Bupe Suboxone Detox (getting on Vivitrol)

[hamwaggle]

So I am trying to keep this short, but basically I have been an opiate addict for about 4 years. Used to always be about the OCs until they fucked them into the OPs. Literally the day the last , were being given out was the last day I used them. I had a suboxone appointment the next day and SHOCKINGLY was clean for 1.5 years on suboxone. I got down to .5-1mg a day and eventually relapsed when this stupid kid gave me a heroin dealers number. I made it so far but within 1 week on my first heroin purchase I was banging it (something I NEVER had done)...1-2 months later my arms are fucking up with scars and my sub doctor knew I was using (after multiple failed tests). We had a meeting and she suggested using stopping the suboxone and using vivitrol. For those who aren't familiar, vivitrol is basically just narcan (naltrexone) that is injected once a month and it completely blocks the opiate receptors, so if you bang some H, you won't feel shit (supposably). Obviously before getting the shot you need to be completely rid of opiates because it is naloxone so it would send you into precipitated withdrawal if you had opiates in your system. I was so sick on being on suboxone and no matter how fucking much you believe that suboxone is NOT trading one drug for another...it really is. You are still getting semi-aganist opiates EVERYDAY and you brain is really not recovering. If my mother took 2mg of suboxone she would be knocked on her fucking ass....that to me is still being on opiates. So after coming to my senses I decided to stop taking the suboxone that very day and begin the detox so I can get the vivitrol shot the next week. My sub doctor is not like most, she is incredibly smart, very caring, and knows what the fuck she is doing. She is in no way in it for the cash, and from the 1.5-2 years I have been there, I swear to fucking GOD I have probably paid her about 400 bucks in co-pays AND THATS IT (granted I have good insurance). So to get to the point I was prescribed clonidine .1mg twice a day for withdrawal symptoms, promethazine (or phenergan) for nausea, high strength ibuprofen, and most importantly 25mg librium (Chlordiazepoxide) once during the day and two at night. Librium was the first benzodiazapine ever invented and is used often for alcohol withdrawal. It is a very long lasting benzo, but does not really have that HEAVYILY sedated effect like with xanax or valium, instead it's like a very mild valium over a fucking long ass time, which is perfect. I also was giving neurontin (gabapentin), which acts on the same GABA receptors for after the librium ran out (I have about 6-7 days worth of librium). Ironically I found the fucking clonidine to make me more fucked up than the librium, which is a benzo. At night, the combination of 50mg librium and .1 clonidine just passes me out, which is awesome.

But to get to the detox and how I feel. I was taking 4mg of subs a day (after my relapse she moved me up to this). I took my last suboxone dose on a Friday morning and 9 AM, 2mg only. Today it is late Sunday night and SHOCKINGLY I still feel completely normal. Granted I am aware of the half life of suboxone being 36 hours, and I have only been without it for 60 hours now, meaning that mathematically (ignoring exponential decay and shit) I should still have about .2-.4mg of suboxone in my system (probably less with exponential decay). Which is nothing, but still my body has not completely detoxed yet. But I honestly feel FUCKING FANTASTIC for an opiate junkie that had the will power to last about 2 minutes before giving in to a hit. I once knew I had a drug test the next day and if I failed I would have been cut off of subs AND my parents would kick me out of the house AND guess what I did...yep scored a gram of dope and shot it all in one night (they ended up sending the test away as I was adamant I hadn't used and convinced them it MUST be false positive, when the test came back I had so much fucking morphine in my piss it was comical, but for some fucking reason they just forgot about it, lol). But to get back to the real point of this, suboxone is honestly to me, just as bad as being on junk, granted I understand it allows you to live a normal life, hold a job, take care of your kids, TRUST ME I was on it for 2 years and thought it was a fucking miracle, but at the end of the day, you are still opiate dependant. I wanted to share my experience to show people that getting off suboxone IS NOT THAT BAD. I am one sleep away from being 72 hours clean and feel absolutely fantastic, actually I swear to GOD I feel better than I did when I was shooting 150 bucks of junk a day.

