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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Suboxone VS Hydromorphone for pain

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freedomchild

freedomchild

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Mar 31, 2011
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Has anyone switched between these two and what was your energy level like?

I am thinking about trying suboxone or a generic for chronic severe pain vs the hydromorphone tabs. Any personal experience with these 2 would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance...

:|
 
I've switched between these two for recreational purposes, no pain purposes...

Here's my experience: (note: my ROA is snorting for hydromorphone and sublingual/snorting for buprenorphine (Suboxone)).

Hydromorphone - sedated and euphoric, I think this one has better painkilling abilities of the two (have had it IV in medical settings), but it is also quite sleepy and that causes problems with energy levels. I don't know what dosages you're using or planning on using for pain but even lower dosages snorted (1mg+) puts me in a nod.

Buprenorphine (Suboxone) - more awake and stimulated than hydromorphone or morphine, almost has an antidepressant quality [see this thread for more information about this]. It has painkilling abilities close to morphine but I feel that hydromorphone is better.

Your mileage may (probably will) vary. Opiates work differently for different people and certainly work differently for pain purposes. My experience with these and other opiates mainly involve recreational usage, not medical use for pain.
 
That's really interesting, thanks for the info. I wonder if I'm one of those lucky people that doesn't GET pain from opioids, because I think my pain should be less. Thanks for the link...
 
man, i'm in the same boat. recovering from a severe injury for the past 6months. still hurts like hell.

docs want me off the oxycontin bad. the said suboxone is safer and doesn't cause withdrawals.

meantime, i've transitioned to nucynta, which is effective, but not effective enough. so i'm gonna pursue the suboxone thing.

really, i'd take anything that actually worked just to get the docs to not insinuate that anyone on opiates for chronic pain is an abuser.

(of course, the irony is that while i dont abuse my pain meds (can't, don't ever have extras) i abuse the hell out of the benzos they scribe me. gotta stop that.

anyway, would also like to hear from anyone using suboxone for chronic pain management.
 
docs want me off the oxycontin bad. the said suboxone is safer and doesn't cause withdrawals.
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Suboxone does cause withdrawals, but they're milder and it is much easier to taper down with Suboxone so you don't have withdrawals in the end.

I know it seems like all I do is link you all to other threads but the Suboxone Megathread (v12.0!!) has a lot of this covered, in addition to the pain management thread I linked earlier.
 
That thread is great -- I would recommend it, halfoz. Thanks again, Neighborhood Threat.

I've never understood benzo abuse! If you want to cut that down, I'm sure that there is a way -- for me, they are their own deterrent. I take them to go to sleep and stop panic and that's about it.

As far as docs giving you a hard time, a couple docs gave me a hard time about opioids, too. I'm glad that I dropped them immediately and kept looking for someone who takes me seriously.

Of course, I'm completely dependent emotionally and physically on opioids now. I've had to stop both Methadone and Opana cold turkey and I really would like to just find something that takes away the pain and doesn't leave me too tired. Just a little concerned that the Suboxone won't be strong enough and that they'll try to add Tramadol, which I find to be useless.

Good luck with your quest.
 
NeighborhoodThreat said:
I've switched between these two for recreational purposes, no pain purposes...

Here's my experience: (note: my ROA is snorting for hydromorphone and sublingual/snorting for buprenorphine (Suboxone)).

Hydromorphone - sedated and euphoric, I think this one has better painkilling abilities of the two (have had it IV in medical settings), but it is also quite sleepy and that causes problems with energy levels. I don't know what dosages you're using or planning on using for pain but even lower dosages snorted (1mg+) puts me in a nod.

Buprenorphine (Suboxone) - more awake and stimulated than hydromorphone or morphine, almost has an antidepressant quality [see this thread for more information about this]. It has painkilling abilities close to morphine but I feel that hydromorphone is better.

Your mileage may (probably will) vary. Opiates work differently for different people and certainly work differently for pain purposes. My experience with these and other opiates mainly involve recreational usage, not medical use for pain.
Click to expand...

odd, I have a fairly low tolerance, about 40 mg hydrocodone at once, and I snorted 6 mg hydromorphone the other day all at once, and felt nothing but sleepy no euphoria or anything., any idea why that is?
 
bpayne said:
odd, I have a fairly low tolerance, about 40 mg hydrocodone at once, and I snorted 6 mg hydromorphone the other day all at once, and felt nothing but sleepy no euphoria or anything., any idea why that is?
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It's because hydromorphone's oral bioavailability is extremely low - about 10%. So you only got 10% of that 6 mg dose, which is nothing (you didn't even get 1 mg).

BTW, hydromorphone (and methadone, morphine, oxymorphone, fentanyl) are better painkillers than buprenorphine because bupe is only a partial agonist of the mu receptor. The rest are full agonists.
 
