Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[bwanajzj]

^So what you and Zigger are saying is that I can go out today, buy some heroin, snort it, and feel some nice effects, even though I dosed 2.8mg of Subutex this morning at around 6.30 AM (now 11 AM)? Hmmmm.... tempting... I've been off smack for 2 months after about 4 years of quite heavy but variable opiate abuse, but I relapsed once back in beginning of January, mainly out of curiosity... And it didn't do much at all, except land me back at square 1.
I've been tapering for a month from 16mg, so I guess I should have a much better chance of 'breaking through the Bupe' now than before. And considering that once I get off Subs, I won't want to relapse on either, I better get it out of the way now... I think the subs aren't doing what they are supposed to right now, because if they were, I wouldn't even be considering trying smack again... damnit... and the feeling I have right now all over my body is like all those times in the past where I ended up copping. Apparently I'm so close yet still so far from being clean, just when I thought I had a firm foot planted on the greener side of the playing field...

 

[BrokedownPalace]

^You could, although in the past when I was taking bupe I would need to wait about 18 hours in order to fully feel a shot of heroin. Your mileage may vary, of course, but if I did some dope like immediately after bupe it would be greatly diminished. 2.8mg is a low dose though so breaking thru shouldn't be that difficult. i am not advocating breaking your sobriety by any means but hypothetically, if you were to use today i would give it a good 12 hours after your bupe dose.

 

[LibertyFidelity]

I think it's a bit crap that I'm addicted to subs like some of you guys yet never experienced the amazing highs from H that I read about. I'm so envious! I only ever took DHC, Tramadol and Pod tea and I'm still in the same place most of you guys are. I was gonna score some H but the guy said it was a total waste of time if I was taking bupe as I wouldn't feel anything. I mean if you tell anyone you're on subs they automatically think you were a former dope addict anyway so I may as well try it but I can't even do that. So I didn't bother but it sucks that I don't at least have the amazing memories.

 

[Pegasus]

^Pod tea is not too different from heroin IMO... a bit itchier and way longer lasting, basically. You have similar memories!

 

[BrokedownPalace]

I think it's a bit crap that I'm addicted to subs like some of you guys yet never experienced the amazing highs from H that I read about. I'm so envious! I only ever took DHC, Tramadol and Pod tea and I'm still in the same place most of you guys are. I was gonna score some H but the guy said it was a total waste of time if I was taking bupe as I wouldn't feel anything. I mean if you tell anyone you're on subs they automatically think you were a former dope addict anyway so I may as well try it but I can't even do that. So I didn't bother but it sucks that I don't at least have the amazing memories.

Yeah. But consider yourself lucky you dont have all the horrible memories also associated with shooting dope daily. The grimy lifestyle, horrible w/d, the scene, the people.. ugh. I hate MMT sometimes but I sure am glad I ain't running around the hood every day still. I definitely would be dead if I was.

Also, heroin works just fine if you are on bupe. Just wait about 24 hours after taking bupe and a shot of dope works just fine. I take 75mg of methadone daily usually, and can still feel dope just fine on top of it..(As long as it isn't crap dope)

 

[bwanajzj]

@LibertyFidelity: I started my opiate career drinking a lot of pod tea... Where I was living, flower shops here and there often had 'fresh' poppies, and there was another place where one could buy a huge box of dried poppies for barely any money at all (sold amongst various decorative items). And I would say that some of my best opiate highs are from opium tea... With pod tea, you get all the goodies, morphine, codeine, thebaine, etc... whereas with heroin you basically only get morphine. So don't worry, except for missing out on heroin and all it's glory, you really haven't missed much at all. The tea is cheaper, and just as effective in the long run. Heroin is just easier, and more rock n roll. And I wouldn't say that all the heroin memories are amazing as such. At a point in time, I might have been able to convince myself that heroin was indeed amazing and that it made everything more amazing, but I think those days are over... Now it's mainly just a burden.