TO ANYONE ON SUBOXONE, please think about this...do you REALLY want to be on suboxone your ENTIRE life? Almost everyone is going to say no, no, no, of course not ME! just like I used to, but I promise you, no matter how long you are on it, you will eventually have to detox off it. So why not just get it over with now? I am proof right here and now that the detox has been absolutely the complete opposite of hell. I was DEATHLY afraid of withdrawal having experienced the worst fucking shit of my life while used oxys and heroin, so much so, that it got in the way of my recovery. I came to the realization the other day that I need to do eventually so FUCK IT, i'm doing it right now. I just graduated with a VERY good degree (in some fucking miraculous way), being a fucking junkie all the way through college. Although most jobs will not test for buprenorphine, just think, do you really want to be on this shit forever? MY advice is to find a doctor that seriously knows what she is doing, knows WHEN to write scripts, and the right ones. Last of all, TALK TO HER/HIM, be honest, tell her that you read VERY good things about someone online detoxing off suboxone using the meds I discussed above. The clonidine is honestly more important than the librium, but the librium definitely helps during the day and night to curb anxiety and help sleep.

I seriously apologize for this long ass post but I needed to vent to people that understand what it's like to be chained to an opiate drug, whether it be oxy, fent, hydro, methadone, morphine, whatever...and keep in mind this method will help for withdrawal from ALL opiates, not just buprenorphine and heroin.

I will not lie to all of you, I am purchasing some xanax bars tomorrow just in case the 4th day gets any worse, but my doc gave my a benzo already, so I figured adding a slightly more short acting, powerful one is okay.

My feelings on Suboxone are so incedibly mixed. It is a miracle drug in one way, and another opiate chain in another. I know the thought of detox is TERRIFYING and you need to tell you doctor this, but I promise if you get the meds I mentioned (which most DECENT sub docs are using), you will be SHOCKED at how easy it is.

Good luck to you all no matter where you are in your usage, detox, or recovery.

(Side Note)
For those of you who are not familiar with Vivitrol as an opiate dependecy tool basically what it is is a once a month injection into the ass that will slowly release naltrexone (narcan basically - an opiate antagonist) into your body over about 28 days. During that period you literally CANNOT get high off of opiates, no matter how hard you try. Now don't be a fucking idiot and load yourself up with 5 grams of dope trying to override it because you CAN STILL OVERDOSE, AND YOU WILL. My inner addict loved being on suboxone becuase I could get my month script, not take it, get high for 3 weeks, then stop the week before my next script appointment so I would piss clean, and could use the subs to go through 0 withdrawal. But is that REALLY recovery? As a long term addict I found myself rationalizing and even believing my own lies at times. I realized that with Vivitrol even if I have that STRONG earge to score, I would be waisting my money because I would feel absolutely no pleasure from the hit. This is what I need.

I will update you on my detox and also when I get the Vivitrol shot.

Again sorry for the LONG post.

(

 

[DooMMooD]

I will not lie to all of you, I am purchasing some xanax bars tomorrow just in case the 4th day gets any worse, but my doc gave my a benzo already, so I figured adding a slightly more short acting, powerful one is okay.

I only ask that you please not rant about how you've "found the solution to drug abuse" when you then go out and abuse drugs. Think about this for a bit. You might've stopped using suboxone, but it sounds like you are far from stopping your use altogether.

Sounds like youre still afraid to face life. Especially sounds like youre afraid to face it sober. Just my 2 cents.

I mean have you told your doctor you went out and scored xanax? You're preaching an awful lot about being honest/truthful with your doc...

 

[ArtVandalay]

"My inner addict loved being on suboxone becuase I could get my month script, not take it, get high for 3 weeks, then stop the week before my next script appointment so I would piss clean, and could use the subs to go through 0 withdrawal. But is that REALLY recovery?"

