Bupe Suboxone, Tapering, Quiting, Methadone ? The Truth good and bad ! Shoulda just kicked

[curlygurl1980]

NOPE i think he is maintaining a productive life style and came a long long way in his recovery he isnt banging heroin evry day and in my opinion thats RECOVERED. and not only that trys to help others in their suboxone recovery i actually know for a FACT his methods work bc i have followed his advice and have not had even the slightest sign of withdrawels!!!!

 

[cballhp]

Any long term opiate habit will result in PAWS, it is not exclusive to Suboxone or Methadone.

Simple fact of the matter is the longer you use any opiate the longer it takes to recover and the longer the PAWS will be.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I had PAWS from heroin, I would rather be coming off of buprenorphine than heroin. The acute part of heroin withdrawal is so horrible I would prefer a long, drawn out come down off of buprenorphine.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

do you think jamesbrown is addicted to suboxone like DkBlaze1 said?

This sounds like high school... DKblaze and others, don't worry about if other members are "addicts" or not, it has no place being discussed here.

 

[DkBlaze1]

Any long term opiate habit will result in PAWS, it is not exclusive to Suboxone or Methadone.

Simple fact of the matter is the longer you use any opiate the longer it takes to recover and the longer the PAWS will be.[/QUOTE]

I had never said that Suboxone or methadone are the only opiates with the ability to cause PAWS. In fact I was trying to say what you said in red, plus the fact that If you get on suboxone IT will be harder in the end to quit and the PAWs will b longer much longer due to the Long half life Of suboxone is why I think people experience for such prolonged periods as well as what you had said in red...

I am flatly Just Trying to warn people about it, I Never was told that coming off suboxone was as hard, or took as long as it does. Doctors and people make it sound like it is extremely easy but then I got to researching it and looking around ect and Relized that It is much harder mentally but much easyer on the body. The mental tho lasts for months and months and the small amount of body stuff does too plus fatigue.

I wish people didnt respond to this thread in such a foolish manner, I simply want to talk to people about getting clean. I admit my OP was a little all over the place ect, But I was a little out of it from my dose of suboxone. I am truly worried about how suboxone is actully been far more of a problem for me then it ever was a help. People NEED to know this is very commmon for people think and once on suboxone the RElapse potental afterwards in my opion is higher then if I had been clean from heroin right way and clean till now..

 

[SkagKush]

again

/Thread

 

[axe battler]

James Brown GET HELP NOW!!!!

I have told you atleast a dozen times how it improves the quality of life.

I also have no clue what your definition of addictive behavo=ior is. Because you seem to be all over the place with it.

Before I say anything more to you, I want you to type out the exact definition that you think is the definition of "addict"....or "addictive behavior"

Because according to the medical community, the medications(or drug) you are taking, must negatively impact your life in atleast one way for you to be considered an addict. And there is not one way that suboxone negatively effects me. Therefore, no addict, no addictive behavior....end of story.

It helps me feel less depressed(just like hundreds of other medications people are prescribed every day of there lives)......it also gives me energy, allthough the energy probably comes from the ant-depressant properties, it gives me more "energy" to do thigns if im in a better mood(just like hundreds of medications people take every day of there lives)....and it can give me small amounts of euphoria which is also a part of the ant-depressant properties because the euphoria helps me have a better mood, but it mainly kills the pain I have from 18 years of hard athletic activity and about a dozen broken bones/injuries.....and it does this so I dont have to be taking a stronger painkilling narcotic that could possibly lead to addiction or have more serious side efffects.

In general.....it benefits me in many many ways, and all of those benefits, are things that people get from thousands of different medications everyday, all the time. I jsut happen to get them from one medication. And I am not addicted to the medication because I dont have to take it to live a normal, functioning, happy life....i just choose to sometimes because it can make my life even better. But when I choose not to take it, my life doesnt get bad all of a sudden because I need it....THAT would be addictive behavior. I think you are very confused about what addiction is because NOTHING about my situation suggests addictive behavior and yet you keep hounding me about it. WHy do you want me to be an addict so much? Why cant you just be happy that I am taking a medication just like millions of other people in the world, that benefits me? Why arent you asking all those other people about them being addicts? i really jsut dont get it? I am in no different scenario than any other person on a medication to help you live a better life, and yet you treat me like an addict in denial, even though i show NONE of the behaviors that make up an addict, atleast acccording to the medical communities definition of addiction.
I dont know what your definition od addiction is, but it must be unique if you truly believe I am an addict.
So please.....tell me what your definition of an addict is....I am dying to hear it....

