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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

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dudes, there's no way that will actually happen. i'd love to be proven wrong btw

edit: not to mention, now that i've read it, that's not really what the article said. one guy who is not in a position to change any laws said that he supports decriminalization/legalisation, and his own party spoke up and said that's not their stance. i don't think it's really fair to interpret that as saying that the government is actually considering legalizing all drugs. maybe someday...
 
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Thanks CH. i just tried the parachuting method and i manged to get them down, but one of them did end up getting stuck in my throat which is what i feared, luckily i was expecting it and had taken a full breath before doing this so i didn't have an automatic reaction to inhale and end up choking on it like last time i parachuted something. Dentists always comment on how small of a mouth i have, maybe i have a small throat to? Either way, it just doesn't work for me. I have enough trouble swallowing large pills let alone a large pill made out of tissue paper filled with powder. These things weren't even that big..

and catcalls, maybe make a thread in DiTM if there isn't one already?
 
^I forgot to mention, wet your throat so they don't get stuck right before swallowing them. Like, make sure the part of your tongue that you're putting the parachute on is wet enough that the paper won't stick. Using rolling papers also helps, as they don't stick as easily and make crisper edged parachutes like a real pill (Kinda roll the kratom like a joint but short and fat like a capsule... This is probably the best way to make parachutes regardless of what kind of paper is used, honestly.)
 
Need advice on how to deal with the sub clinic

I went to the sub clinic for my first meeting on wednesday, because I want to enroll in subutex treatment for my heroin addiction. My general patterns of addiction are as follows:
For almost two years, I have been experimenting with heroin, snorting for the most part, but also chasing the dragon on very rare occasions. In the beginning, I would use between 100-250mg/day, but it quickly escalated to 0.5g and over, with maximum daily dosages reaching about 2.0g. I have had periods ranging between 1 week-3 months, where I have been clean, and numerous times, I have experienced the full force of the dope sickness. I thought that I had mastered my addiction during the summer of 2010, where I had been clean for 3 months due to work abroad and field courses for university. When I got back from a busy summer of field work/courses in septemeber, I relapsed on heroin, and have been using daily since. These days I manage to get by on 0.5g, but that includes waking up in a shitty state, and constantly having to tell myself not to go all out and finish my stash. It would really suck if I used too much one day, and on christmas day with the family ended in full blown wd's. During periods of not using heroin, I tend to drink a lot on occasion(2-3 times per week), and smoke spliffs in moderation. Also, before starting on heroin, I used to drink a lot of potent opium tea, and I have experimented with kratom extracts, morphine, codeine and methadone. But all these never really got me hooked like heroin has, but of course were part of the journey towards addiction.

So I am starting on subutex the 27th of december. My main reason for not just going through the wd's of dope is that I am at the brink of getting my bachelor's degree, and I will compromise this if I go into wd's now, considering that I still have a shitload of work to do on my bachelor's project, with the deadline coming up mid-january, and after submission, I have to defend it with an oral presentation of my work. So dope sickness, no thank you. I also have this problem that I am fine when I am in natural surroundings, usually abroad during holiday or field work, and when I am in these settings, I barely think about opiates. I always end up relapsing when I have to get back into the daily routine of things at home, work, lectures, homework, etc. So I need to find out for myself that I can actually make it through a day at work without heroin, and this I will do first by maintainance treatment until I finish my bachelors, and get started on my masters, and then I will taper off over a month or two.

How do you go about getting what you want from the sub clinic? They have already recommended an external intensive treatment programme, where I have to give up school and work for a while to conquer my addiction. Although this might be beneficial in some ways, it is really the opposite of what I need. Because if I go away and get clean, like I have done while on field work or holiday, then when I get back to the real world, I am just back at square zero again, and will probably relapse. This seemed hard for the doc and counsellor at the clinic to comprehend, and I am afraid that they will end up signing me up for some program that really wont help me at all, and that I will ditch it and end up back on heroin. Plus my doc and counsellor have no idea what its really like to be a heroin addict. I mean they've worked with addiction and so on, but have never been hooked on junk themselves, so who are they to give me advice, really? I also have an issue with trust with the clinic personell, and they need to know all sorts of personal details, which I am reluctant to tell them. But I know it's for my own good if they can paint a picture of who I am and how my addiction has unfolded over the years. I also have an issue taking advice from people who are A) generally not as smart as myself, B) have personality traits that I have contempt for, and C) haven't been in the same position as myself. In other words, I don't like the personality of my counsellor, and I think that I am smarter than him, and he hasn't been a heroin addict himself. He has been a speed addict, and is now cured and working for the clinic helping others. I really hate this too, because he acts as if he is some self-proclaimed angel, who has been through it all and now wants to help others through addiction in ways that he managed to cope with it. For one, he has no idea who I am really, and secondly, I hate that he automatically thinks that what worked for him will work for me. Just wanted to add that take the word 'hate' in the various contexts with a grain of salt... I am exagerating a bit, but nonetheless, it was the first word that came to mind, so it stays.