Anyways, I ended up copping today... got myself a 'quarter' gram of good street quality. Likely there was just under 0.2g or so. I snorted it all, but did so in portions of around 50mg (½ in each nostril), each portion spaced about an hour or so from the previous. I got pretty nice effects, even though I had dosed 2.8mg of Buprenorphine early in the morning, about 6 or 7 hours prior to taking the first line of dope. Compared to the last time I relapsed, over a month ago, the effects this time were much more prominent. But then again, I was at 16mg/day back then... I am really enjoying the mellow buzz right now, but definitely not worth it in the long run... Even just 20 minutes after taking a line, I want more, and now that the 0.2g is gone, I still want more, and it will always be the same evil loop of affairs with heroin, so I better just leave it be. Compared to Bupe, that holds me well all day and night, I can clearly tell that heroin doesn't work wonders for very long at all. Such a short duration of effect and in reality a mild intensity of effect, compared to how addictive it is, and how fast it will mess with your body functions... Of course effects would be intensified if I spared myself the Subs or by shot the smack straight in my vein, but I'll save that for when I'm old and living at a pensioners home.

Now I'm going to smoke a big quali-Moroccan hash joint to get a nice synergy going...

Fuck relapse dudes and dudettes... Let's just stick it to the Bupe and eventually get out of this mess... I just had an itch today that made me make a stupid mistake and waste my money... Of course I'm making the most of it, and I wont beat myself up for it, but really, first time I relapsed, I wasn't sure if I was right about it being a waste of time and effort to use heroin again after going into ORT, but second time around, I'm pretty sure... let's get the fuck out of this dumb game of self-satisfaction/destruction and our tendency to escape from the real world... Really, we are just cowards when we use opiates to get through the day. I know this is a provocative contradiction, but aren't we cowards for using any drugs at all? I mean, we feel that we NEED to use a drug to be able to do something or be somewhere, and in reality, all we're doing is escaping the moment, and trying to seize something that we will never grasp... no more escape, we must face life [and death] as it is... eat, fuck, reproduce, survive, don't hide...

Another little sub-topic and following question: EDIT: I posted it below by itself...

 

[bwanajzj]

Nodding off seems to be a goal for so many junkies. As in to do enough Bupe, heroin, oxy, etc. so that one nods off without having to make the effort to close ones eyes... But I realized that nodding off was sort of a nuisance for me, and that what I really enjoy most is being awake and conscious about the effects, thus making the most of the buzz... my question is, what are all you peoples opinion on this? Other than the physical addiction, is this why you keep hitting up the streets for more powder, pills or goo, or going to the clinic day after day to pick up your Bupe or Done? Nodding off is great fun, and it feels damn great to fall into that half-dreamy, half-awake state of euphoria and pleasant sensation, but is this why you do opiates? Or do you have alternative goals in terms of a desired state of opiate-fucked-up-ness?

 

[bwanajzj]

no more escape, we must face life [and death] as it is... eat, fuck, reproduce, survive, don't hide...

Ok... maybe a little escape... eat and drink, fuck, reproduce, survive drugs, hide when being chased...

 

[ThePharmicist]

^^^Dude I'm sorry that you relapsed, and like I said above even though for me it seems possible to use while on bupe and still get good effects it may not be possible for everyone. I made a really long run doing that and really fucked myself up to a point where the bupe wasn't really working anymore. I'd stick with "Fuck relapse" at this point if I was you, I wish you all the best in staying clean.

As far as my desired level of opioid-fucked-up-ness is concerned, I love the nod, but what I like more is a nice high that makes me more relaxed and sociable. I like having conversations with people when I'm feeling a good opioid buzz because I'm more open and receptive. I feel like I actually have an emotional being rather than intellectualizing everything like when I'm sober. In short, I love everything about opioids with the exception of withdrawal, tolerance and addiction. So weighing the pros and cons it only seems reasonable that I'd try to move on from the opioids. Even though they make me feel like a real person, I'm going to have to learn that on my own now.

 

[grizz88]

Sorry grizz, that wasn't directed at you in a bad way and I'm not trying to call you out, I'm just using what you said to show that our society needs to think a little clearer when it comes to how we treat people who struggle with drug addiction.

