Bupe Suboxone, Tapering, Quiting, Methadone ? The Truth good and bad ! Shoulda just kicked

[DkBlaze1]

ok I have deleted all of the shit I wrote before starting this thread.

My main points are and this is all in my opion and experince. and the the thoughts on methadone are pruly what i have read and been told from my suboxone doctor who was a methadone doc for 15 years..

Suboxone/subutex

- I would never have gotten on suboxone had I known how long and bad the PAWS are, For me I am down to .3-1mg a day, every time I try to stop I can not get longer then 2-3 days max..

- for me Tapering down on suboxone was also reletively easy and I did not feel anything besides sleep issues, runny nose and eyes. that was from 16 to 1 as well

- I have heard that alot of people out there in my clinic and other places only, well all those people have alot of truble with getting clean completly from suboxone due to the PAWS they last very long like 6 months, and Get worse as time goes on untill they stable out and just suck.
This for me is very problematic becase I was able to get clean before without useing suboxone and the whole thing from last use to feeling normal took 3weeks to 1 month.

- Im My mind Suboxone is trading one addiction for another. It can save lifes because It gives someone there opiate without having to stress about how to get it and money ect ect. But it still is a opiate and it still Causes you to not progress as fast and well as you would had you been clean for the time you were on suboxone.

-I Feel like in the end of the day people have a hard time with the mental part of the addiction caused by suboxone more so then the body part which isnt there to much.

Mehtadone thought

-The one person that I think suboxone is a good Idea for is those who are on methadone and trying to get clean. you should do what you need to to switch over to suboxone and then taper from methadone to suboxone seeing as the withdrawls and such will b much easyer on your body..

- dont switch to suboxone until you have been off methadone for 48-72 hours.


Questions and points for having this thread.

- I would like to talk about tapering off of it completly.

- like what ways people who have actully gotten clean with suboxone have used so they dont experince the bad withdrawls I do from coming off just 1 mg a day..

- I would like to try to keep this thread on point about getting sober nothing about maintaining.

- I would like to know if people would rrather just gone through withdrawls from heroin or w.e instead of starting the road of either methadone or suboxone. Both of which have worse withdrawl symptoms in my opion .

- If you have tryed to get clean or are able to take breaks, What are the things that bring you back and what sort of planning can we figure out to break the cycle of going back. (I know that for me its just the mental need to feel that small high and stop thinking about taking that dose)

-anyway people understand the flow Of what Im shooting for ........................................................................................................................................................

Some web sites that really helped me are

www.suboxonetalkzone.com
www.subsux.com

My Tapering plan willl be posted again soon I just had to fix the post and gotta go and come back thank you..

IF you hold issue with what I'm saying save it for PM please, I have been a problem in using the open forum to argue this is useless shit, just PM Me if you want to talk trash because it is simply wasteing space and bringing the thread off topic to some were negitive.

 

[evvvvvv]

many many people have gone through the clinic I attend, using Methadone or Suboxone, and been successful in getting and staying clean. That's a fact.

 

[jamesBrown]

many many people have gone through the clinic I attend, using Methadone or Suboxone, and been successful in getting and staying clean. That's a fact.

yea, I have witnessed tons of people who have used methadone or suboxone to help them get clean. They use it as a "stepping stone" to help them ease off of the opiate they were addicted to. They just chose to do it in the right way and they were in the right mindset when they were using these medications to get clean. Most addicts that get on maintanence drugs to get clean arent TRULY dedicated to it and therefore it wont work well for them. But if you are truly willing to get clean, suboxone or methadone both can be very usefull tools. You just have to go about it in the right way.
Of course, they arent the right choice for some people, but for others they are, that is for each individual to decide. Some people are able to "tough it out" and get clean that way and thats great. But alot of those people dont know how to stay clean once they get off the opiates so it helps for them to have e "maintanence" drug to help them re-adjust to sober living. Of course some people can get clean by going cold turkey and are able to stay clean and that is great for them, but unfortunately most people dont have that kind of willpower.....in fact, that lack of willpower is more than likely what caused them to become addicts in the first place.....they didnt have the willpower to quit when they saw themselves starting to become addicted.
Everyone just needs to find out what works best for them. I am so happy that we now have all these options to choose from to help people get clean, because everyones different, and one person may need a certain method to get clean that is very different than the next persons method.