You're not using suboxone correctly, so don't say to those that are that they're just "trading one drug for another." I've been on suboxone for 11 months now and haven't touched another drug. It's changed my life in so many positive ways- I exercise regularly, quit smoking, volunteer, work hard, improved my relationships with others. It's drastically reduced my anxiety. Through intensive therapy, NA and drug counseling, I've changed my drug-seeking, addict brain. I no longer think in the short-term like I used to- my world has opened up. I think this is how 'normal' people see things. Anyway, I digress. What I'm saying if you use soboxone correctly it's more than a simple drug replacement.

 

[hamwaggle]

When did I ever say I found the solution to drug abuse? and I ended up not purchasing any other benzos because today (80 hours) I feel absolutely normal and do not need any other drugs. I have taken under 10 benzo pills in my ENTIRE life, so it's not like I am trading suboxone for a benzo addiction. I never was a huge fan of being a walking zombie and sleeping all the time. I know us addicts can tend to do that, but like I said I could easily call my doc and say the librium isn't strong enough and she would give me some valium (she told me that). So far I have NOT called her, have NOT bought any street pharm and am taking every med exactly as she told me to (for once). I feel great getting off this shit. Best wishes.

 

[Gordon]

My suboxone WDs hit me 2 weeks after jumping off, and this was from a tiny dose after a long slow taper. Just be careful is all I can say. I have used revia/naltrexione in the past to get off suboxone but put me in withdrawals for a long time, I forgot to mention that. That is a route I will never take, I remember I had to go the E.R room because the shot of neltrexone just got my head spinning, do not take revia/naltrexone while on suboxone/subutex.... I also had P.A.W.S for 4 months. I do believe its linked to the suboxone or subutex which I was taking. Any meds you take your only masking the withdrawals. Just be prepared if the WDs hit. I had so much half life in my system that it actually took around 2 weeks to feel deep into subutex withdrawals. Hardest thing I ever had to go through. Unfortunately am on the subutex because the P.A.W.S were too much. I have not met seen anybody to come off subutex without WDs, so if you arent feeling anything now then give it a couple of weeks, do not get dependent on libruim or any other meds, these only work on a temporarily basis but once you come off them you will feel the sub WDs granted. You also have to withdraw from the meds your taking too.

 

[hamwaggle]

I appreciate your response but must say that I took 0 librium or clonidine today and had the energy to ride my bike and play tennis in 100 degree weather. My back aches more than normal, but the ibuprofen seems to ACTUALLY help (I remember I used to laugh at people who took ibuprofen because I would take 80mg of oxy for a back ache lol). I know the half life of buprenorphine is around 36 hours, but with my last 2mg dose Friday 9 A.M theoretically I should have excreted nearly all of it by now. My doc is testing me for bupe before giving me the vivitrol to make sure, but do you think there is a chance the vivitrol puts me into straight withdrawal? i'm scared now....it's been TOO easy, and that worries me.

 

[Vaya]

Hamwaggie,

I believe your post has generated a discussion that can't help but be more appropriate for Other Drugs. I have moved your thread HERE.

PM me with any questions. Be well!

TDS>>>OD

~ Vaya

 

[ErikTheRed]

You're right that Suboxone has an insidious side, but telling people to just get off it ASAP is bad idea. I think the best part about Suboxone is that it allows you to hold off full scale detox until a time you are ready, whether that is for mental reasons, financial reasons or whatever.

In my case, I've got several mental issues that led me to opiates in the first place. So I think I'll have a helluva better chance at getting off suboxone once I'm in a stronger mental space to do so.

