Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v16.0

[Not Again]

That leads me to another question. Saying that oxy is easier to wd from. What if someone gets to 1 mg sub and then switches over to 20 mg oxy and weens down from there? Sounds redundant but if the wd's are not as long why not?

So use sub to get your opiate intake level way down. Then jump to 20???mg oxy and go down to just 5 mg oxy and jump from there. Is that stupid? At 5 mg oxy If you got stable at 5mg oxy or hydro I know stopping would be very easy with no effects to speak of.

That was just an idea, I have no plan of doing that.

 

[Jabberwocky]

all this subox talk is starting to get redundant. how about you go to the Dr. and do what he says. and if its you planning on doing it yourself just ask ANY of the 100's of people on here how to plan a detox. each and every day we are talking about what dose works best w/ what drug, how much of the drug is equivalent to that dose, how long after last use must you wait, how soon to get sick, etc. starting to get whacky in this place.

anyway, I did my usual 16MG subox today and then took a time release adderall 20MG and felt great all day. work day flew by and at night smoked some weed and just got tired and now just chilling reading these posts. so I guess what I am trying to say is... you need 16MG subox, haha.

 

[BlueHues]

all this subox talk is starting to get redundant. how about you go to the Dr. and do what he says. and if its you planning on doing it yourself just ask ANY of the 100's of people on here how to plan a detox. each and every day we are talking about what dose works best w/ what drug, how much of the drug is equivalent to that dose, how long after last use must you wait, how soon to get sick, etc. starting to get whacky in this place.

anyway, I did my usual 16MG subox today and then took a time release adderall 20MG and felt great all day. work day flew by and at night smoked some weed and just got tired and now just chilling reading these posts. so I guess what I am trying to say is... you need 16MG subox, haha.

You posting at all and reading your fucking bullshit is what's really starting to get redundant...

One second you're telling people to ignore their doctor's and listen to what big bad dope fiends who have been using grams a day for 10= years have to say...then in the next breath, you're telling people to "listen to their doctor"...

The problem is, you're either too stupid or too lazy to actually seek out the information on your own and actually read up on buprenorphine as a drug...Believe it or not, there's people on BL that know a thing or two more than a north Boston, townie scumbag who shot cut-down Mass grams for five years such as yourself! Why don't you find out what the fuck you're talking about before you open your big, stupid, ignorant mouth?

 

[stray cat]

lol. THE BATTLE RAGES ON!

 

[Not Again]

You posting at all and reading your fucking bullshit is what's really starting to get redundant...

One second you're telling people to ignore their doctor's and listen to what big bad dope fiends who have been using grams a day for 10= years have to say...then in the next breath, you're telling people to "listen to their doctor"...

The problem is, you're either too stupid or too lazy to actually seek out the information on your own and actually read up on buprenorphine as a drug...Believe it or not, there's people on BL that know a thing or two more than a north Boston, townie scumbag who shot cut-down Mass grams for five years such as yourself! Why don't you find out what the fuck you're talking about before you open your big, stupid, ignorant mouth?

You know what? I'm so tired of reading his crap to . I tried to ignore his BS but it's like bipolar. He flips out and talks crap and then he's ok . I just ignore people that talk stupid.

Just ignore him. There's no reason to let something this stupid bother you or I. I'm looking for the ignore function right now.

Edit I found it. Now I can learn something without the crap:

This message is hidden because BostonBrownTown is on your ignore list.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You posting at all and reading your fucking bullshit is what's really starting to get redundant...

One second you're telling people to ignore their doctor's and listen to what big bad dope fiends who have been using grams a day for 10= years have to say...then in the next breath, you're telling people to "listen to their doctor"...