 

[DkBlaze1]

Suboxone taper method that worked for me and I didnt go through any withdrawl symptoms except for the days I took totally off, And it was more mental then anything past runny nose and eye. also I always Had to battle my urge from deep within my mind to take my next regualar dose.This is also the symptom most people who experince long term PAWS from suboxone say gave/gives then hardest time. Which Is why I think most people who are thinking about either Just kicking or getting on suboxone, They should most def Just Kick because u will have shorter worse withdrawls, but you gain more from the experince. The Experince from suboxone were you gain little and have to have more mental obbsession built within yourself about opiates. """ The longer you walk in to the woods, The longer It will take you to walk back out. """" this just supports why I think you should just kick instead of get on subs..

Most people are not going to have a hard time until they get to 4-8mg a day this is due to the ceiling effect ect.. any dose above 16 is considered overkill by all docs now and I know at my place they think over kill is anything above 8 mg daily.. but thats not the topic at hand.

Really Good Ideas to make your own taper plan with. all of these Ideas Are what I call the Dance And they should help you very much. just always think that it is a Dance you will do fine.

- 1st is More doses throughout the day the easyer it is to taper and feel fine.

- 2nd is Taking days off will suck, But they are a great way to quickly cut your dose in half.

- 3rd is Going down to ur goal dose then back up to ur regular then down to ur goal then half way back up then down to goal then back up to 1/4 is great. that is a day by day thing. it would look like this day #1 (16 mg) #2 (8mg ) #3 (12mg) #4 (8mg) #5 (10mg) #6 (8mg) #7(your at a 8 mg daily dose now)

- 4th Listen to your body and give in some times, But then react with a goal orented attitude about it the next day and mabye drop a dose from letting in the day prior.

While only taking one dose daily it was a morning dose.
2 times a day was wake up dose and hour before bed.
4 times a day is wake up dose, mid morning, afternoon, before bed.
The mid morning dose on 4 doses a day is the easyest one for me to cut and not notice a need to dose again...


This is My Taper plan it has worked well for me.


- So I started at 16 mg daily for a week then I started to drop my dose. Trying to shoot for 8 Mg a day, I first broke it up from 1 dose a day of 16 to 4 doses, Then Cut the doses in half.

- So I was taking 4 doses a day of 2 mg each and some days I would feel the urge too much to take my next dose early so I would and then made sure the next day I would go back to 4 doses of 2 mg .

- Then I stayed at 8 for about a month, and switched from 2 mg 4 times daily, to just 4 mg twice daily. morning and hour before bed.

- once at 8 mg daily for a month I was going to shoot for 4mg . I did the take a day off Idea for this. So I took a 36ish hours off my last dose was 8 mg, And then after the break I took 2 mg in the morning and then 2mg at night. and felt pretty much fine. The hours I had took off I had a super strong urge to dose and felt kinda gross and the shits coming on towards end.

- so after the 4 mg dose I jumped up to 6 mg the next day by just adding a midday/afternoon 2mg dose. then went down to 4 mg total again, and then stayed at it after mabye one more cycle like that. of up to 6 then down.

- So this is were things got hard. I was on 4 mg daily for about 2-3 months. I then wanted to shoot for as low as I could. I had been taking the 4 mg by two doses a day.

- I went to 2 mg by the same steps I talked about above and then once at 2 mg for about 2 weeks.

- Then I decided to cut it down to 1 mg and did it the same route as before. mind you ever since I got to 4 mg, things got alot harder to cut doses and it took alot more of my suggestions to time to lower the dose.