 

[Gordon]

If you have been on suboxone for over a year and then if you step off from 2mg you are not going to go without WDs. Do not forget all the other half lives of the doses you took previously. 2mg dose is equivalent to about 3 months of side affects including P.A.W.S. Just because 36 hours passed it does not mean the sub is out of your system. Do not forget your receptors where sub lingers on for a very long time. Never have I spoke to anybody who jumped off suboxone, subutex. buprenorphine, buprenex and had no WDs, especially when its 2mg your stepping off from after being on it for the long term. It took me around 1 month just to get rid of 0.125 worth of subutex and I was only on it for 2 years as compared to many patients who have taken it for 4 or 5 years. Remember it took me 2 weeks to feel side affects/WDs, so am just saying be prepared and mentally ready if or when the WDs including these damn P.A.W.S come on top of you. No medication gets rid of subuutex or suboxone WDs granted. Sub is like no other, I did everything possible and took everything possible and nothing helped, if anything just prolonged the misery. Sub lingers on in the receptors for a very long time thus why everybody gets long drawn out P.A.W.S coupled with depression.

Anyhows good luck in your quest for being clean.

 

[Gordon]

The suboxone only helps in the short term. The longer your on it the less interested you are in things you were prior to suboxone or subutex. The longer you take it the more chance you can lose your job, your spouse, your zest and motivation for life and even close family. Its still an opiod do not forget. You get in a fog like state, you become a zombie, you feel so over medicated and you hate the day and mornings. Everybody who has taken sub for half a year verifies that. Surely there are alternatives. Sub also in my view contributes to any mental issues, everybody said I came across like I was on something and looked as though I had mental issues, am not the only one but many who go through the exact same phase. If everybody complains of the same symptoms everyday about being on suboxone or subutex then surely there is wisdom on the advice of getting of the sub train A.S.A.P. Its the same thing as heroin in my opinion except its legal and longer lasting but boring. And oh the WDs are longer and P.A.W.S are exhausting and morally derailing. You can even take clonidine instead of sub to be stable in a job, you can even take loperamaide to sort yourself out from your original choice of doc (drug or pain pills). I never had symptoms such as depression and insomnia for sooooo long as I did with coming off sub. Being on sub mkaes you so bored, so shyte, so low and so numb that you badly want to come off, and when that time comes your more or less feeling the same except your not on the sub anymore. I wish they can tak sub off the market and warn the potential damaging affects it can do, not just to our bodies, liver, brain and whatever but also to our life.

 

[hamwaggle]

Quick update -

I successfully made it 7 days without subs and got my vivitrol injection yesterday morning. After the shot I had absolutely ZERO energy and could barely stand, however within 2 hours, 25mg librium, .1mg clonodine I felt fine and actually went out to the tennis course that day after being barely able to stand. My guess is that there was a TINY TINY bit of bupe still in my system even though I tested negative for bupe and opiates (there are cut off levels). The first night I sleep only one hour, but it did not feel like I was in withdrawal, instead my mind was just racing and kept reciting songs the entire night. 25mg of librium is a very weak dose and a weak benzo so I may try to get some valium to help tonight if the insomnia continues. I feel fine today though, besides lack of sleep.

 

[DooMMooD]

Still incredibly curious as to whether or not you told your doctor you went out and scored a bunch of xanax.

When did I ever say I found the solution to drug abuse? and I ended up not purchasing any other benzos because today (80 hours) I feel absolutely normal and do not need any other drugs. I have taken under 10 benzo pills in my ENTIRE life, so it's not like I am trading suboxone for a benzo addiction. I never was a huge fan of being a walking zombie and sleeping all the time. I know us addicts can tend to do that, but like I said I could easily call my doc and say the librium isn't strong enough and she would give me some valium (she told me that). So far I have NOT called her, have NOT bought any street pharm and am taking every med exactly as she told me to (for once). I feel great getting off this shit. Best wishes.

IMO sounds like justifications as to why benzos are ok now and how its not a problem for you "because you never take benzos ever and dont like them so you wont have a problem with them".