WORD UPP on that, KEEP FUCKIN BITCHES STAY ALIVE, society approves of that one

get addicted to pussy, there should be a thread on that... only problem is when your hot streak ends, and you turned into a dick because you were swimming in pussy, its a pretty bad WD HAH

day 11 feelin so gooood on no opes its crazy but it happens eventually, keep gettin jacked up yall good shit on the forum today

ANYONE CHECK OUT THE CHARLIE SHEEN INTERVIEWS OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS?? SORRY THIS BELONGS IN THE LAIR OF SHEEN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbsk127TnnE

 

[bwanajzj]

@ThePharmaDude... Don't be sorry I relapsed... it was a conscious decision, well knowing that I probably would regret it. I chose to cop and bump smack because A) I was curious whether 2.8mg Buprenorphine was enough to almost entirely block the desired effects from the heroin, B) 2.8mg Bupe is not enough to hold me straight within the framework of my current tapering scheme, and I should adjust it so that I minimize cravings and mild wd's, C) I sort of wanted to prove what I noticed last time I relapsed on heroin, which was the fact that I barely enjoyed it at all any more if I am true to myself.

Chapter 2: Curiosity killed the cat
Feedback on my curious comments and questions A-C...
A) No, 2.8mg bupe dosed 6 or 7 hours before ingestion of 0.2g of heroin over a period of 4 hours, is not enough to block the effects of heroin. Almost full effects were felt.
B) Tapering down 0.4mg/day from 16mg (stable at this dose for one month prior to cutting down) is probably too fast, if one wants to completely avoid wd's and the risk of relapsing.
C) Something tells me that heroin isn't all it's made out to be, if you can master a 'been there and done that' attitude towards it. If you have other things in your life that are more important, then don't waste your time wondering whether or not you can survive without heroin at least once in a while after many years of heavy use, and just leave it behind. If you can't say goodbye to opiates in general but have troublesome daily abuse habits, then just stick to Bupe, as it really is a much more forgiving drug than heroin, in my experience. And as for mixing the two, avoid it if you can.

I guess I was testing myself, testing my once DOC (later to be the worst addiction and bad habit that I've had), and testing the Bupe. A sort of reality check. For me, this whole ORT with Subutex has been sort of cloudy. Bupe creates the illusion that I am fine, and that I don't need heroin, while at the same time, it actually has profound effects on my mental and physical state of being and thus has a heavy influence on my choice of action. In order to make the jump off Bupe and opiates much easier altogether, I need to pass these sort of tests for myself, so that when the time comes around, I know for sure that I do not want to go back to using dope & co. That is why I said in an earlier post, that I better get the cop and dope out of the way while on subs, rather than waiting to try it after. Because if I had tried dope after jumping from subs, to ease the landing from bupe, then I'd be right back where I started. So please don't be sorry that I relapsed, be happy. For now. I'll let you know if you were right and I was wrong in the future

 

[grizz88]

@ThePharmaDude... Don't be sorry I relapsed... it was a conscious decision, well knowing that I probably would regret it. I chose to cop and bump smack because A) I was curious whether 2.8mg Buprenorphine was enough to almost entirely block the desired effects from the heroin, B) 2.8mg Bupe is not enough to hold me straight within the framework of my current tapering scheme, and I should adjust it so that I minimize cravings and mild wd's, C) I sort of wanted to prove what I noticed last time I relapsed on heroin, which was the fact that I barely enjoyed it at all any more if I am true to myself.

I guess I was testing myself, testing my once DOC (later to be the worst addiction and bad habit that I've had), and testing the Bupe. A sort of reality check. For me, this whole ORT with Subutex has been sort of cloudy. Bupe creates the illusion that I am fine, and that I don't need heroin, while at the same time, it actually has profound effects on my mental and physical state of being and thus has a heavy influence on my choice of action. In order to make the jump off Bupe and opiates much easier altogether, I need to pass these sort of tests for myself, so that when the time comes around, I know for sure that I do not want to go back to using dope & co. That is why I said in an earlier post, that I better get the cop and dope out of the way while on subs, rather than waiting to try it after. Because if I had tried dope after jumping from subs, to ease the landing from bupe, then I'd be right back where I started. So please don't be sorry that I relapsed, be happy. For now. I'll let you know if you were right and I was wrong in the future