- now I have been at .5 to 1 mg a day for months now and will stay at this dose until I am off Probation. The day I am off probation is the day I am quiting this shit and getting actully clean and jump starting my life again.

- I hope this plan can help soomeone like it has done me. But I have said it before If you can just kick Heroin then just kick ..

- My sister is the one to give me the basics of this and then I refined these ideas and made them my own I hope you guys can use these thoughts and do the same to get you were you want to b.

 

[jamesBrown]

out of all ur many many posts today that is the one that i will agree with.. Im happy we agree on something.. anyway IF you relize all this why do u keep taking breaks adn going back to suboxone.. Im not trying to argue just trying to openly think with u. because this concept of urs i dont understand u insist that this isnt addiction at play.

i take suboxone because it improves the quality of my life. i can promise you that there is nothing wrong with that. there is no addictive behavior there. so are you telling me that taking a medication that improves the quality of my life is bad?

because, onec again, there are millions of people that take medication every single day to improve the quality of there life and I dont see you complaining to them about how they are addicts. what makes me so different?

 

[jamesBrown]

in what way is it improving ur quality of life.. please man im done being a dick u just irriated me when u played stupid.. the question i asked before is simple and ur running in circles.. please just tell me in what ways besides being an anti depressent does it improve the quality of your life.. my big point is ur quality would be better if u were sober. and also even better and more strongly founded in sobrity if u just kicked instead of going the weak way we both did with subs .. so what aspects is it improving and how is it doing this tell me what u feel think experinces.. because u know as well as me u use to talk about euphoria and energy boost and both of theses are addictive behaivior

..

if you';d just come clean with it all id drop it.. im really at my ropes end trying to help u relize that life can be far better w/o it and it isnt making u happy ect its a hinderence to ur growth and change.. and this is fact //// And also will you tell me what you are duel diagnosed with..

I have told you atleast a dozen times how it improves the quality of life.

I also have no clue what your definition of addictive behavo=ior is. Because you seem to be all over the place with it.

Before I say anything more to you, I want you to type out the exact definition that you think is the definition of "addict"....or "addictive behavior"

Because according to the medical community, the medications(or drug) you are taking, must negatively impact your life in atleast one way for you to be considered an addict. And there is not one way that suboxone negatively effects me. Therefore, no addict, no addictive behavior....end of story.

It helps me feel less depressed(just like hundreds of other medications people are prescribed every day of there lives)......it also gives me energy, allthough the energy probably comes from the ant-depressant properties, it gives me more "energy" to do thigns if im in a better mood(just like hundreds of medications people take every day of there lives)....and it can give me small amounts of euphoria which is also a part of the ant-depressant properties because the euphoria helps me have a better mood, but it mainly kills the pain I have from 18 years of hard athletic activity and about a dozen broken bones/injuries.....and it does this so I dont have to be taking a stronger painkilling narcotic that could possibly lead to addiction or have more serious side efffects.

In general.....it benefits me in many many ways, and all of those benefits, are things that people get from thousands of different medications everyday, all the time. I jsut happen to get them from one medication. And I am not addicted to the medication because I dont have to take it to live a normal, functioning, happy life....i just choose to sometimes because it can make my life even better. But when I choose not to take it, my life doesnt get bad all of a sudden because I need it....THAT would be addictive behavior. I think you are very confused about what addiction is because NOTHING about my situation suggests addictive behavior and yet you keep hounding me about it. WHy do you want me to be an addict so much? Why cant you just be happy that I am taking a medication just like millions of other people in the world, that benefits me? Why arent you asking all those other people about them being addicts? i really jsut dont get it? I am in no different scenario than any other person on a medication to help you live a better life, and yet you treat me like an addict in denial, even though i show NONE of the behaviors that make up an addict, atleast acccording to the medical communities definition of addiction.
I dont know what your definition od addiction is, but it must be unique if you truly believe I am an addict.
So please.....tell me what your definition of an addict is....I am dying to hear it....

