Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[Aphex747]

i have a questions regarding bupe.... i was given a few of the 8 mg suboxone (orange) hexagon shaped tablets from a friend who was in detox. now, ive never in my life has an opiate dependency, but one time for shits and giggles, i tried part of one, subligualy. i did like 1.5 mg og it, less than 1/4 and let me tell you, that is the sickest i have ever been in my ENTIRE life. i spent about 24 hours straight in bed, and getting up to hurl my guts out like clockwork every 30 minutes. it was seriously comparative to doing a near OD amount of DXM combined with being on a strong opiate.

PLEASE ANYONE can you tell me why this was? am i allergic to bupe, did i take too much? or if you take bupe and dont have any opiate metabloites in your body, is it supposed to induce utter sickness?? (im talking about heaving so hard from the depths of my stomach that i was shaking trying to get it all out, pouring sweat, the whole 9 yards)

 

[tyrael]

No, it shouldn't make someone sick. What's your experiences with opiates in general? One can be hypersensitive, it's not unheard of.

Buprenorphine is a relatively strong opiate, so it doesn't surprise me someone with no tolerance/experience got sick from 8mg. Bupe in general isn't really famous for it's euphoria/recreational value to begin with.

 

[Aphex747]

^well, id consider myself a light opiate user. ive done 10 mg percocet maybe 10 times, maybe 200 or 300 mg time released morphine in my life. and of course, ive done vicodin most, not a ton, but ive gone through a few hundered in my life (5 or 6 scrips). ive never had any physical dependency but i always have got sick if i take too many vicodins. i guess i do get queasier on opiates than your average user. but the sickness i got from bupe seemed like i had a 104 degree flu virus. ive never spent that much time being sick in bed in my life, lol. and all i took was the bottom quarter of an 8mg. id say i only did 1.5 mg but im not sure how consistent that company is on equally seperating the doses amongst the tablet.

this has been a mystery to me ever since. i still have 2 or 3 left but im afraid to get that sick again. if i could figure out what went wrong, it would mean alot to me.

 

[Trigeminal]

I have been trying to quit Suboxone after almost three years on it and it's tough as hell, I weened down way too rapidly because I could barely get them anymore and don't have the money or insurance for a doctor. I went from 4mg a day to 2mg a day in a week and now I have 1mg for one more day before I either find another one or have to work through the weekend in withdrawals, which I don't know how the hell I'm going to just, I just hope I don't lose my job. I really hate how long the Suboxone withdrawals are, it's excruciating. Some people have even told me that it is worse than Methadone withdrawals, but I have no idea if there is any truth to that considering I never withdrew from Methadone.

I wish I would have quit this shit when I was collecting unemployment pay, now I have to try to do it while working a tough and shitty job and the anxiety alone is almost unbearable. I have been thinking of getting back on pain killers because at this point I'm really thinking that 5 days of Oxycodone withdrawals would be better than this, but considering the insane price of them around here I would never be able to afford it for more than a few days. I also thought about going to the Methadone clinic and trying to ween myself down with Methadone, but after reading all of the horror stories about it I think that would probably make things worse.

That's too high of a dose to jump from. You have to taper more. I used suboxone for 3 years as well. I tapered from 2 mg a day to 1.5, to 1, to .5, to .250. Always waiting at least 3 days per cut. I jumped at .25 and it was painless.

There is also no fucking way that buprenorphine withdrawal is worse than methadone withdrawal. Bupe is only a partial agonist. Whoever told you that is an idiotic, whiny pussy.

Anyway, if you're struggling too much with the withdrawal, take some loperamide.

 

[Swain]

That's too high of a dose to jump from. You have to taper more. I used suboxone for 3 years as well. I tapered from 2 mg a day to 1.5, to 1, to .5, to .250. Always waiting at least 3 days per cut. I jumped at .25 and it was painless.

There is also no fucking way that buprenorphine withdrawal is worse than methadone withdrawal. Bupe is only a partial agonist. Whoever told you that is an idiotic, whiny pussy.

Anyway, if you're struggling too much with the withdrawal, take some loperamide.

I agree totally. The only people who seem to really complain about bupe/bupe withdrawals are people who are still using full agonists and constantly switching back and forth, or people who try to detox at 2mg+.