Subs are really weird like that man, like at first you were like "oh my god, ive found the light" then slowly but surely your back kinda where you started... in a sense... my buddys comin off H right now first time in a year and ive been clean from it for about 8 months (got down like 3 times since 8) no needles tho, ever me and my buddy all snoots, and hes having a tough time, but I felt like i had that, AND soul crippling headaches... after just a months worth of subs (17, yeah, i know the exact number, because i made the last 3 last over two weeks) tapered the FUCK out of it.. no luck..

some guy posted on here earlier saying that "i tried doing subs with 3 days in between and still got hooked" thats real talk right there, kinda sums it all up

 

[bwanajzj]

^I'm not even off the subs yet, and this is my first try ever with ORT, but I already sense that subs are a bitch, a vicious bitch at that, and that I will need all the power I've got to tame her... I think I'm in for a shock when I hop off, as I went to ORT because I didn't think I could get through heroin wd's alone because at the time I was under the impression that they had to be the worst thing ever and to stay off for good required assistance... all the while hoping that it's true what people say about Buprenorphine - withdrawal symptoms are minimal compared to withdrawal from full-agonists such as heroin and morphine. Now I've lost hope in that, but luckily gained more hope in myself.

 

[cire113]

I IV oxy every 2 hours.. i do about 15+ shots a day including rinses..I have a serious problem right?

im going to see the BUPE DR tommorow thank god... im sick of this shit...

Being on bupe for me is gonna hopefully make me feel "somewhat" normal..
I fucking pray this dr perscribes me BUPE and doesnt make me "come back" so he can administer my first dose which is bs ... especially if i have experience in sub

What do people think of the myth that suboxone causes headaches and subutex dont?..


Nonetheless im done with this oxy shit and other opiates i just want to be stabalized on bupe and try to live somehwhat normal... its been hell lately i just had the worst cotton fever of all time and before the cotton fever hit i had taken a bunch of stimulant laxatives cause i had shit in 12 days... NONE theless the last 2-3 days of my life have been utter hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ThePharmicist]

I IV oxy every 2 hours.. i do about 15+ shots a day including rinses..I have a serious problem right?

im going to see the BUPE DR tommorow thank god... im sick of this shit...

Being on bupe for me is gonna hopefully make me feel "somewhat" normal..
I fucking pray this dr perscribes me BUPE and doesnt make me "come back" so he can administer my first dose which is bs ... especially if i have experience in sub

What do people think of the myth that suboxone causes headaches and subutex dont?..


Nonetheless im done with this oxy shit and other opiates i just want to be stabalized on bupe and try to live somehwhat normal... its been hell lately i just had the worst cotton fever of all time and before the cotton fever hit i had taken a bunch of stimulant laxatives cause i had shit in 12 days... NONE theless the last 2-3 days of my life have been utter hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope that everything works out for you. In my experience if you do it right, Suboxone should have you feeling almost back to normal immediately after the dose is administered (usually within 20-minutes).

If you're worried about him wanting you to come back the following day, you need to be sure that you're in sufficient withdrawal. I'm not sure about the doc's policies but most docs will either write you a script and tell you to wait till w/d or dose you in their office. You'll need to be in moderate to severe withdrawal to avoid precipitated withdrawals. I don't know if you know any of this or not, I'm just kinda giving some general info.

Here's a look at the COWS form, this might help you determine how long you'll have to wait until it's appropriate to dose. Hope this helps!

NSFW:

As for the Suboxone/Subutex headache question, I've heard claims about some people getting headaches from the naloxone in Suboxone, but I don't know how much truth there is to this. Most doctors won't prescribed Subutex because they believe it has a higher potential for abuse, despite the naloxone in Suboxone being completely inactive when used in any way other than IV. And even if you do IV Suboxone, as long as your stabilized on it, it won't make a difference.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think it's a bit crap that I'm addicted to subs like some of you guys yet never experienced the amazing highs from H that I read about. I'm so envious! I only ever took DHC, Tramadol and Pod tea and I'm still in the same place most of you guys are. I was gonna score some H but the guy said it was a total waste of time if I was taking bupe as I wouldn't feel anything. I mean if you tell anyone you're on subs they automatically think you were a former dope addict anyway so I may as well try it but I can't even do that. So I didn't bother but it sucks that I don't at least have the amazing memories.

Well "amazing memories" is iffy. As the other responses showed, a lot of the heavier addictive sides of opiates is not fun. It may be great / then always will be horrible.