What I want from the clinic is as follows, and I would like advice on how to get it:
-I want to be given subutex for a week at a time, even better if I can be allowed to pick it up at a pharmacy.
-I want to have to come to the clinic for sessions as little as possible, maximum for an hour once a week.
-I actually just want to deal with the doctor, and not the self-proclaimed angel getting in the way of my medicine.
-I want to control the situation, and not let them control it. I want to be the one who chooses when to start tapering, in other words, the tempo should be at my command.
-I need them to know that I have resources that are much more helpful and reliable than they are(e.g. Bluelight), and that I actually know more than they think about addiction and the pharmacology of opiates. Basically, they should stop treating me like a stupid child, just because I am a heroin addict.
-Basically, they are just supposed to give me the meds, and other than that leave me alone, until I ask for their guidance or help.
-My plan is to do maintainance with subs for about two months, and during that time get started on some sports activities, and get into the routine of studying/working without heroin. This may require a few months extra, until I feel like school is going well, and that I have activites that I am enjoying doing in my free time. Once my life is stable in that way, I will start tapering. And hopefully all of this can lead me to being clean within the next 4-6 months. After that I want to stay away from opiates and alcohol, and only do other drugs that do not lead to me wanting opiates to handle the comedown/downside of the drugs. Alcohol hangovers for example make me really wanna get high on smack.

All these worries came from just 1 meeting, but I still want to go through with it, so I hope I can get some advice from those of you who have been in maintainance treatment, and have worked with or as addiction counsellors.
 
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Case and Pegasus - i don't get all this gelcap and parachute business. why not just mix with water and chug? works great for me. is it a taste thing? my stuff doesn't taste that bad. much better than pod tea at least.
 
Then again, clearly there ISNT a of research done on pharmaceuticals. Do a good search for recalled prescription drugs that had huge health consequences. There's a ton of them...

And james, it is that bad, because their intentions obviously were not to "fool" everyone into getting clean in order to make the world a better place, joy happiness, blahblhablah, etc. It was for the money.



^^^ Exactly!!!
 
Case and Pegasus - i don't get all this gelcap and parachute business. why not just mix with water and chug? works great for me. is it a taste thing? my stuff doesn't taste that bad. much better than pod tea at least.

Two things-- 1) Most kratom does not mix well with water, and 2) Most kratom tastes absolutely horrible. I don't understand how pod tea could be worse tasting to you, honestly!
 
And thanks CH, it's been a full 99.5 hours since i last took suboxone, you think .1, or maybe even .05 would really make that big of a dent in how i feel? Assuming it came to this, which i will do everything to avoid. (and we're talking about taking it 8 hours from now if that makes a difference so like 4 1/2 days totalish.)

Case... I really hope you don't feel the need to take subs after 5 days off... especially if you are planning on future independence from opiates. I believe it would be a step backwards... I'm sure CH advice is good and true but think he's in a different situation than you... in that you're on a taper off.

Anyone checking your BP while on the clonodine? When I switched from methadone to subs... i was in patient and on clonodine. I was in bed for about 2 1/2 days and the nurse came every 4 hrs and made me stand up for BP check. Don't remember the numbers, but it was really LOW. I think the top number was like in the 80's??

Your doing great but once again I'm concerned if you can continue on and finish up [your goal] after the kratom is gone. Please keep us updated on the details.
 