The problem is, you're either too stupid or too lazy to actually seek out the information on your own and actually read up on buprenorphine as a drug...Believe it or not, there's people on BL that know a thing or two more than a north Boston, townie scumbag who shot cut-down Mass grams for five years such as yourself! Why don't you find out what the fuck you're talking about before you open your big, stupid, ignorant mouth?

dude, lets face it. if you are a true fucking junkie then you should know by now. this isnt a fucking game. you wanna get clean go see a Dr. you wanna attempt to get clean get w/ a friend or get someone to help out. enough of the fucking pill dosing and what is equivalent to what. how about when you wake up not sick and feeling like a normal human being all day is what you want? imagine that.

nah, lets ask BlueHues to cut that my dosage based on height, weight, location, sex drive, height, weight, drug of choice, how much you paid for it, where it was found on the streets, and how many people you blew to get your score. then he can come up w/ your subox # cuz he's a god damn wizard when talking about the 1.5MG subox he's done for a year and it worked. wow. he's awesome.

YOU FUCKING IDIOT>

 

[RTrain]

Oh boy, Just clicked into here and see the battle rages on. Haven't read it yet and I don't even know if I want to to actually. rea........... wait, on second thought I definitely do, its great f'ing hilarious.

Yea, the half-life plays a huge role in the withdrawals. An equivalent dose of oxy is usually easier to quit because while using the oxy your body has times when there is little to no oxy in your system, so your brain is still familiar with operating without any drugs so when it's finally without them it's not as much of a shock.

With suboxone you have it in your system 24/7 so your brain is so used to having the sub in it that stopping is pretty difficult since you go from bupe all the time to no bupe at all. Compare that to oxy where you are going from oxy for maybe half the day, then going back to normal for a bit which is when you start feeling sick between doses.

Yea I was going to basically type the same thing but didn't have the time to get into that.

To further illustrate why w/d from 2 mg bupe/day isn't like 40 mg of oxy/day you can look at the fact that taking a steady dose of Sub just keeps building on itself, since 24 hours is not enough time for more than 1 half life to elapse. Until it ends up evening out to be like you are on a steady amount that is higher than the 2 mg dose. While a single dose of oxycodone will pass around 6 half lives in a 24 hour period.

 

[Not Again]

Just incase I'll post a screen shot of the last message so there is no need to even worry about me anymore.

 

[BlueHues]

you wanna get clean go see a Dr. you wanna attempt to get clean get w/ a friend or get someone to help out. enough of the fucking pill dosing and what is equivalent to what. how about when you wake up not sick and feeling like a normal human being all day is what you want? imagine that

^This right here is clear cut evidence of your inability to make any sense whatsoever!

 

[Jabberwocky]

^This right here is clear cut evidence of your inability to make any sense whatsoever!

* This right hit is what makes you queer.

was that one better?

bye.

 

[RTrain]

That leads me to another question. Saying that oxy is easier to wd from. What if someone gets to 1 mg sub and then switches over to 20 mg oxy and weens down from there? Sounds redundant but if the wd's are not as long why not?

So use sub to get your opiate intake level way down. Then jump to 20???mg oxy and go down to just 5 mg oxy and jump from there. Is that stupid? At 5 mg oxy If you got stable at 5mg oxy or hydro I know stopping would be very easy with no effects to speak of.

That was just an idea, I have no plan of doing that.

I actually have considered that. Thats walking a slippery slope. You are much better off weening down to very small doses like .1 or at least .2 mg a day. Then, if that is a bit rough, use some loperamide in doses of 15-25 mg and ween those down from there. Obviously the big concern here is suffering a full relapse in trying to use a full agonist in small doses. Getting a taste of that full agonist opiate and its hard to just settle for small doses. I kind of tried this when I was using poppy seed tea daily for around 5 or 6 weeks. I was put in a spot where I had to w/d, those w/d's are long, too, so I got oxycodone because I'd cold turkeyed it beforeand I knew it was doable. Didn't work too well, I just ended up hooked on the oxy until I got some Subs and cleaned up with those.