UTTER DENIAL!!!

I kid!

Nah, I have been thinking about doing as James Brown is too. I find it almost fucking impossibly hard to live without any kind of opiate.

I've been through HORRID Morphine withdrawals, got clean, thought I had learned my lesson, then started right up.

Now I am ''clean'' but only comparitively: I've got this horrid cycle of robbing my dad's pain meds until the point where he might notice (he used to lock them away from me), then buying OTC codeine products to ''wean down'' (I am taking over the RDA of APAP and or Ibubrofen during this: bad.)

I feel like shit a lot of the time, constantly in mild withdrawals, until I get pissed or E'd up or something (which makes me worse the next day -- thank god for the painkillers )

Anyway, I'm sure I can tough out these PAWS or whatever, but life does sure suck at the moment.

If I explained this to a doctor, you think he'd give me sub?

A very low dose of sub every day, I'm sure, would be good for me and my career and relationships (maybe not my sex drive though.)

The OP: You are right about addiction in yourself, but don't pass off opinion as fact. JB has said he is doing great, just because he is pissing about with a little sub he's not necessarily addicted -- he's using it as medicine man.
Imagine all the people taking benzos or, fuck that, people that get pissed to unwind after a stressful day. Are they addicts?

My .2 anyway.

 

[DkBlaze1]

UTTER DENIAL!!!

I kid!

Nah, I have been thinking about doing as James Brown is too. I find it almost fucking impossibly hard to live without any kind of opiate.

I've been through HORRID Morphine withdrawals, got clean, thought I had learned my lesson, then started right up.

Now I am ''clean'' but only comparitively: I've got this horrid cycle of robbing my dad's pain meds until the point where he might notice (he used to lock them away from me), then buying OTC codeine products to ''wean down'' (I am taking over the RDA of APAP and or Ibubrofen during this: bad.)

I feel like shit a lot of the time, constantly in mild withdrawals, until I get pissed or E'd up or something (which makes me worse the next day -- thank god for the painkillers )

Anyway, I'm sure I can tough out these PAWS or whatever, but life does sure suck at the moment.

If I explained this to a doctor, you think he'd give me sub?

A very low dose of sub every day, I'm sure, would be good for me and my career and relationships (maybe not my sex drive though.)

The OP: You are right about addiction in yourself, but don't pass off opinion as fact. JB has said he is doing great, just because he is pissing about with a little sub he's not necessarily addicted -- he's using it as medicine man.
Imagine all the people taking benzos or, fuck that, people that get pissed to unwind after a stressful day. Are they addicts?

My .2 anyway.

Yes, they are all addict most def all of them.. Benzos are stupid addictive the only thing besides alchol that can kill you iff u stop cold turkey.please dont bring that sarcastic attitude to this thread.

I guess it really comes down to what you want out and from your life. What your willing to give up and wat your not. I personally know that When I am sober I am a far happier person more motavated more sosical and more able to b moving forward and want far more from life during times of sobriety. IF you dont actully want to get sober and to live that life your never gonna agree with my veiws and always give in to the chemical games opiates or w.e drug it may be has played on ur brain. chemically I even want this shit for life Fuck I want methadone for life and I wanta shoot dope for life and take benzos with my methadone fuck not getting high, But that is my addiction and chemicals that I got out of order in my brain making me confused about what is actully good for me and what i really want, I know what is right tho and that this is my addiction ect and that it will get better so this is why I will fight to get what I know I want. even though my mind is tricking me and makes me deny things I must be stronger then a chemical. The mind is very strong and I do not want to die at a younger age because I was weak and unable to stop using a drug that is bad for the liver.

And For you bro if your sober then stick with it, I mean im not gonna argue. u will do what you want and im sure u can find a doc that will give u subs either way. and of course you want to b on subs or steal ur pops meds because that is instant gratification for your body and mind. Chemically we are all fucked because we got addicted we will live with the urge/obsseession for ever.

But I am sure man if you can Hold out for some real period of time Im talking like 2 years, you are more likly to see all the benifits and will start to want it for yourself and see life is just soo much easyer and smooth and all around always better. I dont expect to feel good when only being sober for a few months or ayear. It takes A certain amoount ofd time to walk in to the woods now its prolly gonna take that plus some to walkk back out..