 

[Georgie25]

All those "improvemts of quality life" can be said about drugs like heroin, oxy, etc. All drugs have their honeymoon fazes, but the fact is suboxone is addictive itself

 

[crushcamel]

All those "improvemts of quality life" can be said about drugs like heroin, oxy, etc. All drugs have their honeymoon fazes, but the fact is suboxone is addictive itself

Just because suboxone is addictive doesnt mean that someone who takes it is addicted to it. I hope that people have more of an open mind than that.

 

[Georgie25]

Just because suboxone is addictive doesnt mean that someone who takes it is addicted to it. I hope that people have more of an open mind than that.

Who said that? I said it's an addictive drug, and if people take it a lot their bound to become addicted if they lose control of their use along the way.

 

[SkagKush]

omg, a thread battle.....

 

[crushcamel]

Who said that? I said it's an addictive drug, and if people take it a lot their bound to become addicted if they lose control of their use along the way.

i agree

 

[SkagKush]

im sorry but bupe does increase quality of life

work
sleep
normal routine
more money

the list is endless

 

[crushcamel]

im sorry but bupe does increase quality of life

work
sleep
normal routine
more money

the list is endless

who says it doesnt improve the quality of life?

 

[SkagKush]

the OP

 

[DkBlaze1]

This is the definitions I think all of them apply to addiction..

Historically, addiction has been defined with regard solely to psychoactive substances (for example alcohol, tobacco and other drugs) which cross the blood-brain barrier once ingested, temporarily altering the chemical milieu of the brain. ( suboxone in no uncertain terms is this, this is rather broad though so i will center it more for you. I only wish to enlighten you to the fact that u are infact and addict and doing a huge disservice to all the folks that are stuck in addition and listen to you about your mislead ideas of suboxone and Its addiction ability ect. )

#2


The American Society of Addiction Medicine has this definition for Addiction[citation needed]: Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in the individual pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors. Addiction is characterized by impairment in behavioral control, craving, inability to consistently abstain, and diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships. Like other chronic diseases, addiction involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.


#3
According to the current Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV), substance dependence is defined as:

"When an individual persists in use of alcohol or other drugs despite problems related to use of the substance, substance dependence may be diagnosed. Compulsive and repetitive use may result in tolerance to the effect of the drug and withdrawal symptoms when use is reduced or stopped. This, along with Substance Abuse are considered Substance Use Disorders...." [5]
Substance dependence can be diagnosed with physiological dependence, evidence of tolerance or withdrawal, or without physiological dependence.

[/U][/B][/COLOR]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

 

[JASS92]

OP is a complete moron, and does not deserve or warrant the dignity of an informed response.

 

[SkagKush]

/ thread

 

[crushcamel]

im sry but that OP has no clue what he is talking about.

 

[curlygurl1980]

well to just b honest i havent totally read every word of tis thread but i think i get the just of it i have gone from 16mg to 1 mg of suboxone using james brown's tappering methods and have felt no withdrawels WHATSOEVER and i am planning over the next couple months to come off completly and i feel fantastic!!! (opiate addict of all kinds for ten years) suboxone changed my life it really did but everyone has a right to their own opinion ps. james brown u rock and have helped me tremendosly !!!

 

[crushcamel]

well to just b honest i havent totally read every word of tis thread but i think i get the just of it i have gone from 16mg to 1 mg of suboxone using james brown's tappering methods and have felt no withdrawels WHATSOEVER and i am planning over the next couple months to come off completly and i feel fantastic!!! (opiate addict of all kinds for ten years) suboxone changed my life it really did but everyone has a right to their own opinion ps. james brown u rock and have helped me tremendosly !!!

do you think jamesbrown is addicted to suboxone like DkBlaze1 said?