 

[Paulination]

hey ive been putting film strips into nasal spray my question is does the nasal spray take away the bioavaibility at like is you just snorted a suboxone pill?

 

[Znegative]

It should be similar to sniffing the pill, I would imagine that it would just take a bit more patience, as you don't want to just continuously squirt the suboxone up your nose (or else a good portion of it will drip down your throat, and be absorbed orally which has a pathetic BA-10%).

 

[Swain]

^well, id consider myself a light opiate user. ive done 10 mg percocet maybe 10 times, maybe 200 or 300 mg time released morphine in my life. and of course, ive done vicodin most, not a ton, but ive gone through a few hundered in my life (5 or 6 scrips). ive never had any physical dependency but i always have got sick if i take too many vicodins. i guess i do get queasier on opiates than your average user. but the sickness i got from bupe seemed like i had a 104 degree flu virus. ive never spent that much time being sick in bed in my life, lol. and all i took was the bottom quarter of an 8mg. id say i only did 1.5 mg but im not sure how consistent that company is on equally seperating the doses amongst the tablet.

this has been a mystery to me ever since. i still have 2 or 3 left but im afraid to get that sick again. if i could figure out what went wrong, it would mean alot to me.

If your tolerance iss o low that you have only taken a 10mg perc a handful of times the reason you got sick off bupe is you essentially overdosed. Bupe is VERY powerful. I saw someone with no opiate tolerance (which is basically your situation as well) eat 2mg and he was barfing for like 30 hours. I shoot a bundle a day when I am using dope and 1mg daily holds me.

If you take 10mg perc and rarely you should not even take suboxone and if you do you should take no more than .25mg

 

[Aphex747]

^thats exactly what happened then, i couldnt stop throwing up for almost 2 days straight, was awful. never again, lol

 

[DeLee]

Anybody reading this thread who has came off of Methadone to Bupe ?

Im on 120mg methadone / day and I am contemplating a switch to Buprenorphine instead.
If you have experience, how long did you taper the methadone and how long did you wait until you took your first Sub dose and did
you get instant relief ?

Thanks

 

[Tony Williams]

well how I see it

120 day 1 DOSE THIS AND NOW CT
60mg (in your sys(
30mg Think this is the most to be on for a switch)
15 mg now is the day, start bupe low 2-4mg (I would snort them and do half morn and half night) if you too 8mg a couple days ago after3-5 hr you'd e dyin. *I hate that exo*

I cannot be sure it willl work out skydiving, maybe slowly drop doss.

Anyway - besure you'll have heroin about if prewds ht.

BTW you might wanna not do what Isay as 120mg is alot and our charts claim you'd be 28-32mg so it MIGHT not work for your

 

[Znegative]

^CT will not work like that. Your dose might be 120mg/day, but you have to take into account that the long half life means that the methadone is actuall building up in your system.

Methadones half life is approximately 24 hours, so here's a quick and easy example.
day 1-120mg of methadone consumed
Day2-60mg left of Day 1's dose, another 120mg is consumed, so total ammount of methadone at this point is 180mg.

The best thing to do is to taper down to around 30mg. You can drop down usually to around 60mg with little problems, but when your at that dose, you should wait at least 1 week to stabalize at each new lowered dose. When you've stabalized at 30mg, you should skip your methadone for two or three days (possibly switch to a short acting full agonist just to keep the withdrawals to a minimum) and then switch over to subutex/suboxone.

 

[honeypie3x3]

Just echoing what you 2 have said. I used subutex in 06, suboxone in 07,08,09...each time I got off I literally went from 2mg to 1.5, to 1, .5,.250 and at least 3 days at each dose.
Once my doc was busted, for seeing too many patients. Had to come to an abrupt stop. Had (2) 8mg films left.
The first film I cut into 6 not so even pieces, lined them up largest to smallest. 1st day I took the larger piece, 6th day the smallest.
then with the second strip, using magnifier and tiny cuticle scissors...I cut it into 12 pieces. Again , not so even..
largest to smallest again.
I jumped off at that smallest piece, and it was not nearly as bad as I feared.