I was in the saame cycle as you are - the stealing meds I had to steal money and do other slezz bag things.. anyway Is that really the cycle You want.. I know that for me when I am on suboxone it is far far easyer to put together sub sober time then take a lil break and use and then get back on subs because I can do it w.o repercutions of withdrawls ect. I just think for me and alot of others suboxone wasnt very helpful or a good choice.

I know that I want to b sober and that everyone who gets addicted to something would always rather just be on that somthing and if you could b on subs for ever then you would proly. but I know that isnt a actully positive thing for my life in the end of the day It isn't good for your body mind or spirt.(not just soul but spirt in all lights.. such as mood, motavation ect ect.)

and in to the comments about james brown.. Honestly please just end it, This isnt a thread about that guy or me argueing I dont want to keep bring it there. This is ment to be about getting clean from suboxone and how to deal with the PAWS and how to break the cycle you spoke about, A place were someone should come and talk if they feel like they wanta use today or feel like giving up and just getting on suboxone like you did. Just really put some thought into it.

I doubt you will really at ur heart and soul feel that its the right idea if you have never been actully sober for a couple years I would try that first before giving up and making ur obsession ur ruller and master as I have. it only makes that negitive side stronger by getting on suboxone and lets you get off easy to some degree but at the same time once quiting its harder because it lasts unreasonably long and really makes it hard to stop thinking about redoseing or going out and scoreing because u know if u do go on a run u can get back on subs and start it all over... this is my largest issue with Subs .. it makes the cycle the master again and just feeds it every day u dose ...

And know im not trying to argue im just trying to tell you how i feel and what I think is the deal.. Im only wishing for the best for people.. and yes my route will not be as easy as just geting on subs but it will b the route that brings you a fuller life and that can't really b questioned.


And hey SKAGKUSH please man Stop coming to this thread to say Close Thread and then saying nothing of value. your not bring anyting to it and if you dont like whats being said then Fuck off and stop coming and looking at whats said, Im pretty sure no ones got a gun to ur head making you keep looking.

 

[DkBlaze1]

I gotta say no Kidding Talking suboxone makes life better .. when I was on heroin If i had alot of money I was having a fucking sweet life... Or was i the fact is I was addicted. and thats no life the only reason people think life on sub is so sweet is due to the never ending supply so they never feel sick.

If WE lived in the UK and I was getitng Heroin from the government, And got it the same way I get suboxone. In all of your opions I would also not b addicted to heroin that I was doing every day. yet none of you will argue that point. because its not somting you can dispute, I really am very disturbed that everyone gets soo up in arms when Im posting about geting clean and things that are ment to be the end goal of suboxone not one of you has really said anyting of value only things that Are to insite an arguement.. Because all of the post for the most part are just bullshit there just people denying the fact that suboxone is an addictive substance and that it isn;t a good thing to b on a opiate for the rest of your life. you will die from liver problems possibly ect ect.

If you dont argee and wanta argue, PM me ill argue with you there not on the thread.

 

[donnie080208]

Coming off methadone or subutex is all well and good but ive read that 95% will relapse to their DOC within a year. Is someone more or less likely to stay off opiates like heroin etc.. if theyve been tapering off BMT or MMT? I dont think tapering properly impacts on the relapse rates after ones fully withdrawn, not sure.
^Sadly , just 500 people are prescribed heroin in the U.K. out of roughly 300,000 in treatment for heroin abuse. I think the key thing about subutex and methadone is that fundementally they are not euphoric drugs like heroin obviously is.(especially when tolerance kicks in). I would class some one using a stable, legal/free + prescribed heroin as "clean" as long as they didnt abuse it or any other drugs/alcohol.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^i think the sustainability of the recovery has more to do with what other changes they make then how they detoxed. If they hang out with the same people, have the same stressors/mental issues, etc then they are at a high risk for relapse.

If they made meaningful changes in their life to address why they used and what it did to their life then their chances of success are much higher... But this is off topic and I don't want to derail the op's thread.

