Tried it
I'm on 12mg/day SL. For some reason 12 hours after my morning 12mg dose, I'm able to shoot dilaudid and get high as a kite. I told me doc this and he bumped me up to 16...but also switched me to the tablets (even though I told him the prescribing info says the film has higher SL BA). Anyway came home, took 100mg hydroxyzine orally, 0.1m clonidine orally, a few klonopin, and plugged 24mg suboxone. Starting to feel a bit relaxed 1/2 hour later but that's probably the klonopin. I suspect pluggin 24mg was a waste, I shoulda at most plugged the same amount I use SL. (BTW 8mg SL doesn't hold me at all, by next morning diarrhea, back ache, runny nose etc. Even at 12 I still get diarrhea; only at 16 does it constipate me)/
I just want to feel SOMETHING like everyone claims they do when they plug. Cause in my experience, increasing dose of bup SL over my normal 12 has no effect at all, no matter how much more I take.
A comment about the shooting which I saw discussed earlier in this thread. (bad idea BTW). I've shot buprenex (pure buprenorphine made for injection) ampules IV, and I've shot suboxone IV. The subjective experience is definitely different. The buprenex is felt immediately, though "rush" is not a word I'd use to describe. Just a slight sense of ease. Then over 10 to 20 minutes the effects become more pronounced.
When I've IV'd suboxone (again, bad idea, glad I only did it a few times) I did not get the immediate feeling of relief. The same 10 to 20 minute window passed and I began to feel it. The naloxone is NOT just "placebo". Yes, bup has a higher affinity for the mu receptor; but affinities are an equilibrium. In other words, the naloxone and bup hit your receptors at the same time and start attaching. Bup has a much higher affinity, but when they both hit your brain at the same time that doesn't matter at first. Since this the binding affinity is an equilibrium constant, bup (and naloxone) are constantly letting go and reattaching. Most often the bup will win, but every now and then naloxone will hit the receptor first. Since it has a lower affinity, it will let go sooner, and probably be replace by bup. But bup doesn't "knock" naloxone off the receptor (I'm not aware of anything that actually causes a ligand to dissociate from a receptor); the naloxone will stay for whatever period of time it normally stays attached, then drift off, and probably be replaced by bup which will stick like glue. The equilibrium is driven by affinity and ratio of bup to naloxone; that's why a bup OD is treated with a constant naloxone drip. As the occasional bup drops off a receptor, the naloxone will replace it for a short time. Increase the amount of naloxone (the drip) and you drive the equilibrium more in favor of naloxone binding. This is a process constantly happening in the body hundreds of thousand of times a second -- ligands drop off the receptor, float around, and bind to another. Bup tends to do this far less than most things as it tends to not let go, but in the first few minutes after IV suboxone, the naloxone and bup are both grabbing receptors. Within a few minutes enough naloxone has dissociated that the bup occupies the majority of the receptor. If you already have bupe in your system, the naloxone has even less of a chance. This is why the effects of buprenex vs suboxone IV are different. Maybe not for everyone, and there are certainly people who say they feel the bup immediately when they IV sub (and I believe them). But I wonder if those people have ever IV'd pure buprenorphine for comparison. There was a time when I was not on BMT and I IV'd suboxone about affter 3 days free from any opiates and immediately got that cold "oh-shit" sensation of WD and had to evacuate my bowels; it went away in a few minutes. Pure bupe never did that.
Think back to your chem classes about equilibrium and how they can be driven in a certain direction by adding a component to one side. Then think back to your pharm classes about pharmacokinetics and binding affinities. Then it will make sense.
Now that I've totally diverted the thread, back on topic: feeling nicely relaxed now, but still just feels like it klonopin. Don't think increasing the bpu so much was necessary. But by god I'mm starting to nod a bit. Of course with that cocktail I'd probably be noding anyway. I do no recommend anyone take multiple sedative with a high bupe dose; I know my body and my meds and I have a very high benzo tolerance.
ok definitely nodding now. I;m off, gonna go operate some heavy machinery or use a table saw or maybe clean my gutters.