My best friend jumped at 3mg, and she said she hugged her pillow for 5 days, felt like she was staring the devil in the face....
she is allergic to loperamide so i am sure that made it worse for her. Also my friend was bouncing between full agonist/partial. So that probably made it worse for her too.

 

[DeLee]

^CT will not work like that. Your dose might be 120mg/day, but you have to take into account that the long half life means that the methadone is actuall building up in your system.

Methadones half life is approximately 24 hours, so here's a quick and easy example.
day 1-120mg of methadone consumed
Day2-60mg left of Day 1's dose, another 120mg is consumed, so total ammount of methadone at this point is 180mg.

The best thing to do is to taper down to around 30mg. You can drop down usually to around 60mg with little problems, but when your at that dose, you should wait at least 1 week to stabalize at each new lowered dose. When you've stabalized at 30mg, you should skip your methadone for two or three days (possibly switch to a short acting full agonist just to keep the withdrawals to a minimum) and then switch over to subutex/suboxone.

10mg per week from 120mg to 60mg maybe and then 10mg every 2nd week down to 30mg's.
Or could I taper faster with no real pain?

What I really would like to know is if I get instant relief from the Suboxone dose I would be taking on day 2 or 3 without any methadone?

Or do it happen gradually after a couple of days on the Suboxone because Methadone is such powerfull opioid so it binds hard to the receptors..
Anybody who has any knowledge on that?

 

[Effy_Smokes]

(sorry if this has been asked/answered... I could not find anything about this specificially)

I am new here and I have been struggling with a heavy opioid addiction for the past 7-8 years now and I am really looking to get into a subutex program. I have tried the suboxone before and it just made me feel super queasy the whole time....the subutex on the other hand was a godsend! It took all my wds away and I was able to work and handle my "normal" life. Of course I was getting these from a friend and not a doctor, and when she went MIA I was back to my old pals (or pills). I have seen many suboxone doctors but none that offer subutex exclusively. I am afraid if I go in and ask for something specific they won't give it to me and in the years I have been struggling, the subutex is the only thing that has kept me straight for long amounts of time. I am also a heavy pot smoker which I would realllllly rather not have to give up to get into a sub program but I'm afraid they won't take me if I test positive for pot. I'm at my end with these pills and just want to get on subutex so I can begin my Masters program with no worries. Any insight from all of you knowledgeable wonderful people would be greatly appreciated!!
effy

 

[adder]

If too long, go to the last paragraph, please.

I've been split-dosing methadone for almost 3 years now. I tapered down to 10mg in the morning / 5mg in the evening. I had a few problems with i.v. injections but it didn't spoil my methadone regimen. Anyway, today for instance I had to take 28mg in total to feel "all right". I'm cool with 15mg a day when I smoke marijuana. I use it especially for sleep because I suffer from insomnia and I'm also addicted to clonazepam so nothing will work (neuroleptics and/or 1st generation antihistamines are an option but that's rather unpleasant, leaves you somnolent on the following day and there are other side effects).

I'm going to try to talk to a psychiatrist in my city one last time on Thursday. He knows I take methadone as he's one of psychiatrists in this country who turned me down and decided not to help me at all. I want to switch from methadone to Suboxone. I think switching from 15mg of methadone a day, especially when I need split-dosing (I get withdrawal symptoms after less and less time), wouldn't be a problem for me. I just wonder if the guy gives me the proper dose of buprenorphine. When I took it on my own, I needed like 16-20mg to feel fine. I want to switch to buprenorphine because I'm tired of getting this stupid syrup which does nothing for my mood and does nothing for morphine cravings...

The problem is my insomnia. I'm not allowed to take anything causing dependence (then I shouldn't even live but...), e.g. they will test me for benzodiazepines (this guy knows I'm addicted to clonazepam but he doesn't understand it's a hard and a long process to taper off it), marijuana, amphetamine, methamphetamine, heroin, morphine, etc. I know that this rule isn't strictly obeyed. Most junkies selling syrup near the entrance to the give-away point always fail the tests but they're "veterans" on the program and this psychiatrist who is also the chief of the program in my city does nothing to clean the program and make space for people who really want to get back to life that resembles normal life at least a bit. I know that Suboxone program isn't really popular so I thought I could get this medicine. If I could only get the right dose, I would eventually not have to pay for something that is supposed to be for free. Most of these junkies don't even have insurance, they're liars and thieves, and they show no interest in getting back to the normal society. I've got no idea why this psychiatrist keeps them on the program even though he knows about everything.