 

[DkBlaze1]

^^ totally not off topic and I agree. In my mind that would fit under the Quiting part.. Its all about learning to get sober and haveing the best plan of action to stay that way once sober, I just really hadnt gotten to that part yetwhich is kinda foolish ahha but thank you for bring it up and now some time soon I will try to speak on it hopfully you can throw ur two cents about things you have mabye changed or if not all done yet what are things u wish to change .

 

[cballhp]

Any long term opiate habit will result in PAWS, it is not exclusive to Suboxone or Methadone.

Simple fact of the matter is the longer you use any opiate the longer it takes to recover and the longer the PAWS will be.[/QUOTE]

I had never said that Suboxone or methadone are the only opiates with the ability to cause PAWS. In fact I was trying to say what you said in red, plus the fact that If you get on suboxone IT will be harder in the end to quit and the PAWs will b longer much longer due to the Long half life Of suboxone is why I think people experience for such prolonged periods as well as what you had said in red...

I am flatly Just Trying to warn people about it, I Never was told that coming off suboxone was as hard, or took as long as it does. Doctors and people make it sound like it is extremely easy but then I got to researching it and looking around ect and Relized that It is much harder mentally but much easyer on the body. The mental tho lasts for months and months and the small amount of body stuff does too plus fatigue.

I wish people didnt respond to this thread in such a foolish manner, I simply want to talk to people about getting clean. I admit my OP was a little all over the place ect, But I was a little out of it from my dose of suboxone. I am truly worried about how suboxone is actully been far more of a problem for me then it ever was a help. People NEED to know this is very commmon for people think and once on suboxone the RElapse potental afterwards in my opion is higher then if I had been clean from heroin right way and clean till now..

To say I replied in a foolish manner after admitting that your post was all over the place is foolish in and of itself. My post is 100% accurate and 100% logical given the context of your OP.

I do however agree with you that Suboxone is made out to be a wonder drug by the medical field, it is not.

However Suboxone is a miracle drug in some respects. It is a miracle that they allowed it to be Rx'd by doctors instead of imposing the same restrictions that are on Methadone, it is also a miracle drug to many who are in the throws of an active addiction and cannot for the life of themselves see a way out without some sort of maintenance or taper using a long acting opiate.

Nothing is perfect, but I myself would prefer Suboxone over running the streets getting my next fix. Suboxone allows many to live a normal life free from the ways of addiction and in that respect it is a miracle drug. It is not for everyone as you are coming to find out, it is simply a medicine to treat a disease that works for some but does not work for others. But giving the relapse rate of cold turkey or opiate abstinence it seems to me that for some there just is no other option.

People should make informed choices when it comes to this. They should research it for themselves and not take the word of a doctor or anyone else for that matter. Once they know just what it entails then make the choice....

I am sorry you had such a bad experience with it but to go and make it out to be the Devils own elixir is, I am sorry, but foolish, not my original post clarifying what your "all over the place" post said to begin with.

 

[crushcamel]

Im sry but I cant understand exactly what the Op is saying most the time. I can tell that he is complaining about people posting all these argumentative posts, but the only posts that i see that are either rude, argumentative, pushy, angry, etc...are his. I think he should calm down and type slower so he can get his point across a little better. Right now all I see is someone ranting about something. I dont want to be rude but thats exactly how it is and i see no way how that can help anybody.

Im all for helpin people but you have to go about it in the right way for it to be of any worth. you also have to know how to type correctly, and form complete, understandable sentences before most people will take you seriously. Im not tryin to say that what your tryin to tell people is wrong or anythin(allthough it may be, i just cant understand it to make a decision either way), im just sayin that you need to get the basics mastered(learning how to spell, write, speak calmly, understandably, and respectfully) before you move on to the more advanced stuff....writing out long detailed posts about what is right and wrong about a certain medication and who should do what, and what is not right, and etc, and etc, etc...

 

[SkagKush]

first off, DK, dont ever tell me to fuck off.....

i was playign around, and had spoken earlier in the thread, its not my fault that your spewing filth to people. i was tryna spare people from you telling them that they are wrong, when for the most part your wrong and are spreading bad vibes....

 

[CitioKid]

I was on suboxone for four years, and took low doses (1.5mg or less) the final year.

On suboxone I was productive and never thought about using other opiates. I graduated college magna cum, was stable, and everything seemed peachy.

But I was addicted to the suboxone. Very addicted. I didn't even realize how addicted I was until I tried to come off of it.