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hi, i'm new here, and not even sure if this is the right way to reply or not, but i had to try. i'm just getting over a devastating car wreck that left me in the hospital, then jail. BAD DAY!) ironically, i was getting off a 40 lortab a day habit with the "help" of suboxone. the stuff's awesome! ha the real jinx there is that i was using it as a substitute to percs or cets, not wanting to wean off. i thought i'd found the holy grail, i was high as a effing kite, and also drank some wine. feeling great. plowed right into the back of a turning-left car, wound up with a torn rotator cuff, a dwi, 30 days in jail, lost my job, then my apt.....suicidal as hell!! so, yeh, be very careful....peace
 
so you can get high off subs then? for me it takes about 40mg of oxycontin 2x/day to really effectively control the pain. to achieve euphoria i have to add benzos or hydrocodone.

so total of 80mgs of oxycontin - how does that compare to suboxone in terms of dosage?

does that make sense? on monday, i'm asking my pdoc for the suboxone, and while i've been tapering down on oxy i crossed well below the threshold of analgesia. i want to make sure that i'm getting dosed enough suboxone to control the pain.
 
so you can get high off subs then? for me it takes about 40mg of oxycontin 2x/day to really effectively control the pain. to achieve euphoria i have to add benzos or hydrocodone.
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Yes you can. See the Buprenophine thread for more information about this.

does that make sense? on monday, i'm asking my pdoc for the suboxone, and while i've been tapering down on oxy i crossed well below the threshold of analgesia. i want to make sure that i'm getting dosed enough suboxone to control the pain.
Click to expand...

Your doctor knows you take 80mg daily for pain management, he will most likely switch you to an equal buprenorphine dosage and possibly script you another compatible drug such as tramadol (since, as kokaino already mentioned, buprenorphine is a partial agonist whereas other traditional opiates, including oxycodone, are full agonists).

From Captain.Heroin's post over in the megathread:

Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.

Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.
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So yes you can, but that's something that your doctor will be able to determine better than we could.
 
To halfoz, hell ya you can get high on suboxone. there are 2 strengths, i forgot what the mg. is, but they're bright orange, the bigger, stronger ones. i wasn't taking them for pain, i jusst like the feeling, and that instead of taking mass quantities of hydrocodone daily, just like 2 or 3 would be awesome...but i drank on them, which is a no-no. at first i really was getting them to help me get off of all the other stuff, oh yeh, and a friend at AA gave me a whole bunchof them...ironic, no? but man, that shit fucked my whold life up, cuz usually i know when i'mtoo fucked up to drive, but i felt fucking amazing, like i could fly or something!! anyway, have you tried fentanyl patches? i haven't read anything about those on here yet but i've done them just for the hell of it, my friend who is in chronic pain swears by them. high risk of abuse there, as you can ingest them, smoke, whatever else. i had to be careful with em, cuz i kept losing them, and i didn't want my cats to eat them up off the floor and die!! but i'm pretty sure they get the job done. all i know is that i'm damn glad to not be taking 40 lorcets a day, i just mess around from time to time, nothing too extreme, but relly, be careful if you're gonna get on subs, i loved 'em!
 
The hydromorphone will provide stronger pain relief over a short time with more sedation while buprenorphine will provide less but still powerful pain relief over a longer period of time with much less sedation. When I was on buprenorphine I felt it actually had a stimulating effect.

It really depends on your pain. If the buprenorphine is strong enough then its probably the better choice.
 
I've just been reading horror stories of withdrawals from suboxone. Some people are saying that it's worse that Methadone, which I personally thought was freaking intense, very, very addicting.

Anyone know about this? I don't want to go through days on end of no sleep and months of depression if this is yet another painkiller that doesn't work with my metabolism, etc.

:\
 
freedomchild said:
I've just been reading horror stories of withdrawals from suboxone. Some people are saying that it's worse that Methadone, which I personally thought was freaking intense, very, very addicting.

Anyone know about this? I don't want to go through days on end of no sleep and months of depression if this is yet another painkiller that doesn't work with my metabolism, etc.

:\
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There's noway that that can be true. Do you have the link to where you read such a thing at?
 
freedomchild said:
I can find a link -- I'll go through my history -- but you are giving me a little happiness here. I've been very upset about it. Here they are...

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=508928

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=844333&highlight=suboxone&page=2
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Those are forums - just people talking about things they know little about. Methadone probably has the worst withdrawal than any opioid, worse than morphine/heroin, even.
 
I personally thought that methadone was very, very intense -- so, if it is the worst, it makes me a little less leery of the suboxone.

The only problem is that once I go for a either one, the bridge is pretty much burned. So, if I go to the suboxone, I can say bye bye to the hydromorphone -- which I'm not in love with, but it gets me through the day.

Is there a place that I can see the relative withdrawals from these? I can ask my doctor when I see them, too, I guess.
 
Is there a place that I can see the relative withdrawals from these? I can ask my doctor when I see them, too, I guess.
Click to expand...

Bluelight is loaded with first hand experiences with Suboxone (and methadone). Again, check out the megathread I listed, read through it.

Everybody's withdrawal will be different.
 
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