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Bupe Suboxone Conspiracy to ruin addicts teeth

Jnowhere said:
Part of the problem is the politicians think they know more than doctors.
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True. And the doctors think they always know more than the patients. And that patients can't possibly know what's good for themselves. In a lot of cases this can be ture though, as there's plenty of dumb people in our society. But I digress.

My recent psychiatrist tried lying to me & saying it was "illegal" for her to prescribe stimulants to some one on Suboxone. I called her out & told her that was a lie & it's not illegal at all & there's plenty of people on both subs & a stimulant. Then she switched it to "well it's dangerous to be on uppers & downers at the same time". Which is also a lie. Sure, if you're banging coke & heroin at the same time, you could run into some dangers. But taking a theraputic dose of amphetamine ontop of buprenorphine isn't inherently "dangerous" at all. But I wasn't going to fight with her anymore. She clearly was hoping I'd just be another ignorant person who doesn't question their treatment at all, but I'm not that stupid.

American healthcare is it's own kind of crooked corruption & what you said is also a big part of that too.

My sub doc once threw me on Vraylar when it came out. I took it out of desperation to get relief from my depression. Just one dose caused me to lose the ability to drive (due to balance issues) for an entire week. And I looked it up & discovered the shit had a 25 DAY half life (I shoulda looked it up ahead of time). I also started having eyelid spasms non-stop, every day, all day. Even for 5 months after. And that was from taking it ONCE!!!

I can't help but think my doc had a financial incentive to throw that shit at me. I like my sub doc for the most part, but still. It seems reckless & irresponsible to just throw people onto powerful psychotropic drugs like that. Especially since I don't have psychosis or anything like that. Who knows what would have happened if I kept taking it. I'd be better off taking heroin or a full agonist opioid every day, without worrying about losing my ability to drive or having my eyelids going crazy all day.

Anyway, I can go on & on about this stuff, so I'll shut up now. lol
 
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DeathIndustrial88 said:
This post is part fun / part serious. I also think it needs to be discussed.

I've been on Suboxone for about 8 years now. Originally started with generic subutex while I waited for insurance to cover brand name Suboxone. And then eventually insurance quit covering brand name & switched to generic only.

I've noticed that EVERY SINGLE Suboxone generic contains artificial flavorings, citric acid & artificial colors. All which lead to tooth loss & tooth decay.


Yet, Subutex & generic subutex generally contains no colorings, no citric acid & no artificial flavorings. While also happening to be stigmatized & wrongly professed to be a "more abusable" version of buprenorphine. Which we all know isn't true.


Anyone who knows even a modicum of pharmacology knows that the naloxone in Suboxone/Generic Suboxone is completely pointless.


So why is Suboxone & it's generics loaded with shit that rots your teeth? I could ALMOST understand if buprenorphine had a real foul taste, but as some one who's once had generic mono-bupe, it has almost no taste at all really. So why are they doing this?


I brought this up to my sub doc recently in hopes she would switch me to mono buprenorphine & I could save my teeth, but she basically said there was nothing we could do about it. Which means either she's afraid to prescribe mono-buprenorphine or just didn't care about my concerns. I know she knows the naloxone is pointless. but perhaps the DEA harasses doctors more if they prescribe subutex? I don't understand the problem of switching me.


There is absolutely no reason why Suboxone generics need to be loaded with flavorings. These are adults taking these medicines, not children, so why do I need "artificial lemon-lime flavoring" with my meds? It's really irritating.


At this point I truly believe it's being done to ruin the dental health of addicts, which can then also be used to further perpetuate stereotypes that "opioids ruin your looks". I've been on at least 7 different types of generic suboxone & every single one was loaded with teeth-rotting additives.


Anyone else ever think about this?
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i was on mono-bup for 11 months and still had 35% gum recession
 
Gaz_hmmmm said:
How the hell do you spit out the naloxone from Suboxone or generic buprenorphine and naloxone?

They're mixed together throughout the pill.
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Because naloxone isn't very active sublingually, but it is orally. So whatever juice is left in your mouth after a few minutes is generally concentrated fillers & the naloxone.

Sublingual naloxone has a bioavailability of around 3%


'Sublingual bioavailability of naloxone was estimated to be about 3% in the first US FDA-approved buprenorphine/naloxone formulation (USFDA, 2002; Strickland et al., 2018). When BNX is taken sublingually as prescribed, naloxone is believed to exert no clinically significant effect due to its low sublingual bio-availability, leaving the opioid agonist effects of buprenorphine to predominate."

So if it's not absorbing under the tongue or in the mouth very well, it's safe to say that it retains itself in the juice/spit that builds up while you're waiting.

However there's debate around whether it's more than 3% or not.

It's not really active no matter how you take it, since buprenorphine has a higher binding affinity anyway.
But if I have the choice to spit out all that gunk or swallow it, then I'm gonna spit it out. No point in swallowing it anyway, since it's mostly inactives & naloxone.
 
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DeathIndustrial88 said:
Because naloxone isn't very active sublingually, but it is orally. So whatever juice is left in your mouth after a few minutes is generally concentrated fillers & the naloxone.

Sublingual naloxone has a bioavailability of around 3%


'Sublingual bioavailability of naloxone was estimated to be about 3% in the first US FDA-approved buprenorphine/naloxone formulation (USFDA, 2002; Strickland et al., 2018). When BNX is taken sublingually as prescribed, naloxone is believed to exert no clinically significant effect due to its low sublingual bio-availability, leaving the opioid agonist effects of buprenorphine to predominate."

So if it's not absorbing under the tongue or in the mouth very well, it's safe to say that it retains itself in the juice/spit that builds up while you're waiting.

However there's debate around whether it's more than 3% or not.

It's not really active no matter how you take it, since buprenorphine has a higher binding affinity anyway.
But if I have the choice to spit out all that gunk or swallow it, then I'm gonna spit it out. No point in swallowing it anyway, since it's mostly inactives & naloxone.
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Sorry to laugh, but I needed a laugh.
Basically, spit don't swallow, lol
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
Nope.
I'm on state insurance (medicaid) and when you're on that, it's really difficult to even find a dentist office that will accept you. And since I'm in the city, there's a huge waiting list. It's ridiculous.
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Sorry if off topic but America pays for dental? We have universal health here in Canada but not for dental. If you're poor here you'll lose your teeth
 
Jen X said:
Sorry if off topic but America pays for dental? We have universal health here in Canada but not for dental. If you're poor here you'll lose your teeth
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They ‘say’ they do, but most places don’t accept my insurance or will only pay a very (if any) certain little amount. All of the dental work I have had to get after my broken jaw & everything dental that came with it I have all had to pay myself & put on multiple credit cards.
 
Jen X said:
Sorry if off topic but America pays for dental? We have universal health here in Canada but not for dental. If you're poor here you'll lose your teeth
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Sort of.

Basically what AngelsandFairies said.

It can depend on the state as well too.


For example, when I lived in Iowa, if you had low income, you could easily apply for medicaid & medicaid covered dental. But it was hard to find a place that accepted medicaid.

But then when I moved to the state I'm in now, the only way I was able to get on medicaid was to apply for SSI (a type of disability for low income people). And only after being accepted for SSI do you get full medicaid benefits. And even then, I think medicaid only covers up to like $2,000 or something like that (or at least that's what I read). And we all know dental visits come to a lot more than just 2k.

I also haven't been able to get into a dentist yet (gotta wait til July, been waiting 6 months almost already) in order to see how much will be covered or what they'll do.


So yeah, they say they'll cover dental, but then most places won't accept it & even if they do, it might only cover a little.
 
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