Its one of those theoretically good idea, most certainly plausible but it'd a big time test of will. The real downfall of the idea is how you would need to keep dosing the percs/vics or whatever you used to hold off the Sub w/d because they are short acting, and you got to do that for weeks. I think maybe you could pop a 5 or 10 mg perc every night to get some sleep, past that you tempt the fine line of easing w/d and re-developing your old habit.

 

[BlueHues]

Theoretically, you can taper heroin...if you can pull it off it's probably better...Its hard to pull off though...I actually gave my parents 100 bags of heroin and came up with a schedule. It didnt work, I cheated everyday. Once youre fully on bupe or methadone, its tough...Some people may not want to hear that, but thats the reality.

Once youve been through it a few times, no matter how strung out you are, you think twice. If you want to be on ridiculously high doses for life, there's no problem....
Methadone and bupe both work well for short term detox too...Its that middle ground where you only wanna use it for a few months where the naive get fucked!

Its still doable, just give yourself time to adjust to the drops...

 

[RTrain]

^Thats about the only way to taper heroin. Someone else to control the dosing and a large amount of the same batch so the potency doesn't vary.

I agree if you want to detox and not maintain for a long time then its best to act fast. Shouldn't setup the taper to last more than 2 months, which is ample time to cut down in a bupe taper. Nothing wrong with maintaining either. If you want to get control of things and you know once free from using opiates at all you are almost certainly going to relapse. At that point you have to readjust the plans if you do want to cut the Subs out. If you are taking 8+ mg for over a year its not going to be as easy to just rapidly taper, probably want to take your time with it. Really at that point there is no reason to not make it a long taper, haste will make waste as they say.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

I agree that a short acting opiate taper sounds good on paper....but I've only seen one or two people pull it off. In my mind it's just trading seats on the Titanic. Better just to taper low on sub...
Sub WD isn't horrendous, but it sure tests your fortitude.
There's a good book called "brain in Balance" written by a addiction specialist, and he says ANY opiate depletes the brain enough of endorphins and it takes on average 6 weeks to get back to "normal". I think that's sure the case with LAOs. That was about my timeline. It took 6 weeks to feel 80% normal. I cheated a bit with Kratom and lopermide on days that I was just about to give up.
Sub was fairly easy for me to taper. I only ran into real trouble below .5mg. It's the STOPPING part that sucks. You have to be prepared for it to suck.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Theoretically, you can taper heroin...if you can pull it off it's probably better...Its hard to pull off though...I actually gave my parents 100 bags of heroin and came up with a schedule. It didnt work, I cheated everyday. Once youre fully on bupe or methadone, its tough...Some people may not want to hear that, but thats the reality.

Once youve been through it a few times, no matter how strung out you are, you think twice. If you want to be on ridiculously high doses for life, there's no problem....
Methadone and bupe both work well for short term detox too...Its that middle ground where you only wanna use it for a few months where the naive get fucked!

Its still doable, just give yourself time to adjust to the drops...

serious question.. why is bupe SO HARD TO TAPER FROM!? esp. under Dr. supervision? I dont understand. I've had multiple junkie friends come through w/ the taper under Dr. orders. We are talking 6 months to 2 years type programs but it worked and worked fine.

another question: if you are scripted and it's $15/mo, then what is the RUSH to get off the subox? why is it holding you back? why even chance what once ruined your life? I've said it before and ill say it again, this thing saved my fucking life this time around. I could not possibly feel any better or more confident w/ just my morning dosage (high dosage) of subox. sure, we can say im still in the cloud stage but it's been a god damn 4 months and all is fucking good for once.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^^

The rush to get off to some people is that the longer you are on the suboxone, the more difficult it becomes to come off of it. If you stay on that stuff for years, you're going to have a really rough time detoxing off it, even if you do take it slow and do it correctly. Maintenance is not for everyone. Everyone has their own reasons for a quick taper or longterm treatment.. If that works for you, great.. but you're the one always preaching that everyone is different.. so there it is.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

another question: if you are scripted and it's $15/mo, then what is the RUSH to get off the subox? why is it holding you back? why even chance what once ruined your life? I've said it before and ill say it again, this thing saved my fucking life this time around. I could not possibly feel any better or more confident w/ just my morning dosage (high dosage) of subox. sure, we can say im still in the cloud stage but it's been a god damn 4 months and all is fucking good for once.