Anyway, I would like to ask all of program participants if the rules about taking other psychoactive substances is so strict on their program. I know I would be kept on eye for like 2 months (= the time I would probably have to come every day to get my Suboxone). But after that? I'm not asking because I abuse a lot of drugs and I want to do it being on the program. It's just that I know benzodiazepines probably fucked me up for good and I will have problems falling asleep for the rest of my life. I don't find the sleepy effect of C. sativa indica to be a problem, I don't really find marijuana to be a program for me, I just can't sleep otherwise (well, brotizolam or a lot of estazolam is another way out but then my tolerance to benzodiazepines gets high again after just one use). I wonder if my situation would change after spending some time on the program. I want to get off clonazepam totally (I was at 2mg until I've taken 7mg today), but let's be honest - opioids aren't really drugs that are good as sleep aids (well, taken at night they rather make you nod out and wake up all the time...).

So what are your experiences? I know the situation in the US and in Poland is totally different in actually all aspects but maybe some people from Europe will also share. Thanks in advance.

 

[i are spectre]

my 3 year stint with suboxone is coming to an end, in a rather strange way.

so im headed to my doctors office to find a note on the inside of the glass door. he's "very sick" and out of town for an unknown length of time. word on the street around here is that hes on another booze bender. apparently the guys quite the drinker (i refrain from 'alcoholic' because that's just another term that really stand for anything depending on who you are and your past experiences).

anyway, the sub doc is gone. he's out. it's been over a month and he's just ditched the place. phones off the grid. place is shutdown.

now some would say hey find a new doc, but in 2 weeks im headed far up north to finish my chem engineering degree. there's two sub docs up there. one is about 75 miles away and the other is about 10 miles away but requires intensive substance abuse counseling thats about 20 miles away. thing is, i dont have a car. no license. it will take a lot of money to get that back and thats just not going to happen in a month or two. maybe six if i rip on it.

anywho, i cant venture 75 miles every month and dish out the appointment fee along with the strip costs. i have to get off suboxone!

here's the plan. take 0.5mg doses as little as possible, right off the bat. that's what i've been doing since yesterday. that should get me down quick, hopefully to about 2mg a day. i've been at 8mg for the past year or so. when that runs out (hopefully i can make it to 0.5mg every 3-4 days) then i should be good, but if i can't get that far (i dont know how much i have left at the pharmacy) then its kratom and tramadol time.

how does everyone feel about the jump from sub to another substance? i've withdrawled from tramadol and it was pretty bad. short, but bad. kratom i havnt. i want to stay away from loperamide. im thinking tramadol would have a shorter withdrawal that kratom? or perhaps one day tramadol, one day katom, back and forth while decreasing doses may help. aye this will be rough.

the kicker is this is going to happen DURING the semester, a 3rd year chemical engineering student, withdrawing from suboxone that which has got him this far today.

thanks for reading!

 

[Znegative]

I've never used kratom, but I would defiantely think it would be better than tramadol for bupe withdrawals, as tramadol works as an SNRI as well as a weak opioid (meaning you'd have to withdrawal from the SNRI effects once you put down the tramadol).

How much suboxone do you have left, and how have you been taking it (meaning, are you dividing your dose in two, morning and evening, or have you been taking the whole 8mg at once?)? When I was on bupe, I found it pretty easy to taper down from 8mg to 4mg. Below 4mg becomes a bit more difficult, but it's still not too hard.

What I would do, if you have enough sub leftover, is a taper as follows:

Note: Buprenorphine takes about 12 days until it is flushed completely from the system. When I was tapering from suboxone, I had the luxury to take as long as I wanted (I realize you probably don't have that ability). I found that the most comfortable and painless way to taper was to stay on each lowered dose for around 12-14 days in order to completely shed the previous built up half lifes.

