suboxone or methadone is for someone dabbling in 10-30 milligrams of opioids a day. You might as well just kick with a more benign withdrawal and handle it by yourself at home for like 4-5 days.

It might have to do with the sheer amount of natural opiate receptors suboxone fills up though. Someone with mild use would not be accustomed to having all those receptors filled and would be walloped for 6-8 hours or so. But some people also on the other hand complain about subs being so useless and not preventing any sickness at all (even at crazy amounts of subs like 24 milligrams daily). Go figure. As high as a mild user could get from suboxone though, it still takes quite a bit to overdose imo. Definitely more than 2 milligrams no doubt. It's a very good medication and has saved so many lives at the end of the day--but still it's not for everyone.

Is suboxone any different from subutex or are they virtually the same? Does anyone know?

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

Crazy to try a "withdrawal" medication and it gets you higher than you've ever been in your entire life, right? I don't think suboxone or methadone is for someone dabbling in 10-30 milligrams of opioids a day. You might as well just kick with a more benign withdrawal and handle it by yourself at home for like 4-5 days.

It might have to do with the sheer amount of natural opiate receptors suboxone fills up though. Someone with mild use would not be accustomed to having all those receptors filled and would be walloped for 6-8 hours or so. But some people also on the other hand complain about subs being so useless and not preventing any sickness at all (even at crazy amounts of subs like 24 milligrams daily). Go figure. As high as a mild user could get from suboxone though, it still takes quite a bit to overdose imo. Definitely more than 2 milligrams no doubt. It's a very good medication and has saved so many lives at the end of the day--but still it's not for everyone.

Is suboxone any different from subutex or are they virtually the same? Does anyone know?

Suboxone is buprenorphine + naloxone, but the latter is not active unless injected so whatever.
Weird thing is, i used to get sooo fucking high off bupe, then for a time i started plugging it almost everyday and after a while it just basically stopped doing anything to me, no matter the dose. It's great for stopping WDs and if I'm clean for a while i can snort a bump and feel a tiny bit of that energetic high for like 2 hours but that's it. Bummer. I've had some really good times on this drug before starting to dabble with the more pernicious stuff like heroin and methadone

My opioid abuse days are OVER anyway, I'm done with this shit, it stopped being fun a long time ago

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Suboxone is buprenorphine + naloxone, but the latter is not active unless injected so whatever.
Weird thing is, i used to get sooo fucking high off bupe, then for a time i started plugging it almost everyday and after a while it just basically stopped doing anything to me, no matter the dose. It's great for stopping WDs and if I'm clean for a while i can snort a bump and feel a tiny bit of that energetic high for like 2 hours but that's it. Bummer. I've had some really good times on this drug before starting to dabble with the more pernicious stuff like heroin and methadone

My opioid abuse days are OVER anyway, I'm done with this shit, it stopped being fun a long time ago

I'm glad you made it out.. too many people can't even after it stops being fun so long ago and loses it's euphoria completely. Kudos cuz I know how hard it can be to escape when your brain is already accustomed to high dose opiates flowing through it to simply function like a normal brain.

I agree about the positive effects of subs diminishing quickly. I remember the beginning of the week I tried subutex .5 milligrams got me blasted and uncomfortably nodding out. I was floored and so shocked. Towards the end of the week, 2 milligrams simply got me high. Did you get out of the opiate lifestyle willingly or you had to get onto a treatment program plan? jw