You sound very new to maintenance...I'd bet most here have been thru methadone clinics and Sub Drs several times. Lots of people sound like you when they first start...but the euphoria fades and your just stuck with another shitty habit that drags you down.
Why not be free of the whole mess? Sub lowers testosterone....maybe you've noticed already?

 

[Not Again]

I've noticed that since the taper started to now. Bowel movements have almost returned to normal and my sex drive is back up. Not to where it was in the before time but it's there.

I will drop to 1 mg tomorrow, if I find it's too much I will take a .5 later in the day. For the most part I'm going to try and follow the plan the rehab has for me and I better keep going to the end. There might be things they haven't told me yet.

I'm a big boy and can do what I want. If I take off and do it alone from this point what if I screw up? If I screw up they make you wait 3 months to start all over again, through this rehab.

For some reason I have it in my head that after I jump from .5 or what ever at day 3 or 4 when I'm feeling it I will take a 5/325 vike. ( I have like 10) Can't really get in trouble like that, can you?

I will take 2-3 vikes at the end to smooth out the landing. Maybe 1 in the morning and one at night, for 2 days? That idea sure looks good on paper.

I keep talking about the same stuff, but I have no where else to talk about it. I appreciate that there is a Mega thread here dedicated just for this.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^^^

The rush to get off to some people is that the longer you are on the suboxone, the more difficult it becomes to come off of it. If you stay on that stuff for years, you're going to have a really rough time detoxing off it, even if you do take it slow and do it correctly. Maintenance is not for everyone. Everyone has their own reasons for a quick taper or longterm treatment.. If that works for you, great.. but you're the one always preaching that everyone is different.. so there it is.

Oh, I could see how all see it differently. I just know how I have been affected thus far and COULD NOT BE HAPPIER! hell, I just signed a new lease today to a SICK apartment that I would NEVER BE ABLE TO DO BEFORE! isnt that great?

you know what it takes? it takes confidence, man. do you agree? getting clean is not easy, trust me.. I know! but you gotta want it and be confident in your attack. no bullshit, ya know!?!? and hell, if these bupe pills make me life bright and shiny for life, then so be it. man, people face way worse, so I am happy to have this drug save my fucking life.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You sound very new to maintenance...I'd bet most here have been thru methadone clinics and Sub Drs several times. Lots of people sound like you when they first start...but the euphoria fades and your just stuck with another shitty habit that drags you down.
Why not be free of the whole mess? Sub lowers testosterone....maybe you've noticed already?

new to maintenance? I've been on opiates for 10 years. I kicked an oxy 80 habit w/ done back in 04 before going away to jail and just detoxing that way. it was complete misery. the done made me miserable and getting up every day to do that makes me SICK to just think about it. I cant imagine ANYTHING like that.

am I new to bupe? well, if you wanna call 3+ years of back and forth use between bupe and dope new, then yes, I am new. but at the same time this IS the FIRST TIME I've used bupe and has been able to ride it out and stay clean for as long as I have. they say it fades, sure, let them say that. they say feelings change; sure, let them say that. people can say whatever they want. but what I am saying is this thing FUCKING SAVED MY LIFE SO FAR -- 4 months or not. it saved my fucking life. i was so twisted between 2G's of dope and bupe daily/every other day that it was whacky. I am happy to be alive w/ my OD's.

so yes, I am new to it all. I have no experience w/ drugs or life. I have no experience living on the street, living in sober homes, living in rehabs, detoxes, others couches, stung the fuck out ready to die, thinking about dying and what the best way out is.

but yes, I am NEW TO THIS ALL! i am just new.