(starting from 8mg)

Day 1,2,3:6mg
Day 3-10:4mg (its important to really stabalize at this dosage IMO, as it is generally believed to be right at the cieling effect. At 4mg/day, withdrawals will kick in faster, and their is usually for most people a more noticeable mood lift with each dosage, as the buprenorphine blood levels are dropping and rising at steeper rates. I also recomend splitting your dosage in 2 if you dose once daily.)
Day 10-13: 3mg
Day 13-20: 2mg
Day 20-27: 1mg
etc, etc..

 

[i are spectre]

ive managed to get down to about 1mg a day very quickly. i realize this may bite me a bit but i found it much easier to get down to 1mg as quickly as possible. that helps in so many ways.

ive been eating a bit of tramadol and i found some hydrocodone from a couple years ago to ease the transition from 8mg to 1mg.

i basically just wait until the sweats and feeling of "hardness" i call it (or heavyness, almost a metallic feeling to me), watery eyes and yawning, and then take the smallest piece i can rip off the strip.

i want to stay away from loperamide, that seems to bring more problems than solve. the gastrointestinal effects are more than gnarley. perhaps ill use extremely small amounts.

getting to 1mg is the easy part. it's about a week or two after that. and you recommend kratom as the end substance rather than tramadol aye? i havnt found a good report on the length of withdrawal from kratom. i know tramadol is only about 2 or 3 days for the worst of it. but it's really bad, mentally especially.

 

[Tommyboy]

(sorry if this has been asked/answered... I could not find anything about this specificially)

I am new here and I have been struggling with a heavy opioid addiction for the past 7-8 years now and I am really looking to get into a subutex program. I have tried the suboxone before and it just made me feel super queasy the whole time....the subutex on the other hand was a godsend! It took all my wds away and I was able to work and handle my "normal" life. Of course I was getting these from a friend and not a doctor, and when she went MIA I was back to my old pals (or pills). I have seen many suboxone doctors but none that offer subutex exclusively. I am afraid if I go in and ask for something specific they won't give it to me and in the years I have been struggling, the subutex is the only thing that has kept me straight for long amounts of time. I am also a heavy pot smoker which I would realllllly rather not have to give up to get into a sub program but I'm afraid they won't take me if I test positive for pot. I'm at my end with these pills and just want to get on subutex so I can begin my Masters program with no worries. Any insight from all of you knowledgeable wonderful people would be greatly appreciated!!
effy

Unfortunately I have heard that subutex is becoming less and less prescribed here in the US (not sure if that's where you are from). What dose are you on? The side effects get worse with higher doses, so maybe that is the issue.

ive managed to get down to about 1mg a day very quickly. i realize this may bite me a bit but i found it much easier to get down to 1mg as quickly as possible. that helps in so many ways.

ive been eating a bit of tramadol and i found some hydrocodone from a couple years ago to ease the transition from 8mg to 1mg.

i basically just wait until the sweats and feeling of "hardness" i call it (or heavyness, almost a metallic feeling to me), watery eyes and yawning, and then take the smallest piece i can rip off the strip.

i want to stay away from loperamide, that seems to bring more problems than solve. the gastrointestinal effects are more than gnarley. perhaps ill use extremely small amounts.

getting to 1mg is the easy part. it's about a week or two after that. and you recommend kratom as the end substance rather than tramadol aye? i havnt found a good report on the length of withdrawal from kratom. i know tramadol is only about 2 or 3 days for the worst of it. but it's really bad, mentally especially.

Reminds me of when I first went away to school while being prescribed 32mg of suboxone (I took 16mg usually) and thinking I would have no problem finding a doctor 7 hours away from home in a rural area. Once I found out I wasn't going to be able to get an appointment it was pretty late into my last script, but I wasn't too worried since back then the doctors said that suboxone withdrawals were very minor. I went from my 16mg to nothing in around 10-14 days, then kicked without anything. Boy did that suck.

Anyway, on the bright side I was back to normal after 2 weeks, and had gotten a lot better after the first week. A lot of people say the withdrawals last a lot longer but maybe since I was away at school and having a good time I didn't notice them as much. See if you can just taper down the suboxone and not take anything after it. The school health center or some other local doctor might prescribe you clonidine, so maybe tell them you need it for anxiety due to presentations. If that fails tell them the truth. I always liked being brutally honest with the doctors at the college health center since it's like another world there. I got gabapentin for my withdrawals from them without even asking, but the doctor knew what was up with me.