I always said this quote to myself (and maybe a couple others) which I think describes opiates: however much pleasure you get from opiates, you'll get equal to or more in pain.

Right now I've leveled off at 0.5mg buprenorphine per day, so I'm at a plateau, but eventually I'll face the downside of my long-term use from this.

 

[SubDude]

Well "amazing memories" is iffy. As the other responses showed, a lot of the heavier addictive sides of opiates is not fun. It may be great / then always will be horrible.

I always said this quote to myself (and maybe a couple others) which I think describes opiates: however much pleasure you get from opiates, you'll get equal to or more in pain.

Right now I've leveled off at 0.5mg buprenorphine per day, so I'm at a plateau, but eventually I'll face the downside of my long-term use from this.

I've also tapered to .5mg but the last 2-3 times they've taken UA's the dr tells me they are NOT seeing any bupe in my piss test. I'm worried they're going to kick me out [it's a free program] because of this. Seeing dr tommorrow so I took 1mg today and will take another 2mg before seeing him tommorrow.

Anyone else have this "problem"? WTF does he think I'm staying on the program for?? I'm only prescribed 4mg and he wants to see me weekly if I go down below that... which means no pot smoking for a week or so after monthly piss test... at least for awhile. YUK!!!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I've also tapered to .5mg but the last 2-3 times they've taken UA's the dr tells me they are NOT seeing any bupe in my piss test. I'm worried they're going to kick me out [it's a free program] because of this. Seeing dr tommorrow so I took 1mg today and will take another 2mg before seeing him tommorrow.

Anyone else have this "problem"? WTF does he think I'm staying on the program for?? I'm only prescribed 4mg and he wants to see me weekly if I go down below that... which means no pot smoking for a week or so after monthly piss test... at least for awhile. YUK!!!

False negatives and all of that crap is why I would never willingly go through with a drug test. They are so unreliable that it's more like playing roulette with a doctor, or your employer, etc. because of shit like that.

I would instruct your doctor to have him watch you take some, wait an hour or two, take another UA, and then still be a false negative. Then I would have him never take your UA again since a perpetual false negative isn't telling him jack shit.

Agreeing to continue giving UA's, while they are all false negatives, says to me "you can harass me every month and I'll just have to continue attempt to what you believe is bullshitting you around doctor, whereas I'm just telling you the truth and you cannot believe a drug test would be so faulty when it really is that way".

I always said this quote to myself (and maybe a couple others) which I think describes opiates: however much pleasure you get from opiates, you'll get equal to or more in pain.

I don't know about all that. When I had IV fentanyl for severe pain, I barely felt high. They loaded me up full of it too so I could tell I was on it, it just wasn't "euphoric". To me, extreme pain makes opiates really boring because you're more concerned with not feeling pain than you are able to just sit back and enjoy the euphoria.

 

[muvolution]

Absolutely - extreme pain, really pain of any kind can nullify the euphoric effects of opiates. If you really are in pain it isn't that hard to come off of them.

I know everyone is different, but I came of a PM regime of oxymorphone, at least 60mg/ day with only about 2 weeks of suboxone @ <1mg/ day with no WD's. I've also gone off cold-turkey and at most it is a day of uncomfortableness, that's it.
And from what I can gather, OM is one of the most difficult opies to get off of, not to mention bupe.

BTW I almost fainted with joy when i told my new PM doctor I'd rather smoke weed than be on bupe or OM - he was super stoked on it, and in his words "Cannabis is great medicine"

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Absolutely - extreme pain, really pain of any kind can nullify the euphoric effects of opiates. If you really are in pain it isn't that hard to come off of them.

I know everyone is different, but I came of a PM regime of oxymorphone, at least 60mg/ day with only about 2 weeks of suboxone @ <1mg/ day with no WD's. I've also gone off cold-turkey and at most it is a day of uncomfortableness, that's it.
And from what I can gather, OM is one of the most difficult opies to get off of, not to mention bupe.

BTW I almost fainted with joy when i told my new PM doctor I'd rather smoke weed than be on bupe or OM - he was super stoked on it, and in his words "Cannabis is great medicine"

That's amazing man! I really hope that more doctors start to realize what a quality medicine cannabis really is.