I was okay on the suboxone - but couldn't shake off that dark feeling that comes with any addiction. The feeling wasn't over bearing, but deep down I knew I wasn't making the right decision. Taking suboxone was the easy decision. It always is.

Any suboxone user would be lying if they told you they didn't look forward to their daily doses. It gives you a nice little glow that makes your problems feel less important.

If suboxone users aren't addicts, than neither are methadone users.

And I personally think the whole "other people take medications for their diseases, why is this any different?" excuse is invalid. The giant difference is that if suboxone users stop taking suboxone they won't die or get any worse - and eventually, once the PAWS wears off, there life will improve, and they will finally be free of the opiate prison.

I could have taken suboxone my whole life. But I would have never truly been proud of myself, would have never faced the demons that got me on drugs in the first place, and would have had to deal with an ever decreasing libido. Low libido was a nasty side effect for me after 3+ years of suboxone.

So if you think you have a disease and need suboxone for the rest of your life, and if you also believe that you're not an addict on the suboxone, then have fun. Addicts need to justify their decisions to make them more bearable.

But just wait until you stop taking it...


Again, this is just my opinion. Maybe other suboxone users find it easy as pie to quit suboxone because they aren't addicted to it. But that wasn't me, nor anyone else I know that has tried getting off of it.

 

[crushcamel]

I think it has alot to do with how the person uses the drug. I bet there are some people that dont look forward to taking there daily doses. Maybe some people dread it. I dont know. I do know that I cant speak for everyone on suboxone though.
But yes, most people on suboxone more than likely cant wait to get there sub fix in the morning...some of them probably cant even function right until they get that "fix". But, not everyone is the same, so maybe some other people are different.

 

[destiny_days]

My experience and my view on Subutex/Buprenorphine/Buprenex/Suboxone is this, that though it might be helpful for the short-term but on the long-term you become kind of a slave to it...End of the day it stops you from being you! stops you from being sober and thinking clearly, the longer your on Sub the more bored you get, eventually you will feel you want to be sub-free...In order to feel good on sub after long-term use you have to excercise, honestly without excercise I would have got depressed, I know for many excercise is not possible because of time and other issues but it's better to be off sub after a considerable amount of time being on it...

After 5 years of Subutex use I can safely say I rather lead a sub-free life now then be on sub...Sub is ok for a while so people can sort out their lives and stuff but it's not really worth being on it for the long-term i.e 1 year and over, because the more you take it then more you will feel bored and have no motivation, it happens to everybody..For some the 6 months mark is enough, for folks like me it took me 3 years to actually get bored on the sub...I don't wanna take a tablet to get high for few hours then get bored again..That's why am tapering off now....This is just my opinion and my experience...Am not pro-sub or anti-sub, I just want off and be able to travel, be able to work, being able to talk & socialise from my heart and not let the sub do the talking, I want to do all these things without worrying about withdrawals cuz I can't hold down a life if am tapering and going in some sort of withdrawals...

 

[crushcamel]

My experience and my view on Subutex/Buprenorphine/Buprenex/Suboxone is this, that though it might be helpful for the short-term but on the long-term you become kind of a slave to it...End of the day it stops you from being you! stops you from being sober and thinking clearly, the longer your on Sub the more bored you get, eventually you will feel you want to be sub-free...In order to feel good on sub after long-term use you have to excercise, honestly without excercise I would have got depressed, I know for many excercise is not possible because of time and other issues but it's better to be off sub after a considerable amount of time being on it...

After 5 years of Subutex use I can safely say I rather lead a sub-free life now then be on sub...Sub is ok for a while so people can sort out their lives and stuff but it's not really worth being on it for the long-term i.e 1 year and over, because the more you take it then more you will feel bored and have no motivation, it happens to everybody..For some the 6 months mark is enough, for folks like me it took me 3 years to actually get bored on the sub...I don't wanna take a tablet to get high for few hours then get bored again..That's why am tapering off now....This is just my opinion and my experience...Am not pro-sub or anti-sub, I just want off and be able to travel, be able to work, being able to talk & socialise from my heart and not let the sub do the talking, I want to do all these things without worrying about withdrawals cuz I can't hold down a life if am tapering and going in some sort of withdrawals...

Good for you, what dose were you taking? And what dose have you tapered to so far?

 

[SkagKush]

nothing like prepping the next days dose..............


what dose where you originally on? what dose have you tapered down to?