What I want from the clinic is as follows, and I would like advice on how to get it:
-I want to be given subutex for a week at a time, even better if I can be allowed to pick it up at a pharmacy.
-I want to have to come to the clinic for sessions as little as possible, maximum for an hour once a week.
-I actually just want to deal with the doctor, and not the self-proclaimed angel getting in the way of my medicine.
-I want to control the situation, and not let them control it. I want to be the one who chooses when to start tapering, in other words, the tempo should be at my command.
-I need them to know that I have resources that are much more helpful and reliable than they are(e.g. Bluelight), and that I actually know more than they think about addiction and the pharmacology of opiates. Basically, they should stop treating me like a stupid child, just because I am a heroin addict.
-Basically, they are just supposed to give me the meds, and other than that leave me alone, until I ask for their guidance or help.
-My plan is to do maintainance with subs for about two months, and during that time get started on some sports activities, and get into the routine of studying/working without heroin. This may require a few months extra, until I feel like school is going well, and that I have activites that I am enjoying doing in my free time. Once my life is stable in that way, I will start tapering. And hopefully all of this can lead me to being clean within the next 4-6 months. After that I want to stay away from opiates and alcohol, and only do other drugs that do not lead to me wanting opiates to handle the comedown/downside of the drugs. Alcohol hangovers for example make me really wanna get high on smack.

All these worries came from just 1 meeting, but I still want to go through with it, so I hope I can get some advice from those of you who have been in maintainance treatment, and have worked with or as addiction counsellors.
I think there must be a better location for this post and I am afraid it is going to get lost here but I just wanted to reply to you because your post speaks to me.
this is not a personal attack so please don't take it as such. as an objective outsider peering into what you have shared, I have to say that it sounds like classic junkie mentality. addict behavior. you want to control the situation. i think you might need to work on surrendering just a little bit. perhaps your compulsion to use is directly related to your inability to control your environment on a daily basis. or it may just be one facet of it.
i just started sub therapy yesterday and it is totally different where i live. I went ion on Wednesday and was given a scrip for subutex and told to return in full blown withdrawal on friday. yeah. right. you're going to send me home to my junkie boyfriend and i'm not gonna speed dial my dealer as soon as i feel like shit?
they definitely have a hands-off approach here. anyway, did the best i could which was to use right up until 10 pm night before induction and then stay up almost all night without using in an attempt to bring on withdrawals. i only measured a 16 on the COWS scale when i did come in. but he made me wait around til i measured 21 and started the therapy. the only real caveat is that i am not allowed to use OC or heroin while i am on subs.
maybe you just need to move to another clinic? or try being flexible and jumping through a few hoops.
good luck.
 
I've always wondered this, and I could use some advice on it.

If you're on subs, say 4mg a day, and after your one time daily dose you do heroin IV, feel it a little, are you safe to take a sub the next day as normal? technically the sub should still be ones system right?

I'm not sure if it's safe to take it or not, since I got maybe 1/5th of the effect i normally would've gotten from the H. Do I now have to wait 12-24 hours again?
 
bwanajzj - i'd find a new doc if the current one is too high maintenance. you should not have to enroll in a program or anything that distracts you from school just to be put on sub. find a doc who will just give it to you and take it from there. i think concentrating on getting your degree, having something real and useful to work toward will serve you much better in your goal of staying clean. Once you start sub you'll probably know if you need further meetings or programs etc. some do, no harm there, but many find they can just go on with their lives and don't have too much of an itch to use. guess what i'm saying is start sub first, see how it works for you, then make further commitments if you have to. either way, good luck.

ps: what are you studying?
 
I've always wondered this, and I could use some advice on it.

If you're on subs, say 4mg a day, and after your one time daily dose you do heroin IV, feel it a little, are you safe to take a sub the next day as normal? technically the sub should still be ones system right?

I'm not sure if it's safe to take it or not, since I got maybe 1/5th of the effect i normally would've gotten from the H. Do I now have to wait 12-24 hours again?

this is a question that has no real solid answer. everyone is different so theres no telling how your body would respond to this situation. but in my experience, yes, you should still have sub on your brains receptors, allowing you to continue dosing. but to be careful(like you always should be) when you start dosing sub again, start with like 0.2 mg doses and then wait 30 min or so to see how you feel....do this until your positive you are in no danger of getting PW's.
 
I've always wondered this, and I could use some advice on it.

If you're on subs, say 4mg a day, and after your one time daily dose you do heroin IV, feel it a little, are you safe to take a sub the next day as normal? technically the sub should still be ones system right?

I'm not sure if it's safe to take it or not, since I got maybe 1/5th of the effect i normally would've gotten from the H. Do I now have to wait 12-24 hours again?

I've gone on two day binges, then gone back to sub without any problem. of course, those 'binges' were nothing more than an excercise in frustration and humiliation as i did not get much of a high. since you've got all that sub in your system still, the H never had much of a chance to recreate your tolerance. of course, i have to say: everbody difernt
 
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