I've heard dozens of people say the same thing about whatever drug "oh well i dont even LIKE the drug THAT MUCH so I wont be addicted to it" "Oh well I dont even have a regular source for X drugs so its not a problem!" "Oh well I rarely take Y drug so its no big deal that I went out and scored a bunch of it while in recovery".

I mean did you even realize you told us you bought a buncha xanax from someone other than your doc, then in this post said "But since i started this doc i havent bought ANY street drug and am taking the medicines exactly as prescribed" ....besides all the xanax you bought? In your post right above this one, you said "I might go score some valium" comeon man...Lets call a spade a spade.

You say in your first post you scored some xanax, then in your next "oh well i'm not replacing opis with benzos, I coulda just got benzos from my doc i'm not doing/buying street drugs" then in the NEXT post say "i am possibly going to score some valium". Just look at that and be brutally honest amigo...You dont need to try and convince me why its 'different' or 'its ok for you', because A) my mind is made up, you will not convince me, B) you will only be trying to convince yourself because C) its bullshit addict logic.

Dont wanna be a dick, just telling you what I am observing. Youre not that far into your recovery, i suggest you take your own advice that is be honest & tell your doc what you did, as well as outside advice. Just my 2 cents man, take it or leave it

I will continue to hope that you stay strong and give the middle finger to the opiates for the rest of your life. I know how hard it is, and regardless of what you may think I AM PULLING FOR YOU. Which is why I am being brutally honest: I aint gonna lie to you and tell you bullshit, I am shooting straight because I believe it will help you.

EDIT: Also for your own reference, exponential decay is half life, half life is just a specific term for exponential decay of half of the original substance. Not trying to sound like a stuck up or anything just letting you know because you were talking about it correctly but using the term as if they were two different things.

 

[Ashley]

Has anyone on here had any real success with injected naltrexone (Vivitrol) in treating opiate addiction?

 

[hamwaggle]

I ended up not purchasing any other benzos because today (80 hours) I feel absolutely normal and do not need any other drugs. I have taken under 10 benzo pills in my ENTIRE life, so it's not like I am trading suboxone for a benzo addiction.

I never bought any if you read my post. I got the Vivtrol shot on friday and feel better than ever. No more librium or clonodine or anything. The only thing I take now is 600mg ibuprofen for my back and gabapentin, if necessary, at night (so far I have taken none as I read some bad stuff about it, but my doc says it's non-addictive).

 

[hamwaggle]

Ashley,

Although I am very early with my experience with Vivitrol I am a total supporter of it. Especially if either you or your SO is not on suboxone or methadone maintenance. As addicts, we can also try and most likely succeed in beating the system. Even getting drug tested weekly on suboxone (they would even test if bupe was in your system to see if your taking it) I would take 2mg the day before the test to test positive, then use for 2 or 3 days, stop, take suboxone to avoid any sickness and stop using to I would test negative for opiates but positive for bupe. I did this for about a month before getting caught and getting on the Vivitrol. The Vivitrol completely blocks the opiate receptors for a month, so even if you or your SO tried to use, you would get no pleasure from it. THAT to me is an incredible benefit and I do believe it works.

 

[scottd420]

Still incredibly curious as to whether or not you told your doctor you went out and scored a bunch of xanax.




IMO sounds like justifications as to why benzos are ok now and how its not a problem for you "because you never take benzos ever and dont like them so you wont have a problem with them".

I've heard dozens of people say the same thing about whatever drug "oh well i dont even LIKE the drug THAT MUCH so I wont be addicted to it" "Oh well I dont even have a regular source for X drugs so its not a problem!" "Oh well I rarely take Y drug so its no big deal that I went out and scored a bunch of it while in recovery".

I mean did you even realize you told us you bought a buncha xanax from someone other than your doc, then in this post said "But since i started this doc i havent bought ANY street drug and am taking the medicines exactly as prescribed" ....besides all the xanax you bought? In your post right above this one, you said "I might go score some valium" comeon man...Lets call a spade a spade.

You say in your first post you scored some xanax, then in your next "oh well i'm not replacing opis with benzos, I coulda just got benzos from my doc i'm not doing/buying street drugs" then in the NEXT post say "i am possibly going to score some valium". Just look at that and be brutally honest amigo...You dont need to try and convince me why its 'different' or 'its ok for you', because A) my mind is made up, you will not convince me, B) you will only be trying to convince yourself because C) its bullshit addict logic.

Dont wanna be a dick, just telling you what I am observing. Youre not that far into your recovery, i suggest you take your own advice that is be honest & tell your doc what you did, as well as outside advice. Just my 2 cents man, take it or leave it

I will continue to hope that you stay strong and give the middle finger to the opiates for the rest of your life. I know how hard it is, and regardless of what you may think I AM PULLING FOR YOU. Which is why I am being brutally honest: I aint gonna lie to you and tell you bullshit, I am shooting straight because I believe it will help you.

EDIT: Also for your own reference, exponential decay is half life, half life is just a specific term for exponential decay of half of the original substance. Not trying to sound like a stuck up or anything just letting you know because you were talking about it correctly but using the term as if they were two different things.

DooM, chill out bud. You need to stop worrying about other peoples problems and focus on your own. Maybe some credit should be given for the guy even attempting to get clean. Yes he may not be in the clear, but he seems to be going about things the right way. He stated he actually didn't go out and get that Xanax incase of emergency, and when he mentioned about getting Valium, not scoring Valium, it was because he was only sleeping one hour per night, which is not feasable. His doctor offered this proposition to him, so leave the guy be. After talking all that shit you better be clean and not an addict yourself or you haven't room to say a word. If you are, keep on keeping on and offer advice, don't tear people apart. Maybe he's having an easier time than you and this bothers you, I don't know, but let the guy do his thing and offer positive experience.

 

[chase_in_56ace]

Also. Wondering about other personal vivitrol experiences...

 

[hamwaggle]

It's relatively new for opiate dependency but my doc seems to really be pushing it now for people who are at low suboxone levels or come in already have gone through withdrawal. The mental fact that you know you can't get high and beat the system no matter what is so significant that I think we will start seeing a lot more experiences with it.

 

[DooMMooD]

DooM, chill out bud.....

Strangely enough, I am very chilled. I am not angry or trying to be personal in the slightest, I say basically the same thing to ANYONE who is in this type of boat. I've learned being honest and straight is the #1 key to being clean. I wont sugar coat it, I WONT sit here and say "Oh keep doing what youre doing you'll be fine!" Because thats a load of shit and I guarantee 9/10 people on here know that in their heart of hearts.

SO, if youre gonna preach about being honest and clean with your doc you better be doing it.

This may "be a game" but I'll tell ya it'll cost you your fuckin LIFE if you lose. I think the OP and this other dude might end up DYING fi he keeps doing what hes doing, why the FUCK would i not try and stop him from killing himself?

There is not one reason to "chill out" about someone working slowly towards their own death. I guess you dont take it as seriously as I do but when you lose the game of addiction you either die or end up in prison, thats a fact.

I'm pulling for him (believe it or not) and he IS doing better, but I aint gonna sit here and dunk it in sweetness. Its the honest truth, if you dont like it it sucks but I know i'm right and so do most people with any significant amount of clean time.

 

[hamwaggle]

I am slightly confused as to who you are talking about. I posted about how I got completely clean off opiates (suboxone being a partial agonist), not how I am digging deeper and deeper into addiction shooting dope. I could understand you posting stuff like that on a thread about someone who is getting in deep but clearly I am going the opposite way. I take nothing now, no clonidine, no librium, no anything except ibuprofen occasionally and feel fucking fantastic. I am being social again and getting back into a normal life thanks to Vivitrol and NA.

Btw buddy half life and exponential decay are not interchangeable. You can have exponential decay half life and non-exponential decay half life.